On the "foothills" concept, there's certainly plenty of real-world precedent for them, but it's not a hard and fast rule - escarpment cliff lines, for instance, and plateaux, or features such as rift valleys, where you can get a dramatic change in terrain on a sharp-ish line. Here, foothills would make sense; I just wasn't sure from the variations between Maps 1-3 what the overall terrain here was meant to be.
Maps 2 and 3 looked similar in size from my by-eye estimate yesterday, certainly. I'd suggest just cancelling Map 2. No need to renumber the rest for comments here though; just note that Map 2 no longer exists. Map 3 has much more detail on already. Might be worth adding a "Growl Plains" label to Map 3 though.
I was thinking last night about making Map 2 10 miles across, or maye 20 miles across. Map 1 as I posted earlier is 42 miles across.
Looking at Map 3 in comparison with its scale today, I suspect some of the symbols should be larger. For instance, the Shoro Town symbol is barely 200 feet across on Map 3, yet on its own dedicated map (Map 9), it's width is about 600 feet. On Map 3, even including all the fields to the east stretches the area involved to barely 400 feet. Map 9 suggests the eastern fields start only around 700 feet from the west wall, for example. Neither the Moo (Map 7), Zosh (12) nor Bell (6) village maps have scales yet, so I'm not sure how their symbol-sizes on Map 3 relate to this, and I've not checked the other maps for similar size comparisons at all.
Closer you get, the better the detail. Things can change with smaller scale maps.
Shouldn't the Castle Defender map (Map 4) have a lot more trees on it? It's in what seems quite dense forest on Map 1.
Fields of fire. The guard towers are more hidden so they can aid the castle.
Does that mean there should be just one Dungeon City Entrance label on Map 3, saying "Dungeon City Entrance Ruins" now? Or are there really two entrances about 600 feet apart?
One is for the humans, and one is for kobolds who attack the Dungeon City.
Sorry to learn about your radio problems; always irritating when something like this happens, and my irritation level seems to get worse the older I get. Hope the replacement's working OK, at least.
I will have to trust that Remy and Wyvern (who are the best map checkers I know) have caught all the little snags between them, because I am unable to take in the whole mass of this set in one go for myself.
I'll probably submit them as groups. Overall maps, then all of Keeper Tower and environs together, all of the town of Bell, all of dungeon city, etc.
I noticed with my last set that even with just fcw files, the zip file blooms up rather quickly.
And hopefully my next set will have far fewer maps in it. I could easily have done details on more buildings, and gone over 100 maps, but I didn't want to do that to Remy.
Map 3 again. Jim, while I understand your comment about seeing more, and perhaps different, detail in more zoomed-in area maps, the locations and sizes of the settlements on Map 3 just look really wrong compared to their detailed, individual maps. Bell and Zosh are barely 700 feet apart, centre to centre on Map 3, and Moo's only another 900 feet from Zosh. This is close for single farmsteads, let alone towns or villages. As there aren't any scales on the three settlement maps, it's hard to say how they compare, but each could be easily 200-400+ feet across, which suggests they're almost in contact with one another. One of these as a small town would be OK, and the others as little hamlets, but that would mean reworking the three settlement maps.
This is why I suggested resizing the symbols on Map 3 originally, to get a better impression of just how cramped everything was looking when comparing the individual place maps with the area one. Stout Tower's scale shows it to be about 600 feet square, but it's only 600 feet from Shoro Town, symbol centre to centre on Map 3, and Shoro Town's about 450 feet north-south, so the two settlements will almost overlap too, as another, but actually-scaled, example.
Rescaling Map 3 would be perhaps the more obvious option here, after a detailed check on the settlement sizes (should the "Tower" settlements really be larger than "towns" like Shoro and Moo, for instance?). I'd still recommend using accurately-scaled symbols for the settlements on Map 3, simply as a double-check that this actually works out for settlement separation. This will though likely make Map 2 redundant after all.
Calling them towers is likely a misnomer as they are small communities supporting the guards, etc. who operate these outposts.
I'll attach a copy of Map 3. Just under the letter Oh in Zosh, you will see a village symbol the scale the template chose as 'set normal'. I made them larger so they are more easily visible on this map. They are currently scale 7.92
So what scale should I use ? I can reduce them easily. I'll attach the fcw so you can check to see if I made another mistake as I have been making a number of them.
I don't think you can just scale the symbols overall for that map Jim, unfortunately. I think you need to look at what size the settlements are on the separate maps you've made, and adjust each one individually to better fit the scale of Map 3. The main problem to me is going to be the proximity of the settlements to one another, which is what made me think the whole scale - and thus size - of Map 3 needs changing to better reflect the fact these places really shouldn't be anything like so close together.
For the Tower communities - and I really only looked at Stout Tower in detail as it was so near Shoro Town - the problem seems to be it's bigger in area than the town. To the scale of Map 3 currently, it would be as large as the distance between Stout Tower and Shoro Town, and Shoro Town should also be about that wide (E-W), and about two-thirds as tall (N-S).
Why would it matter that the tower and walls are bigger than a town ? Its a town itself.
I'm saying on map 3 I deliberately made the symbols larger so they would show up on the map. Otherwise they are just smudges on the map. I can make them smaller. Should I make map 3 larger ?
I think we are talking about two different things.
Jim, what I've been trying to say is that the settlement maps you've made are fine, but if you drop those settlements onto Map 3 at the sizes you've created them, some will almost physically overlap one another at the scale to which Map 3 is drawn.
One example. Shoro Town and Stout Tower are shown on Map 3 as being 600 feet apart. Stout Tower has a settlement size within its own walls of about 600 feet (Map 10). Shoro Town has a size of about 450 feet north to south (Map 9). If you imagine the centre of each settlement is at the middle of its appropriate symbol on Map 3, the walls of the two places will be only 75 feet apart at their closest (600 - (300 + 225)). That means they should be really just a single settlement; they'd be much too close to one another for anything else.
From the overall look of Map 3, and the settlement plans as you've drawn them, I'd say the two places should be several miles apart, maybe 4 or 5 miles at least. That creates problems for Map 3, because clearly enlarging it to make that the revised scale will also mean things like the Moroni Range shape and character will need changing too, because Map 3 will then be covering an area many more miles in size than it currently does. This is why I suggested Map 2 could well become redundant.
I'm moving towns on map 1. I've been very tired but I think I finally got it. So map 1 will be redone and so map 3 will lose two towns and likely a tower or two then moved around the maps.
The new town and tower maps are coming along fine, but I don't think I'll get the renaming of the roads done this week.
I'll keep on working on it, but I may take a break and do something not associated with mapping.
My apologies Wyvern for not understanding you.
edit: As you can see from Map 1; Forest Tower and Zosh will be a bit apart. About 1.4 miles on the new map. And Outstretched Tower and Bell will be about 2.3 miles apart. Those are the distances I have them on the new 5 mile wide maps for 2 new areas for a total of 39 maps.
Some of the roads now are incorrectly labeled on earlier maps. I'll slow down further and try and get all roads re-labeled to show the correct connections.
Not a problem re the not-quite-following notes Jim. Glad you're making progress in this respect now though. I'm never sure if I've explained things correctly, and this is quite a complex thread to follow anyway, because of the number of pages and maps.
In regard to Map 3, it looks like Stout Tower and Shoro Town are now about half a mile apart, which does rather seem far too close to one another still. It also means Stout Tower is closer still to both Moo (less than half a mile) and Keeper Tower in the hills (1,500 feet). The Stout Tower symbol on Map 3 is only about one-sixth its actual 600-feet width to the scale of this map, so the symbol is quite misleading still here, for instance. I don't know how some of the other place-symbols compare with their actual scaled sizes on this map though.
Maybe it would help you visualise it better to draw a simple box shape of the actual scaled-size from the settlement maps for each place on Maps 1 and 3, and place that box over the centre of the symbol on Maps 1 and 3? This is I think quite important, because the lack of scales on some of the settlement maps, and the limited time I can spend checking things like this online, mean I've really only checked the details for the examples I've stated earlier - Stout Tower compared with Shoro Town, primarily. Everywhere else needs checking like as as well though, to make sure the size and placement of all the settlements is correct.
Comments
Map 2 deleted.
Fixed the arrow slots.
Hopefully, this weekend.
Map 22:
Map 23: top of the tower.
I'll start dungeon city next set.
Basement is next and will be in this post. I need to do some editing first.
Map 24: Small treasure room. Food, arrows, and water.
Map 31: Kobold entrance to the ruins near Dungeon City.
I'll be adding room numbers and some details to the rest of the maps.
With and without clouds. I think I may add more numbered areas.
Looks like I need to do something with the fill so it doesn't look so regular. There are water fills that have waves.
Map 33: Dungeon City. Drop off, not onto the sand, how far down does it go ? That is up to the referee, GM, and DM.
A possible entrance area for the kobolds.
Map 34: The Entrance. But it may not connect to the surface of these lands.
Map 36: The Lake area. Routes to the other parts of this dungeon.
And some floating rock areas. And some that appear to be going down into the water. Are they small hills mostly covered by water ?
And am I missing any maps ? If so, please let me know. I should be closer to 35 maps than 30 maps.
I'll check on that. On my cell phone.
I'll get it straightened out.
edit: I got it figured out. I misnumbered the Dungeon City maps. I'll fix the numbering on those and upload them into the same posts they are now.
edit 2: All maps are now correctly numbered. 36 maps for this set.
Unless someone wants more, I think that is it for me on this set. No Quenten, you may not suggest more maps for this set.
Thanks.
On my cell.
A very impressive work, Jim
I'll probably submit them as groups. Overall maps, then all of Keeper Tower and environs together, all of the town of Bell, all of dungeon city, etc.
I noticed with my last set that even with just fcw files, the zip file blooms up rather quickly.
And hopefully my next set will have far fewer maps in it. I could easily have done details on more buildings, and gone over 100 maps, but I didn't want to do that to Remy.
This is why I suggested resizing the symbols on Map 3 originally, to get a better impression of just how cramped everything was looking when comparing the individual place maps with the area one. Stout Tower's scale shows it to be about 600 feet square, but it's only 600 feet from Shoro Town, symbol centre to centre on Map 3, and Shoro Town's about 450 feet north-south, so the two settlements will almost overlap too, as another, but actually-scaled, example.
Rescaling Map 3 would be perhaps the more obvious option here, after a detailed check on the settlement sizes (should the "Tower" settlements really be larger than "towns" like Shoro and Moo, for instance?). I'd still recommend using accurately-scaled symbols for the settlements on Map 3, simply as a double-check that this actually works out for settlement separation. This will though likely make Map 2 redundant after all.
I'll attach a copy of Map 3. Just under the letter Oh in Zosh, you will see a village symbol the scale the template chose as 'set normal'. I made them larger so they are more easily visible on this map. They are currently scale 7.92
So what scale should I use ? I can reduce them easily. I'll attach the fcw so you can check to see if I made another mistake as I have been making a number of them.
For the Tower communities - and I really only looked at Stout Tower in detail as it was so near Shoro Town - the problem seems to be it's bigger in area than the town. To the scale of Map 3 currently, it would be as large as the distance between Stout Tower and Shoro Town, and Shoro Town should also be about that wide (E-W), and about two-thirds as tall (N-S).
I'm saying on map 3 I deliberately made the symbols larger so they would show up on the map. Otherwise they are just smudges on the map. I can make them smaller. Should I make map 3 larger ?
I think we are talking about two different things.
Map 6: Bell
Map 4 Castle Defender
Map 37: Desolate Fens. I knew I had another one somewhere.
Map 20: First floor.
Map 21: Second floor
Map 22: Third floor
One example. Shoro Town and Stout Tower are shown on Map 3 as being 600 feet apart. Stout Tower has a settlement size within its own walls of about 600 feet (Map 10). Shoro Town has a size of about 450 feet north to south (Map 9). If you imagine the centre of each settlement is at the middle of its appropriate symbol on Map 3, the walls of the two places will be only 75 feet apart at their closest (600 - (300 + 225)). That means they should be really just a single settlement; they'd be much too close to one another for anything else.
From the overall look of Map 3, and the settlement plans as you've drawn them, I'd say the two places should be several miles apart, maybe 4 or 5 miles at least. That creates problems for Map 3, because clearly enlarging it to make that the revised scale will also mean things like the Moroni Range shape and character will need changing too, because Map 3 will then be covering an area many more miles in size than it currently does. This is why I suggested Map 2 could well become redundant.
On my cell.
Updated Map 1 and Map 3.
Still too close in Map 3 ?
I'll keep on working on it, but I may take a break and do something not associated with mapping.
My apologies Wyvern for not understanding you.
edit: As you can see from Map 1; Forest Tower and Zosh will be a bit apart. About 1.4 miles on the new map. And Outstretched Tower and Bell will be about 2.3 miles apart. Those are the distances I have them on the new 5 mile wide maps for 2 new areas for a total of 39 maps.
Some of the roads now are incorrectly labeled on earlier maps. I'll slow down further and try and get all roads re-labeled to show the correct connections.
Thank all of you for being patient with me.
Map 38: Outstretched Tower and Bell
Map 39: Forest Tower and Zosh
In regard to Map 3, it looks like Stout Tower and Shoro Town are now about half a mile apart, which does rather seem far too close to one another still. It also means Stout Tower is closer still to both Moo (less than half a mile) and Keeper Tower in the hills (1,500 feet). The Stout Tower symbol on Map 3 is only about one-sixth its actual 600-feet width to the scale of this map, so the symbol is quite misleading still here, for instance. I don't know how some of the other place-symbols compare with their actual scaled sizes on this map though.
Maybe it would help you visualise it better to draw a simple box shape of the actual scaled-size from the settlement maps for each place on Maps 1 and 3, and place that box over the centre of the symbol on Maps 1 and 3? This is I think quite important, because the lack of scales on some of the settlement maps, and the limited time I can spend checking things like this online, mean I've really only checked the details for the examples I've stated earlier - Stout Tower compared with Shoro Town, primarily. Everywhere else needs checking like as as well though, to make sure the size and placement of all the settlements is correct.
The symbol scale on map 3 is so the symbols can easily be seen. The size of those symbols have nothing to do with the size I draw the town detail in.
So I could place a symbol for Shoro Town that on Map 3 is a mile wide, but the town isn't actually that large.
I try to be close to the distances they are apart.
And due to a hodgepodge of maps, I'll be starting a new thread.