[CLOSED] Community Atlas, Forlorn Archipelago, Fisher Island, Moroni Range, local maps

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  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    No, that's not necessary. Just pointed out that they are the cause of the slowdown.
  • Okay. I'll eat lunch and maybe post the next 9 later today or tomorrow.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited July 2020
    Three sets left. Each one in a different town. So they wont be split up.

    This set has 6 maps.

    Tower Keep details.

    map 19: Tower Keep ground level/first level.

    map 20: Tower Keep, second level

    map 21: Tower Keep, third level
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited July 2020
    Map 22: Tower Keep, level 3

    Map 23: Tower Keep, top

    Map 24: Tower Keep, basement
  • That is it for this set.

    Please comment by number on the top of the map. Thanks !
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited July 2020
    I apparently thought of more maps than I made. Bell doesn't have 6, the town has 5.

    Map 25: Bell adventure items store.

    rather small, but so is the town.

    Map 26: ground/first level of the storage building. Rather longer than wide, so I had to shrink it more than the other maps.

    Map 27: first/second floor. had to shrink thiso ne as well.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited July 2020
    Map 28: Bell town Bread and Cheese shop.

    Map 29: Bell repair shop. Either it is the off season, or one person does all the work.

    That is all of the shops in Bell town. Please comment using the map numbers. Thanks.
  • What's with the yellow floor? Is it made of cheese? 8D
  • It is a cheap flooring the town bought. Apparently it makes the workers feel miserable.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    For maps like the keeper tower (19-23), it looks good if you copy the outside detail (trees/bushes) to the exact same spot on each map (not including the basement) and then fade them out a bit to indicate they are a level below. Copying them to the exact same point is easy with clipboard copy if you use the origin (0,0) of the map as the clipboard origin when copying.
    Fading them out can be achieved by just throwing a polygon using the solid white 20 fill over them (or a standard white polygon with transparency effect). Just make sure the entire thing (trees and polygon) are beneath all parts of the tower, including the floors.

    All of these maps would probably also benefit from having a small path comming in from outside the map and up to the door. Even if there is no official road up to the house, the grass will always be worn down from all the traffic.
  • Okay. I'll work on that.

    On my cell
  • Map 19: added path.

    The others are likely going to take longer than this one did.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 39 images Cartographer
    That looks better :)

    It gives the map a sort of reference point.
  • I think I understand what you suggested, but I'm going to only do this one map in case I got it wrong.

    Map 20: white area with transparency, 30%.

    The tree shadows bother me, are they okay being there ? Or should I move the trees to symbols, flat ?
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    That looks weird. Did you just cover the trees and road here? You should use a large rectangle that covers the entire map (Which is why you also need to mess with the sheet order to make sure it doesn't appear on top of the tower too.)
  • edited August 2020
    I've had a couple of tries at compiling some notes for you on these maps Jim, but as I'm not online every day, the topic has rapidly becoming overwhelming to try to make sense of. Maybe splitting the maps between a number of topics would have made it easier for folks to comment usefully, though Remy's been doing a sterling job on many of the smaller-area maps so far.

    I've been having huge struggles to understand Maps 1 to 3, however, and have stalled there. I'm sorry if some of the following seems a bit blunt, but the more I try to type additional thoughts, the more confused I've got! These notes are intended to help though, given these are all still works-in-progress.


    Map 1:

    Is the square grid actually necessary? Seems a distraction - replace with a normal scale bar maybe?

    Adjust label placements (or perhaps font sizes - several labels seem a bit too large) to be less adjacent to their symbols (Castle Defender is underneath its label, for instance).

    The Starshine Forest label is too near the eastern map edge.

    Needs a key for all the unlabelled symbols.

    Maybe make the river name blue?


    Map 2:

    This map doesn't seem to fit with the overall form of the northeast end of the mountain range as shown on Map 1. Plus Map 1 seems to have two different symbols, one (?) of which is labelled as Keeper Tower (not sure which, however), but that would have to be either on a high mountain peak, or an east-facing slope leading up to one, yet on Map 2, it's apparently down on the plain from the label placement (I'm guessing it's meant to be the other symbol halfway down a mountain on the edge of the range, however, which doesn't fit too well with the locations for whichever is meant as Keeper Tower on Map 1). There also seems a dormant volcano dominating Map 2 on the NE range edge, which isn't apparent on Map 1, and a whole range of hills along the map's southern edge which have no clear analogue on Map 1 either. From the look of Map 1, it may be a part of Starshine Forest should be showing in Map 2's NE corner as well. Scales on both these maps might help resolve some of these points.


    Map 3:

    This confuses me still more, as the huge mountains of Map 1 now look to be low hills instead, with a substantial expanse of woodland to their northeast which was oddly not previously labelled, and a seemingly dominant town (Shoro) also never previously illustrated. I can't visualise what relation this map has to Map 2. Keeper Tower seems to have migrated back into the hills-that-were-mountains at least, but it's now a lot more central than on either Maps 1 or 2. On Map 2, it was right on the range edge, and even on Map 1 both possible Keeper Tower symbols were towards that NE range-edge, which makes it seem like the extent of the mountain/hills range has shrunk dramatically by Map 3. There seem to be a couple of unusual symbols shown which might benefit from a key here as well (in the mountains/hills).


    Maps 1 to 3: Looking at this group together suggests 2 and 3 might benefit from reworking in relation to one another, drawing on the overall look of Map 1. I realise the three are meant to be zooming-in from Map 1 to Map 3, but that shouldn't mean the relative position of features shown on Map 1 should change between maps, and to me anyway, it shouldn't be this difficult to work out where the earlier features are, and thus where the new ones are in relation to them.
  • I accidently left the grids up on some maps. I'll either hide those or delete them when I am done.

    Yes, I misunderstood then. I made a transparency on just the trees and roads.

    I'll print this page to pdf. Its been a hectic week with an item I ordered, took over a week extra to get to me, and then... it didn't work. New item coming, not working one returned.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited August 2020
    Further away maps, don't show much more than generic landscapes. Closer shows more details, and more exact locations.

    However, I have placed Keeper Tower on hills.

    Updated map 2.
  • Okay, I'm better rested today.

    Remy, I'll fix that. Kinda busy today, but I'll take care of it.

    Wyvern:

    Map 1.

    Unlabeled towers, I was going to let other mappers take care of those locations.

    I'll move the forest name.

    Map 2: I changed the font size and labeled the ruins as ruins.

    Large scale maps wont show all of the towns, it would get too crowded.

    I can remove the dormant volcano. The elf forest is off map 2.

    Map 3: zoomed in more. So only a part of the range is going to show, these are the foothills.

    I did export rectangular png files and used them as a guide in the next map to place locations at the same spot between maps.

    Possibly scale bars will help resolve this confusion. I'll add them in and repost.
  • Map 1 update.

    I'll post the other two as I complete them.
  • The scale of map 2 is way off. Its only one mile across. So I'll have to completely redo it.
  • Sorry to hear about Map 2, Jim. Sometimes these things just slip by in a moment's inattention (he said from experience...).

    The labelling is much improved on Map 1 though.

    The unlabelled things I meant on it weren't so much the buildings, but the horned skulls and radiant heads - especially as these aren't in Map 2, and only variant horned heads feature in Map 3 (presumably what was in the different symbol set for that map). From the Map 2 word labels, you might guess the horned skulls are "bad things", but there isn't any reference to what the radiant heads represent on either Map 2 or 3.

    If Keeper Tower's actually on a hill, maybe it would be better to change the symbol it's set upon in Map 1 as well?

    Also just spotted the northernmost mountain symbol on Map 1 partly overlies the smaller mountain immediately to its southwest; quick adjustment only needed, hopefully.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited August 2020
    Here is Map 2. Map is one mile wide, I had to up the symbol scale so I wouldn't have hundreds of hills in such a small area.

    Removed Orcs and Goblins as with them and the kobolds, the Keeper Tower area would have been wiped out long ago, at that close to each other.

    Didn't take long to redo map 2.

    I hope the scale works. I didn't know if I should put 0.25, 0,25, or 1/4. I settled on 1/4.

    I included the fcw.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited August 2020
    Here is map 1 updated.

    Didn't label the heads, good and evil, as I wanted to resolve the other problems first.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited August 2020
    Are there any more corrections ? Or should I post the rest of the maps on Tuesday or Wednesday ?

    Thank you.
  • Can I suggest moving both compass and scale to lefthand bottom corner? Or the compass in bottom left, scale in bottom right, and move Dreadwood text up and to the left a bit.

    Also, not sure what One in the top right is meant to refer to?

    Perhaps move Castle Defender text closer to castle.
  • Jim, one of the skulls on Map 1 is now only peeking over one of the mountain symbols, while the mountain next to it has its base over the peak of that to its south. Actually, there's a clump of mountains all doing the same thing in mid-range on Map 1 - looks like there may have been only a partial "Sort Symbols in Map" command carried out here, likely on the northern half of the range.

    I'm curious, is the Moroni Range actually mountains or hills? Or is it mountains set among hills? If the latter, I'd suggest adding/replacing more of the outer mountains with hill symbols, to make it look as if the terrain increases in height/ruggedness towards the interior of the Range.

    Is Map 3 still being used? It seems now to cover an almost identical physical area to the reduced Map 2, yet the two show completely different details (¼ mile is 1,320 feet, after all, so the two scale bars are not dissimilar in size). That could suggest Map 2 is actually redundant, albeit "Growl Plains" doesn't feature on Map 3.

    It looks as if Map 3 would benefit from a few more hill symbols along the western map edge, as there are patches of green plain-land showing there, which from the revised Maps 1 & 2 probably shouldn't be visible at this scale, if the rest of the area is indeed as hilly as 1 & 2 seem to indicate.

    It may be worth adjusting the two "Dungeon City Entrance" labels on Map 3. The northern one is too close to the "Ruins" label currently, and both are probably too small in comparison to the other labels on this map.

    I agree with Quenten's comment that the compass roses and scalebars need moving to somewhere much less dominant on Maps 1 to 3.

    Quenten's comment regarding the "One" label (which refers to the map numbering to allow easier discussions here only, incidentally Q) is a useful reminder not to forget to delete these from all the maps before submission for the Atlas, Jim!
  • Posted By: QuentenCan I suggest moving both compass and scale to lefthand bottom corner? Or the compass in bottom left, scale in bottom right, and move Dreadwood text up and to the left a bit.

    Also, not sure what One in the top right is meant to refer to?

    Perhaps move Castle Defender text closer to castle.
    I numbered the maps so it is easier for folks, and me, to track comments.
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited August 2020
    Posted By: WyvernJim, one of the skulls on Map 1 is now only peeking over one of the mountain symbols, while the mountain next to it has its base over the peak of that to its south. Actually, there's a clump of mountains all doing the same thing in mid-range on Map 1 - looks like there may have been only a partial "Sort Symbols in Map" command carried out here, likely on the northern half of the range.
    That map is giving me fits. Some of the mountains wound up on terrain, mountains sheet, and some on symbols sheet. I'll check it again.

    (attempt at humor) maybe its a hidden evil ? (end humor attempt)
    I'm curious, is the Moroni Range actually mountains or hills? Or is it mountains set among hills? If the latter, I'd suggest adding/replacing more of the outer mountains with hill symbols, to make it look as if the terrain increases in height/ruggedness towards the interior of the Range.
    The large island map shows only mountains, but from what I remember of geography, there are always foot hills of some sort. I'll look into it again.
    Is Map 3 still being used? It seems now to cover an almost identical physical area to the reduced Map 2, yet the two show completely different details (¼ mile is 1,320 feet, after all, so the two scale bars are not dissimilar in size). That could suggest Map 2 is actually redundant, albeit "Growl Plains" doesn't feature on Map 3.
    Thinking out loud...

    Map 1 the scale is 5 miles. Map 2 scale is 1/4 mile. Map 3 scale is 1000 feet.

    Lets see: Map 3 is 41 miles across; Map 2 is a mile across. And Map 3 is just under a mile across. 5271 feet.

    I can make map 2 larger scale, or try and add things on map 2 to map 3 and do away with map 2.

    I don't want to renumber things now, as that could lead to confusion when people comment on these maps before I submit them.

    The slowly zooming in maps have always been a pain for me. This map sequence is a shining example of that.

    I'm rather tired. I ordered a radio 3 weeks ago. It got sent to the wrong time zone, no I'm not kidding, and when it finally got here last week, it didn't work. I have since received a replacement and returned the one that had manufacturing defects. So, I'm a bit frazzled.
    It looks as if Map 3 would benefit from a few more hill symbols along the western map edge, as there are patches of green plain-land showing there, which from the revised Maps 1 & 2 probably shouldn't be visible at this scale, if the rest of the area is indeed as hilly as 1 & 2 seem to indicate.
    Yeah, placing mountains and hills along the left map edge has always been a pain for me. I'll work on that.
    It may be worth adjusting the two "Dungeon City Entrance" labels on Map 3. The northern one is too close to the "Ruins" label currently, and both are probably too small in comparison to the other labels on this map.
    Okay. Well. Looking at the fcw file, they refer to the same location. A re-wording would be better.

    Dungeon City Entrance Ruins ?
    I agree with Quenten's comment that the compass roses and scalebars need moving to somewhere much less dominant on Maps 1 to 3.

    Quenten's comment regarding the "One" label (which refers to the map numbering to allow easier discussions here only, incidentally Q) is a useful reminder not to forget to delete these from all the maps before submission for the Atlas, Jim!
    I wont. Hopefully.

    I may or may not post corrected maps today. I'm still tired and a bit frazzled.

    I'll print this page to pdf so I don't have to be logged in to read it. My cell phone sometimes goes to the pages past the first one, and sometimes it doesn't.

    edit: And I'll fix the transparency on the trees, etc. that Remy mentioned.
  • Hidden evil, eh? ;D

    On the "foothills" concept, there's certainly plenty of real-world precedent for them, but it's not a hard and fast rule - escarpment cliff lines, for instance, and plateaux, or features such as rift valleys, where you can get a dramatic change in terrain on a sharp-ish line. Here, foothills would make sense; I just wasn't sure from the variations between Maps 1-3 what the overall terrain here was meant to be.

    Maps 2 and 3 looked similar in size from my by-eye estimate yesterday, certainly. I'd suggest just cancelling Map 2. No need to renumber the rest for comments here though; just note that Map 2 no longer exists. Map 3 has much more detail on already. Might be worth adding a "Growl Plains" label to Map 3 though.

    Looking at Map 3 in comparison with its scale today, I suspect some of the symbols should be larger. For instance, the Shoro Town symbol is barely 200 feet across on Map 3, yet on its own dedicated map (Map 9), it's width is about 600 feet. On Map 3, even including all the fields to the east stretches the area involved to barely 400 feet. Map 9 suggests the eastern fields start only around 700 feet from the west wall, for example. Neither the Moo (Map 7), Zosh (12) nor Bell (6) village maps have scales yet, so I'm not sure how their symbol-sizes on Map 3 relate to this, and I've not checked the other maps for similar size comparisons at all.

    Shouldn't the Castle Defender map (Map 4) have a lot more trees on it? It's in what seems quite dense forest on Map 1.

    Does that mean there should be just one Dungeon City Entrance label on Map 3, saying "Dungeon City Entrance Ruins" now? Or are there really two entrances about 600 feet apart?

    Sorry to learn about your radio problems; always irritating when something like this happens, and my irritation level seems to get worse the older I get. Hope the replacement's working OK, at least.
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