I agree the right side version looks better.

I'd suggest making the "contour lines" round the tops thinner and less distinct - closer to how the hatching is drawn, as they seem too dominant otherwise at present.

Not sure if it might be worth trying with a tool that generates longer hatching lines instead of having to draw two or three sets together for the steeper areas. I've a feeling the law of diminishing returns is liable to set-in with too much experimentation, however.

Glaciers might work with a more transparent version of the fill you have showing the seas right now (not sure how the style generates that appearance, so this might need extra work). The original book map looked to have a scattered series of small pale blue dots and tiny circles to show the glaciated tops.

The book-map lakes used a lot of lines drawn parallel to the lake banks right into the lake's centre, more or less, which was also how the seas were shown, although that looked uncomfortable to my eye, so you might want to try that, or maybe tone it down a bit.

If you're struggling to work out the general sizes of things as a whole, you might find it useful to look through some real-world maps, like an atlas, a map of your local area and your own town, for instance. That should give you some ideas about the amount of detail visible on different area-sizes of map.

It might help you too to draw out some sketch-maps by-hand first of what you're wanting to create in CC3+, as that way you can get a rough idea of what size of map is going to better-fit the map you're wanting to draw once you start-up in the program. Even if you don't get it right this way, you can always resize the map in CC3+ if you find the area's too large, or not large enough. We've all been there!

The last set of Embra "Places" maps is that for the Constructed Places of Interest, linked from central segment 7 on the "Official Guide" map:

This is the busiest set for individual locations of any of the Places groups, with seven, leaving a mere three to be condensed onto the eighth "Streets" map.

The Celtic knotwork border was adapted from one in the, by-now-famous, Dover Clip-Art "Celtic Borders on Layout Grids" book, providing a completely connected square, to complement the original circular design used for the Village maps. That seemed an appropriate method of "book-ending" the entire set, as well as tying-in with the idea of both being constructed places, if of somewhat different sorts. In altering the design from what had been a vertically-elongated rectangular one to the required square here, I discovered when looking at the finished piece with its colouring, that I'd accidentally produced an asymmetry in the patterning. I did wonder briefly about amending that, but liked the look of something slightly off-kilter as apt for a Faerie setting, and so left it. The hours of effort it would have taken to change it had, of course, nothing to do with that choice...

Hopping to the next continent east from my sojourn in Kumarikandam last month, took my sort-of Dungeon24 project (see this earlier topic for details) to the archipelago of Nga-Whenuatoto, and specifically the southernmost island in the chain, Mate Ora, as this was where the third of the Inkwell Dice "Crypts" set of designs had been randomly allocated.

Part of the design the Crypts dice had generated included the interior of a pyramidal structure. Later in the process of rolling-up the full set of base map designs, I discovered that the "Cities" and "Ruins" dice sets had identical patterns, except that the Ruins dice had parts of their designs - as you might expect - in ruins. This created a minor complication, since as mentioned before, I was intending to avoid using duplicates of the same dice design for the full set of base maps. Doing this for the Cities and Ruins sets meant I ended up with just four Ruins designs unused, and as luck had it, each of those had a single major feature on it. Since ruins are a handy feature found on many fantasy maps overall, I opted to add all four of these single-dice drawings to the final set of base maps. One of which was a central ziggurat with the same number of external "steps" as the interior from the Crypts set. So it seemed useful to combine both designs for these Mate Ora maps.

All that remained for the planning stage was to select a suitable ruin on Mate Ora, and I found one in the northeastern part of the island that seemed to fit what I'd begun thinking of:

Mate Ora has a reputation as the Land of the (Living) Dead, so it was obvious the tombs here were going to be a little unquiet, and following a few more random rolls on suitable tables, and a bit of consideration, I decided on the primary denizen being a lich, but one who was trapped at the ruin site. From the map scale, it's clear that the orange rectangle shown above is about 9 by 8 miles in size, so the ruined village shown was going to be just one small feature within that area, and that I'd be looking at creating three maps, for the local area, the ruined village and only then the subterranean tombs. There's an ape-folk village just across the sea inlet from my selected site, and it seemed natural they'd have learnt to avoid this area, and would have named it.

I toyed with the idea of something vaguely Maori for the names, given this applies to the rest of the archipelago, only to decide against it, given how isolated and shunned Mate Ora has become, thanks to its fearsome reputation. However, I still wanted something a little out of the ordinary, so thought the ape-folk language might well consist of elements such as tongue-clicks and throaty sounds. So the village became TlokPik, or Yhangha (as the lich prefers), and the local area map took its name from the former version of the village name. As a translation, I went with TlokPik as meaning something like "Jungle hill(s)/burial mounds where the (living) dead walk", and for the ape-folk to treat it as a kind of taboo term, a place to be avoided.

The area map, while based on the terrain shown on the Mate Ora map, had a number of random additions, and others, applied. For this Mate Ora set of maps too, I drew on a broad selection of random table options, some of my own, some from the Atelier Clandestin "Sandbox Generator" used before, some from the Index Card RPG (Master Edition) by Runehammer Games, but still more this time were sourced from two newly-arrived RPG books from Kickstarters that have delivered in hardcopy during the last few weeks, the main Shadowdark RPG rulebook from the Arcane Library and Monte Cook Games' The Weird (which latter is a massive RPG sourcebook of purely random-idea tables).

Thus finally we arrive at the TlokPik Area Map:

As ever, PDF and text notes will accompany this map, to explain a little more what the names refer to. For the map drawing, I needed some overland style jungle options, and settled upon the Myrklund style from the Cartographer's Annual. The options even so are a little limited, but this set does have varicolor versions of the jungle symbols too, which I needed to better highlight some of the specific features.

However, it might be helpful to see a few more styles better able to handle overland areas of this smaller size (less than 20 miles or so in either dimension), with a greater range of symbol options especially. Just two or three other drawings for jungle (not palm!) trees would have been a great help here, I felt, even though I was able to add a small patch of deciduous woods as well, thanks to one of the random rolls.

While I know some folks that comment and contribute here like to present and view Work In Progress topics, I rarely map in a way that allows this, as I tend to simply change things as I'm going along and don't record what's been done or when. It also needs extra time and effort, which is something I rarely have available either. However, when I started the second of the 40 250 x 200 mile maps for "my" corner of Alarius, that did seem a rare opportunity to try to do a bit more in this line. So while not a WIP thread as such - because the map's already completed, and will be submitted for the Atlas shortly - it may be of interest to some to have an overview of how it got to be as it is.

When I started preparing for this whole Errynor project, one of the first things I did was to set up the grid for where the 250 x 200 mile maps were going to be on Shessar's Alarius map:

I then hand-drew onto squared paper details extracted from this map for each of the planned 40, including things like where the exact lines for the different background terrain fills lay on land, where the edge of the contour-colour fills were for the sea, and so forth. Although these wouldn't be so critical for the later mapping (the edges of the fills being softened in the map as shown above here means there will always be a degree of leeway in such things), they were important for some of the more detailed features I wanted to add, such as creatures which tend to be biome-specific.

Zooming in to the Map 40 area (lowest right corner of the full gridded map above) showed what I'd be dealing with here:

The yellow line that's just peeping out from under the lowest outer orange line is for the southern limit of the Errynor mapping area (it also extends up the right-hand edge of Map 40, but is better hidden there), while the thinner white line extending south of the right-hand corner of Map 40 is because when this mapping began several years ago, the area east of Errynor had been reserved by another Atlas mapper. Ultimately, the person who was hoping to map that region had to drop out unfortunately, but Shessar subsequently stepped-in and completed part of it, although that no longer extends south to the southern edge of my Errynor area, as a comparison of where the major river (now named as the Faerie Run) lies in relation to the lowest corner of the illustrations above and below this paragraph. On the following extract from the bottom left corner of Shessar's "Alarius North Central" map, I've added a 250 x 200 mile orange rectangle for scale:

The left edge of this rectangular area immediately adjoins part of the right edge of my Map 40, and also part of Map 32 to Map 40's north.

Returning to Map 40, to the hand-drawn map of landforms and terrain features, I added randomly-rolled creatures and places using a series of tables based on ones I'd constructed decades ago, updated and amended here where that seemed necessary. The squared-paper maps had been designated so that every square would be five miles on a side, and each 5-mile square was allocated a maximum 10% chance of having something noteworthy in it at this mapping scale (variably reduced for anything less favourable than temperate surface land conditions). Of those features, about 17% - 1 in 6 - might be settlements of some sort, with a maximum 60% chance of being inhabited, or deserted/ruined otherwise, again partly condition-dependent.

All of which got me to the point where I could also begin filling-in some of the lesser terrain features based on what had been rolled-up. Settlements need a significant water supply, as would some types of creature, which allowed new river lines to be sketched-in. Certain creatures also need a lair of some kind, and that meant smaller areas of cliffs, caves, trees, marshes and lakes could be added, all again based on random rolls determined by the creatures in question. Thus the map came to look like this:

This isn't very clear at the size suitable for the Forum, and the scan I made of it has cut-off the column numbering along the top edge. This wasn't important for what I intended, as it was simply meant as the traceable background bitmap image for the CC3+ map. I can't re-scan it like this, as it's been further amended since, and indeed right into the creation of Map 40 in CC3+ changes were still being made, not all of which ended up on the hand-drawn version anyway! It is still possible though to see this is a "warts and all" sketch, with crossings-out, amendments and annotations. Even the original map isn't as clear as it might be now, and I can't remember which of the various lines represent which terrain type in places where the annotations have become too dense! Note too that the line of the map's only major river (that is, the one shown on the original Alarius map) hasn't been finalised here. It's still drawn at the scale it was, so is about ten miles wide, hence why the new tributaries end at its edge. As this also illustrates, the size of the paper means the edge of the mapped area is seven squares short of this image's right-hand edge.

Features were allocated one or two numbers as well as a written note of what each was, as I learnt early on the importance of recording these (they're the dice roll values) after making some mistakes in identifying which thing was in which terrain type, and thus what the random tables said it was meant to be... In the map's centre-top, that Yeti that became a Blood Hawk Flock with a cliff lair turned out to have been a Yeti after all, as you may be able to tell from this close-up of a later version of just the top left corner (now so you can see the top column numbers too):

If you can see some dots that don't have any annotations, or other faint markings, that's because I hand-drew all these maps on both sides of the paper, and occasionally that shows through weakly.

Selecting only the main features, such as the major settlements and ruins, as well as the new lesser watercourses and vegetation areas, was what let me build-up the final Errynor map, of which the Map 40 segment is shown below, here with its latitude lines and the southern limit for Nibirum's northern polar auroral zone (red arc). Only the cream-coloured latitude arc, for 55°N, features in the Atlas CC3+ Errynor map. The black arcs for each 1° were added in preparation for these individual 250 x 200 mile maps, and will feature there:

I'll present and discuss the final CC3+ map for the Atlas in more detail in a subsequent Forum topic. For now, merely a teaser view of the final Map 40's terrain (only) - no settlements, or creatures, or anything else. Yet!

By the time I'd chosen a property to map the floorplans for from Vertshusen for this contest, I already had some ideas as to what it was going to be, and what mapping style I'd be going with. The chosen property is that marked by the red square in the SE corner of the walled area:

My initial thoughts had revolved around a haunted house theme, and because I've already done quite a bit of mapping for the Community Atlas using some of the more realistic floorplan styles, quickly decided I wanted to do something different. For me, part of the point in participating in the Atlas is to experiment with new ideas and different mapping styles.

Three possible styles were uppermost in mind, all very similar tech-drawing styles, the 1930s Travel Guide Floorplans from the April 2011 Cartographer's Annual, the 1800s Floorplans from April 2016, and the one I finally selected, the Dracula Dossier style from September 2015. Haunted house, after all!

However, I also took a look through the PDF of "Hobbs' Architecture", which was a recommended freely-available download from the Internet Archive site, mentioned in the mapping guide and webpage for the 1800s Floorplan style, to get a feel for what house layouts should look like and contain in this general type of map appearance.

The working title for the map was "The House That Wasn't There", as I had vague early ideas of creating a building that wasn't always there. Indeed, one initial concept had been to pick a completely empty space in the city, and map the house into that, only I couldn't find a space large enough!

Which building was chosen was partly down to something that looked interesting, that was also a little out of the way, and the final choice was swayed after I was drawn to one of the smaller buildings in "Hobbs'":

which just looked interesting, and had some features not dissimilar to the building in Vertshusen. The size and scaling weren't the same of course, as the Vertshusen buildings are uniformly tiny by contrast to the structures in "Hobbs'". It was a starting point though.

Having measured the house size on the Vertshusen FCW, I set up a suitable template in the Dracula Dossier style, and then directly imported (copy & pasted) the "Wasn't" House and its neighbouring properties, setting "my" house down in the centre of the map border area.

Of course, it's angled as originally drawn, and as others have commented in topics for this mapping contest already, that's not the friendliest layout for drawing rectilinear structures. So I copied the house again, and rotated it to better suit, and then copied that twice more (as my initial idea was for a ground floor plan, an upper floor plan, and a further plan for the two taller roof towers. I also imported copied scans from the Hobbs' book as reminders for the overall look of the plans, setting them up on their own Sheet with a Transparency Effect, so I could position them over the CD3 house roof and get a better idea of what might go where. And then started drawing. This illustrates where I'd got to with the drawings when I ran out of time yesterday:

As mentioned before, my Errynor mapping project for the Community Atlas has been an opportunity to bring to life ideas sometimes previously developed, and occasionally even mapped, in earlier decades of fantasy gaming. A Faerie settlement has been a concept under consideration for years, without finalising a mapped setting. When a Faerie city - what became Embra - came-up among the randomly-designed places for Errynor, that seemed the perfect time to progress with the concept finally.

Influenced by literary, artistic, folkloric, musical and fantasy gaming sources, I wanted to give the impression that visiting the city would be like negotiating Maurits Escher's semi-dream-state artwork and that of some of the surrealists. Disorienting, essentially, yet retaining a quality of magical wonder.

That's fine as an idea, but it then must be transposed into the physical reality of one or more maps to fit the limits of the Community Atlas.

Eventually, I settled on having many maps for the city, each showing only a small part, without defining what the city as a whole should look like, or how its pieces might fit together. Thus every visit there will be different, albeit with some familiar places for those returning - if they can find them!

The Atlas connections mean a map can have multiple links from it, but each linked map must use the first map as its only parent. They can't cross-link separately. Thus I opted for a two-fold access structure like two concentric circles, an outer "ring" linking with the Mortal Realm (and the next map "up" in the Errynor maps, that for Clack Valley), while the inner would lead to the Faerie city proper, so entering or leaving the city would be usually via the outer "ring" - inward to Faerie, outward to Mortality.

So as not to be too linear, I decided that when approaching the city from outside, it would look like just a village, so someone wishing to visit the Faerie "inner" city would first need to find a means to do so from there. That might be achievable randomly, by GM's choice, or using something like the magical Law of Similarity - like goes to like - possibly variably. For the latter, entering a field through a gate at the "village" might lead instead into a floral garden or a park in the Faerie city, say, and so forth.

From this, I thought having the "village" be different in form depending on the direction it was approached from would add extra spice, and decided on eight for the eight main compass points - north, south, east, west, northeast, southeast, southwest and northwest. So that's eight maps already, and we're not yet into the city!

This does though provide those three options - a D8 random-roll possibility and the approach-direction "Similarity" mechanic, either of which could be superseded by the GM as preferred.

For the Village maps, I decided to use as a base some from the two Judges Guild "Village" map books from the late 1970s, chosen randomly from their nearly 100 layouts. These are identically-scaled, set within a hexagon 1,056 feet, 0.2 miles, across from flat side to flat side, subdivided into smaller hexagons each about 40 feet across similarly.

Following from the Similarity principle, seven main elements were identified in each settlement: enclosures such as fields, orchards and gardens; crossing-points, like bridges, fords or ferries; damper places - lakes, ponds, streams or marshes; travel routes - roads, tracks, footpaths, etc.; upland areas such as hills, cliffs and broken ground; woodlands - copses, forests, even shrubberies; and structures - the village buildings.

Hence seven themed general areas developed: Enclosed Places, Crossing Places, Watery Places, Travelling Places, Hilly Places, Wooded Places and Constructed Places. These could be connected at GM's choice or by Similarity, leaving only the random option one short of another D8 roll.

In the notes for deep-sea hag Aunty MacKassa (PDF link; Forum discussion for this map is here), I'd mentioned Embra contained the great Twilight Market. That was to be incorporated in seven parts here, one for each of the Place groupings. Instead of impractical cross-links between the Market segments, I devised a Twilight Market identifier, based on various online and hardcopy-book designs, adapted and recoloured (not a CC3+ symbol, simply a piece of artwork):

Rather than a "Return" option, the eighth item became an additional D8 re-roll, ignoring further "8s", after which the GM could continue to the part of the Twilight Market for whichever of the seven places had been determined.

Thus the eight Village entry-points, seven general Places links, and the Twilight Market indicator provided the initial map for the city, accessed from the Clack Valley map in the form of a schematic drawing, given its sole purpose was to link to the other maps of the city. I called it the "Embra Official Guide", similar to how some real-world tourist guides are named. The next image is a cleaned-up (i.e. legible!) version of my final pre-mapping sketch for this schematic:

The eight outer Village maps link from this schematic individually, while the seven general area Places each get their own "landing schematic", as they consist of a group of separate locations. The random element, with other factors of what was both practical and interesting, meant each Places grouping would have ten different components in it, including the Twilight Market map for each Places set.

Ideas for what these Places might be came from a range of sources. Some were old concepts of my own, some drawn or adapted from fictional works, though many derived from real-world placenames. The origin of the city's name, Embra, is the local dialect contraction of "Edinburgh", Scotland's capital city. However, it also sounds like "ember", the glowing remains of a fire, which in turn conjures up the magical twilight glow of somewhere lit only by firelight, a place for stories of mystery and wonder. Thus the real-world City of Edinburgh became a source of inspiration for many of Embra's Places, suitably renamed, amended and altered to better suit a Faerie settlement.

The 70 items included locations in the city and names of streets, since Places need linking in ways more mundane as well as magical, to help keep things interesting. Ultimately, the split between Places and Streets was 34 to 36, as the "Streets" included a railway.

Each Place needed its own map, but the Streets and railway were condensed into a single map for each Places grouping. So the final tally of maps comprising Embra totalled "only" 57. Perhaps I should have named it "Heinz"...

This sketch illustrates the way the maps were to be connected:

Random base maps for the main Places were selected from all the old Judges Guild map books I had available - Villages I & II, Castles I & II, Temples I and Islands I (there never was a "II" in either latter case). Each book contains around 50 maps, though the Temples volume doesn't use the same hexagon style and scaling as the rest. Places were allocated to particular base maps from their appearance and content, although changes were made, so sometimes only the overall form of the base map was used in constructing the CC3+ Atlas version.

I reworked a set of tables for randomly generating caves and mines from another old Judges Guild text to decide on the Street lengths, widths, types and layouts, although that system ultimately was more "me" than "JG"!

A few notes were added in the process, but I wanted more, less predictable, aspects too. I turned to two tarot decks, which each coincidentally consist of 78 cards. One card was randomly drawn for each Village, Place and Street from either deck, and extra comments added to the map. The decks were Tarot of the Secret Forest (although this online review page has a lot more images), illustrated by Lucia Mattioli (Lo Scarabeo, 2005), and Shadowscapes Tarot, illustrated by Stephanie Pui-Min Law (Llewellyn Books, 2010). Both are heavily Faerie-inspired in their designs.

For the mapping style, I chose the Fantasy Town one from the January 2021 Cartographer's Annual, as it was ideal for the relatively small areas I needed. It has an attractive dark-wood-look border frame. I've not done much with frames in my Community Atlas mapping so far, so my initial thought was to discard this, but I had a change of mind, and for most of the maps enlarged it as a distinctive aspect. Partly, this was to help tie together all the Embra maps, after adding a series of Celtic-style knotwork and animal designs to the "wooden" frames.

Some of those designs were inspired by the connecting vector symbol options from the Cartographer's Annual Map Border pack (as recently featured in one of the ProFantasy live videos), one of which was used for the final "Official Guide" map. Others were reworked from the copyright-free drawings in Celtic Borders on Layout Grids by Mallory Pearce (Dover Clip-Art Series, 1990), coupled with more found in various online sources. Each Place group and the Village maps gained its own distinct variant, adapting and redrawing which proved a new challenge in itself!

All the maps have written PDF and text file commentaries, as usual too (preparing which took notably longer than the CC3+ mapping!).

I'll be posting notes about the various Places groups on the Forum over the coming weeks, as well as sending Monsen the Atlas items. Next today though, I'll start with a look at the final Official Guide schematic map.

Place 1 from this list is the Freed Haven Floral Garden:

The general layout for all the "Places" maps is much as set by the "Villages" ones earlier, except obviously that the maps are now square (or occasionally rectangular). Although the scales have been retained, the unlabelled compass-rose has been omitted. While that decision was made partly for space reasons, it also follows along from the concept that in Faerie, sizes and directions need not be fixed. Plus the rectilinear borders provide clearer indications for such directions than the round "Village" map edges, should they be needed. The misty map edge is a reminder that the various Places in Embra do not link directly with one another, so visitors could go almost anywhere in the city from one Place to the next.

This map clearly has more detail in its middle than the usual Forum resolution will allow, so a closer view seems useful for that:

With all these maps, the intention is for there to be a toggle in the Atlas FCW version to allow the on-map labels to be turned off for greater clarity, given that sometimes the labels have had to be placed directly over the feature they're marking. There are though no buildings here - for all some elements might looks as if they should be (the accompanying text and PDF files explain more, and what the real nature of the not-buildings is):

To paraphrase from "The Simpsons" TV show, obviously...

"C:/DOS

"C:/DOS/RUN

"RUN/DOS/RUN"

😁

Selecting can be problematic, especially when you have two things that directly overlap one another. Fortunately, there are a number of different options you can select by using CC3+ to identify which of the objects you've selected you actually want to do something with. This post, the accompanying short linked video, and the linked additional post, again all by Remy Monsen, will help with this, whatever issues you're having with selection.

There isn't a global search mechanic across all the add-ons you may have installed, mostly because it's advisable to choose a style to map in, and stick with that, since those items will usually work well with one another in terms of the overall map appearance. That doesn't stop you from bringing in symbols or bitmap fills from other mapping styles, but you'll need to identify what those are when doing so first of all. If you want to see what symbols and bitmap fills you have on your system, the easiest way is to use Windows' File Explorer, and navigate to wherever you have your CC3+ system installed (the standard default is in ProgramData under Profantasy, for instance).