Tale of 2 Cities

I am working on 2 citiees at present. The first is Khelaphet, capital of the Magumul empire in Artemisia (I will also adapt it for my own world of Myirandios).
The second is the beginning of the river city of Thredeos, in Mivlis, on Myirandios. I will also offer it to the Community Atlas somewhere, probably in Artemisia. I have used the attached city plan as a guide.
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Comments

  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    A glutton for punishment?

    One is enough for me ;)

    It seems to be quite organised. Is it some kind of military establishment that outgrew itself?
  • Khelaphet is an island fortress of the Minotaurs, turned capital city. The Minotaurs are both paranoid and militaristic. I am doing this city in conjunction with Jerry Thiel (G'Thiel on this forum). The culture is Sumerian/Babylonian, with a bit of Aztec thrown in (architecture, anyway). Thredeos is based on Threshold of Mystara, though the city map is quite different.
  • For some reason I cannot get the Thredeos map to show properly - here goes another try
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    The watabou plan for Thredeov is quite altered in the map. I guess you are only using it for a very basic idea ;)

    There are some seriously directionally challenged trees on that last map. They appear to be upside down, but I guess we won't tell them that or they might get upset :P
  • Josh.P.Josh.P. Traveler
    It's like your some sort of psycho! One city is a huge task... two is monstrous!

    Super excited to see your end results :)
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    This is the sacred precinct of Khelaphet City with the archives of the Minotaurs on the left. They are highly organized and bureaucratic in nature and tend to keep every cuneiform tablet that they ever create. Yearly, tablets are brought from all the subdivisions of the Empire. Can't wait for Quenten to finish the overall map so I can map out individual areas!!
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Oddly, the forum would not allow me to upload the jpg created by CC3+, so I had to upload a screen shot -- curiouser and curiouser.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    There's a relatively low size limit here. Try around 1024 maximum width ;)
  • 6 days later
  • An updated version of Khelaphet. Hope to finish this in under a week, so Jerry can get a few buildings for it into the Challenge and atlas. Next step is to put all major buildings in, then finish Barracks and Slave quarters.
  • And here is the other update - Thredeov, for my land of Mivlis in Myirandios. Next will be adding the docks, and another quarter.
  • 7 days later
  • And, continuing the tale of 2 cities, by 'What the dickens is that!', the update on Thredeov
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    That's coming on :)

    How does that boat between the bridges get out?
  • It will be moved - alternatively, I might turn it into a prison hulk.
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Invent the lift bridge - Tower Bridge of London - or swinging bridge where roadways rotate out of the way to the side or a tilt bridge where the roadways tilt up via counter weights, or perhaps more interesting, a drop bridge where the roadway drops below the water level along the ship to float over it :-)
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Looks Good!!!

    Canb't wait til you get it done so that I can map more of it in detail.

    Here's my map of location 14, the Serapeum of the Majernus of the Empire.
  • 2 embassies to add - any other important buildings, Jerry?

    i also will fix up the excessive pixelation of various backgrounds, though they do look OK in a larger version than i can show here.

    I am trying to keep all symbols vector based though.

    Any comments on technique or helpful hints - meaning Monsen, Sue, Lorelei and Ladiestorm, wyvern and my other helpful critics.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    Mine is more of a structural consideration.

    Its all looking very interesting - as much as I can tell at this scale, but isn't it a bit risky having more than one causeway? It weakens the city from a defensive point of view, where the enemy can attack along no less then 5 separate routes at the same time. A city on land has no choice but to have as many gates as there are main routes, but the whole point of being on an island is that its isolated... surely?
  • To get to Khelaphet, the enemy has to advance through tens of miles to get to the capital - and then they are met by the incomparable Minotaur army. Like Tenochtitlan, there are more than 1 causeway - here commerce outways a theoretical invasion and siege scenario, Ans no doubt there are drawbridges. Just like having multiple gates in a walled city. Finally, each causeway is defended by massive gate defences - just like in any walled city. Again commerce has precedence over defence to some extent.
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    The closest land enemy is 400 miles away. The Pirates of the area would rather sell slaves to the Empire than attack it.

    Quenten, I would suggest that the legend text font size be increased some. I can't zoom into the map enough to see which embassies you've put on Embassy Isle so I'm not sure which ones you're "missing." I'm somewhat curious as to what the origin of the Aquaduct is, as there are no nearby "mountains" from which to draw the water.

    There should be 2 major Ziggurats and 7 minor ones. I think I count only 6 minors???

    You might consider adding "moles" between Fortress Isle and Prison Isle and Prison Isle and the Pharos to protect the city from any storms coming from the Frigid Sea.
  • Thanks, Jerry, I will fix. Just the advice i needed. The legend will be redone at the end, when i have all in place. But even you will be able to read it, --- with the aid of an electron microscope - :D

    But Sue has drawn my attention to need for drawbridges.
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Instead of drawbridges, how about high arched bridges?
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    I think Quenten was thinking more about the defence of the city than sail boat access? I might be wrong.
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    In case you were not aware, Quenten is creating this map for me for the Magumul Empire for the Atlas Project and for the Realm Works Artemisia project :-)

    Sailing ships will not be allowed by the Minotaurs within the "moat" around the city. Any trading ships must dock and load/unload at the docks on the western side of the bay at the trade ports. The only boat traffic on the Grand Canal will be barges used to transport goods to and from from the city to the docks. I figured it would be less disruptive to the land traffic over the causeways for them to be high bridges that the barges could just be poled under.

    The Minotaurs are not a naval power. They do not like to travel beyond sight of land as they do not swim well -- being heavily muscled, they tend to sink -- glub, glub.

    The water gates will be protected by heavy portcullis that can be lowered in times of threat, which fortunately for the Minotaurs have been rare and it has been a couple of generations since the defenses of the city have been tested by a pirate attack, which was easily routed.

    Here is an image I found online that fits into my conception of how the minotaur "steer" caste would look as they head into combat.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    One of my questions here is one of scale. I measured the smallest villa in the bulls district, and found it to be 30 by 30 meters, which is quite a considerable size, especially for a city so tightly constrained as this one, with both walls and sea preventing any easy expansion outside the walls. Maybe this is as intended, and if so, everything is fine, but I am pointing this out because making things too large is one of the more common mistakes when making a cities (and dungeons).

    I am also curious when I see a separate slave district what the slaves do in this town? If they are household slaves, it is usually far more efficient to quarter them in the households they work (they're going to hang around there all day anyway). If they are some kind of "industrial" slaves however, it is another matter entirely.
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Each of the villas is the home to a Bull, one of the four castes of the Minotaurean society. In their household, their may be several junior bulls who have yet to prove themselves, a group of steers who manage the household, and enough slaves to do the necessary work. Their might be a Cow or two, but most of them are kept in the great herds that forage in the plains. (Cows are at best semi-intelligent, not much more than our own milk cows.) All of these inhabitants require space, especially as Steers tend to be nearly 7 ft tall with really really broad shoulders!! :-)

    Most of the slaves in the city do the manual labor necessary to keep a city viable. Some are municipal slaves that work to keep the streets clean, the streets in repair, and handle the barges. Many belong to craftsmen and do the manufacturing and work in the skilled trades. It was found early on in the city's history to allow the slaves as much freedom as could be given and let them have their own quarter to run as they will, under the guidance and control of Steer overseers. Unlike many human societies where slaves are worked hard and used up, for the Minotaurs, slaves are a valuable commodity and are well cared for, as who would willingly destroy their assets?

    I've attached a pdf that gives the Minotaurs' creation mythology and a description of their castes. (Their mythology differs from reality as in Quenten's concept, a group of babylonians arrived through a "gate" onto the northern coast of Artemisia, where they became infected by a plague created by the Drow Queen of the Night, who was attempting to wipe out this new vermin. Most died from the plague, but those that didn't were transformed in body into what are now known as the Minotaurs.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    That makes me want to write a story about a Princess Xena type minotaur :P
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Here's a pic I found that looks somewhat like how a Cow looks, with the addition of a more human looking head. :-)
  • Minotaurs, being almost 1.7 x taller than humans, and very bulky to boot, the villas, which are like palaces for each Bull, are indeed meant to be that large. However, the buildings in the crafstmen district are smaller, and represent multistorey multifunction buildings. Most modern houses are more than 100 sq m (at least in Australia) even in cities. In this city, size has to be bigger to accommodate the minotaurs, and also to allow for apartment type structures. Obviously, villas and other important structures are large.
    on a different note, i think drawbridges with towers will be the go rather than arched bridges.
    I have not used directional shadows, as this is a vector based top down plan. Hopefully, smaller district plans (done by persons other than me!) will be both more detailed and show such details as shadows.
    The Slave District is a barracks type arrangement, with workshop areas, for some of them, as per jerry's instructions. He has given his rationale above.

    But do keep up the comments, i find them helpful and make me consider a few things I hadn't before (like defences of each causeway)
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