At this zoom, you can see why I'm not so sure about it. The edges are very rough, and try though I might, I haven't yet come up with a solution to the problem. That's just the way the bevel effect (unlighted) works.
EDIT: and I think we might just have another of those... floating island discussions coming up, regarding the way the bottom bevelled sheet doesn't seem to me to be sat all that well on the sand of the beach. LOL
Hmm.....i see what you mean about the jagged edges....I DO love this though. Have you tried leaving the bottom layer (Sheet) of the cliff unbeveled to see if that helps with the "floating" Or a greyish/beige gravel layer (again sheet - i like the word layer i cant help myself) between the cliffs and that white sand? It seems that the sand/dirt around the cliffs might be a different texture than the white sands of the flats. Just food for thought. But, anyway...i think the jagged edges are unavoidable and since they ARE cliffs its believable in this case
Why thank you Lorelei. That's an excellent idea. Gravel it is, then
I put the bevel on the bottom sheet after struggling unsuccessfully to make it look like a lump of similar rock by other means. Various glows, both inner and outer, and HSL adjustments just didn't seem to work. It always looked too different to the rock of the cliffs. Maybe I will reduce the bevel on the bottom layer just a bit, as if its half buried in the sand, and a layer (yes, I have the same problem because I use CorelDraw, and that uses layers), of grit around the base, like the cliffs have a tendency to crumble at times. Come to think of it, we have miles and miles of coastal cliff formations in Dorset (a lot of them limestone like this one is supposed to be), and I don't recall ever seeing a cliff that didn't have some kind of rubble at the bottom of it, so that would probably solve the 'floating island' problem just by making it feel a bit more natural.
I might also experiment with a more extreme rock texture, like the one I had before, because now it won't be so hard on the eye because its mostly covered in grass. Doing that would hide the stark contrast that currently exists between where the bevel is mostly smooth, and then suddenly jags a few pin-sharp highlights at you on some of the corners. That, in particular, is what is making me feel uncomfortable about the way it looks right now.
I've seen a lot of maps that use the multi-level terrain [sheet] approach to create elevation but adding the bevel gives it a new, nifty, appearance. Nicely done. I particularly like the grass you added so it peeks out in places along the slopes.
You're welcome. It's an eerily pretty map. I'll be honest, though, I'm still scratching my head over the scale. I curiously await the cityscape itself to bring it all together.
You aren't the only one who can't figure it out yet! LOL I took the tracks I previously added out of the picture because I was starting to make everything far too big (which meant that they were far to big themselves). I wish I was more systematic about these things, but I just don't seem to be made that way.
At the risk of starting the same old conversation all over again about how big a city should be, I don't know what the population is, because that depends on the size of the island, which in turn depends on the scale of the landscape, which in turn depends on how small I can paste a house symbol into the map without it looking like a bit of dirt that somehow got in the eye of the bird that's taking the shot for me.
There's nothing wrong with tiny buildings if that's the scale of the map. You're not (or it's highly recommended that you don't try) creating a full-scale city map that can be zoomed in to battle map detail.
And, while you can definitely create a city using just CC3, if you can scrape together the money, I highly recommend City Designer 3. The tools it has are immensely powerful and extraordinarily helpful.
It was my 50th birthday not long ago, and one of my friends bought me a really nice present - DD3, so I was able to go and buy CD3 to complete the set ;-)
However, that doesn't mean that I've had a lot of time to get used to the controls just yet. We'll see what happens once I'm satisfied I have a decent enough island to build this city on *)
Thank you, Dogtag - special emoticon appreciated *)
Earlier, I was going to say if I ever get this island off the ground... but I think its already floating and is rather in need of some rubble to weigh it down a bit!
Have to go and do some rubble generating. Back later
This is looking great Sue!!! I particularly LOVE those jagged edges in your cliffs!
for the gravel... there are a couple of ways you can do it... there are quite a few gravel and rubble bitmap fills, with an edge fade could work... or, if you have the CSUAC (and if you don't, I highly recommend you get it, there's a download here, and it's free), there is all kinds of pre-generated rubble that you could choose from. Based on the hues of your cliff, there is probably something in there you can work with... it might save you some time.
EDIT: Sorry Ladiestorm - chopped the front half of the message off and didn't even realise it for an hour! What I meant to say was:
Thank you Storm, I've been looking at this all afternoon and not really getting very far with it, but don't you worry - I didn't mean 'generate some rubble in the literal sense! As for gravel - ...
Way ahead of you there. Got CSUAC, and Bogie - the full works, but even GIANT gravel in abundance all around the foot of the cliff isn't working!
I'll continue to play with the set up a bit, then when I either give up or succeed, I'll upload another shot for you all
I was having trouble with the land looking like it was floating over the sand, and I wasn't 100% happy with the bevel effect on the cliffs, so I didn't add any more to the map. I don't want to go too far down that road if its wrong in the end. I messed around with different textures for the cliffs and found what I think is a better one, since it doesn't show those sharp little flicks of greater contrast on the sharper bends of the bevel quite so much.
I think a little more work with the vegetation sandwiched between the layers of the cliff should ease the stepped appearance a bit, but I'm not really working at that level of detail just yet.
The gravel? well, it was Lorelei's idea, and it really rocks! its weighing the island down to the sand and attaching it quite nicely. A rather unexpected but pleasing side effect is the way it appears to sink beneath the waterline and lie on the floor of the bay.
The composition of the map as a whole was pretty satisfactory, but I realised the city was going to be only about half the area of the map, so I enlarged the island and shifted the whole image south west to place its centre at the centre of the map (or more or less).
Also drafted in the grass to give an overall effect. Its very crude at the moment and resembles in many ways those cardboard layer-cake type models we used to make from contour maps at school, but these are still very early days, and there is still a lot of blending to be done.
i have a suggestion.....perhaps between your cliffs and the grasses covering you should have just a slight dirt layer? It just seems odd to me that grass is growing so fully on all those rocks and no soil. Sorry if i just opened a can of worms for you....just thinking....
Posted By: LadieStormSue, this is looking absolutely fantastic!!! I like the gradient colors,. The ocean is beautiful, I'm waiting to see what the city looks like!
Thanks Storm... and I'm still thinking about the terraced city idea LOL Jim really has no idea what he's started ;-)
Posted By: Loreleii have a suggestion.....perhaps between your cliffs and the grasses covering you should have just a slight dirt layer? It just seems odd to me that grass is growing so fully on all those rocks and no soil. Sorry if i just opened a can of worms for you....just thinking....
All thinkers welcome here, Lorelei. You're right, of course, its just that I hadn't gotten around to doing much more than simply marking the terraces with a base colour, just to identify them as what they are. Before I put the grass on I was having to count up the tiers to know what level I was on every minute or so. It was getting to the point where it was driving me crazy! LOL Have no fear, the next version (which will most likely be tomorrow now that I've been called away for most of the day) will have far more variation, at least in the parts I will have had time to work on :-)
Oh Charles! How on Earth do you do one of those? I'm no good at teaching. LOL
I went to go to a party this evening - one that was partly being held in my honour, though I was forced to come back early - hayfever meant I could hardly breathe in the heat, and had to escape to be able to drive home again before I had an asthma attack.
I've not really been able to do much more today, other than fiddle a bit with the shadows and add a couple of buildings to the north... also the partial city wall. The latter caused a bit of a problem, because it was a new symbol I made for myself, and that's when I fell down the Update 7 hole and had to down tools to do update 8. Ran out of time shortly after that
Will upload a close up of the wall in a minute, because it just looks like a strange double line on this one.
Comments
At this zoom, you can see why I'm not so sure about it. The edges are very rough, and try though I might, I haven't yet come up with a solution to the problem. That's just the way the bevel effect (unlighted) works.
EDIT: and I think we might just have another of those... floating island discussions coming up, regarding the way the bottom bevelled sheet doesn't seem to me to be sat all that well on the sand of the beach. LOL
I put the bevel on the bottom sheet after struggling unsuccessfully to make it look like a lump of similar rock by other means. Various glows, both inner and outer, and HSL adjustments just didn't seem to work. It always looked too different to the rock of the cliffs. Maybe I will reduce the bevel on the bottom layer just a bit, as if its half buried in the sand, and a layer (yes, I have the same problem because I use CorelDraw, and that uses layers), of grit around the base, like the cliffs have a tendency to crumble at times. Come to think of it, we have miles and miles of coastal cliff formations in Dorset (a lot of them limestone like this one is supposed to be), and I don't recall ever seeing a cliff that didn't have some kind of rubble at the bottom of it, so that would probably solve the 'floating island' problem just by making it feel a bit more natural.
I might also experiment with a more extreme rock texture, like the one I had before, because now it won't be so hard on the eye because its mostly covered in grass. Doing that would hide the stark contrast that currently exists between where the bevel is mostly smooth, and then suddenly jags a few pin-sharp highlights at you on some of the corners. That, in particular, is what is making me feel uncomfortable about the way it looks right now.
Thanks for your help, Lorelei
Cheers,
~Dogtag
Scale? What scale?
You aren't the only one who can't figure it out yet! LOL I took the tracks I previously added out of the picture because I was starting to make everything far too big (which meant that they were far to big themselves). I wish I was more systematic about these things, but I just don't seem to be made that way.
At the risk of starting the same old conversation all over again about how big a city should be, I don't know what the population is, because that depends on the size of the island, which in turn depends on the scale of the landscape, which in turn depends on how small I can paste a house symbol into the map without it looking like a bit of dirt that somehow got in the eye of the bird that's taking the shot for me.
And, while you can definitely create a city using just CC3, if you can scrape together the money, I highly recommend City Designer 3. The tools it has are immensely powerful and extraordinarily helpful.
*Ahem. To be clear, I'm referring to player characters, not players.
However, that doesn't mean that I've had a lot of time to get used to the controls just yet. We'll see what happens once I'm satisfied I have a decent enough island to build this city on *)
Cheers!
~Dogtag
Earlier, I was going to say if I ever get this island off the ground... but I think its already floating and is rather in need of some rubble to weigh it down a bit!
Have to go and do some rubble generating. Back later
for the gravel... there are a couple of ways you can do it... there are quite a few gravel and rubble bitmap fills, with an edge fade could work... or, if you have the CSUAC (and if you don't, I highly recommend you get it, there's a download here, and it's free), there is all kinds of pre-generated rubble that you could choose from. Based on the hues of your cliff, there is probably something in there you can work with... it might save you some time.
Thank you Storm, I've been looking at this all afternoon and not really getting very far with it, but don't you worry - I didn't mean 'generate some rubble in the literal sense! As for gravel - ...
Way ahead of you there. Got CSUAC, and Bogie - the full works, but even GIANT gravel in abundance all around the foot of the cliff isn't working!
I'll continue to play with the set up a bit, then when I either give up or succeed, I'll upload another shot for you all
Gravel ROCKS! Oh yeah...
I was having trouble with the land looking like it was floating over the sand, and I wasn't 100% happy with the bevel effect on the cliffs, so I didn't add any more to the map. I don't want to go too far down that road if its wrong in the end. I messed around with different textures for the cliffs and found what I think is a better one, since it doesn't show those sharp little flicks of greater contrast on the sharper bends of the bevel quite so much.
I think a little more work with the vegetation sandwiched between the layers of the cliff should ease the stepped appearance a bit, but I'm not really working at that level of detail just yet.
The gravel? well, it was Lorelei's idea, and it really rocks! its weighing the island down to the sand and attaching it quite nicely. A rather unexpected but pleasing side effect is the way it appears to sink beneath the waterline and lie on the floor of the bay.
Gravel most definitely rocks, Lorelei. Thank you!
Redesign.
The composition of the map as a whole was pretty satisfactory, but I realised the city was going to be only about half the area of the map, so I enlarged the island and shifted the whole image south west to place its centre at the centre of the map (or more or less).
Also drafted in the grass to give an overall effect. Its very crude at the moment and resembles in many ways those cardboard layer-cake type models we used to make from contour maps at school, but these are still very early days, and there is still a lot of blending to be done.
I'm about half way to actually starting the city with this map, working on the theory that if I get the land right first, the city will follow
Thanks Lorelei :-)
I just have to figure out a way of taking off those edges without actually losing them altogether. Only then can I let the architects and builders in!
D'you know what, I was just going to say "but that isn't how it is with Merelan", but now I'm thinking about it...
We'll see ;-)
Tutorial please. :-)
I went to go to a party this evening - one that was partly being held in my honour, though I was forced to come back early - hayfever meant I could hardly breathe in the heat, and had to escape to be able to drive home again before I had an asthma attack.
I've not really been able to do much more today, other than fiddle a bit with the shadows and add a couple of buildings to the north... also the partial city wall. The latter caused a bit of a problem, because it was a new symbol I made for myself, and that's when I fell down the Update 7 hole and had to down tools to do update 8. Ran out of time shortly after that
Will upload a close up of the wall in a minute, because it just looks like a strange double line on this one.