I've put the first sheet of ocean in - the shallows. Much of this pale green-blue ocean will be covered by further layers of deep water away from the island, and a line of surf will be shown at the shoreline where the rocks meet the water, but for now this single sheet will suffice to show the shape of the sea and the land put back together now that I have finished working on the shape of the land mass. This image is turning out to be a bit of a hybrid of different styles. The sand is a pale version of Bogies sand, the rock is Dundjinni cliff, and the water is my favourite so far - Herwin Weilink.
I think its worth pointing out here that I never regard anything about a drawing as being finished until the whole drawing starts to pull together by means of a thousand different tweaks towards the end, so where you see things that don't really work all that well together right now, these will gradually be adjusted as I work through towards that point of completion. I don't worry about textures noticeably repeating themselves (as with the cliff texture in the landmass) because worrying about something that is due to be covered up almost entirely by the next layer to go on the land is in my opinion a waste of time at this early stage.
If I get to Mars, I'll make real burgers just like we had when I was a kid. Half pound of meat, mustard, lettuce, tomato, small pickle slice, and an onion slice. On a bun.
Posted By: LoopysueI think its worth pointing out here that I never regard anything about a drawing as being finished until the whole drawing starts to pull together by means of a thousand different tweaks towards the end, so where you see things that don't really work all that well together right now, these will gradually be adjusted as I work through towards that point of completion. I don't worry about textures noticeably repeating themselves (as with the cliff texture in the landmass) because worrying about something that is due to be covered up almost entirely by the next layer to go on the land is in my opinion a waste of time at this early stage.
I certainly agree. Watching your map go together is quite interesting!
Posted By: LoreleiOk. NOW I see it Already your water coming up to the shoreline is artfully done - with ONE layer. Artist
All I'm doing is just sticking other people's art in various arrangements, Lorelei. Apart from the obvious Hue Saturation Lightness effect on the water sheet, and a Colour Key to knock out the holes for the islands, there is only an edge fade inner effect, and its only different because the outer transparency is set to 20, rather than 0. I've attached a close up screen shot for anyone who wants to get the same effect. HSL settings are very much a matter of personal taste. I happen to like my seas vivid, but then, I live by the coast and the sea is a HUGE presence in my life. I actually get horribly land sick if I live too far away from it for more than a few months - kind of sleepy and not very alert. I don't have to see it all the time, just bathe in the salt air that penetrates about 30 miles inland.
Posted By: JimPIf I get to Mars, I'll make real burgers just like we had when I was a kid. Half pound of meat, mustard, lettuce, tomato, small pickle slice, and an onion slice. On a bun.
Now you're making me feel hungry, Jim! My stomach is actually growling now LOL. I shall have to go and have breakfast before I do any more work.
Posted By: Vintyri
Posted By: LoopysueI think its worth pointing out here that I never regard anything about a drawing as being finished until the whole drawing starts to pull together by means of a thousand different tweaks towards the end, so where you see things that don't really work all that well together right now, these will gradually be adjusted as I work through towards that point of completion. I don't worry about textures noticeably repeating themselves (as with the cliff texture in the landmass) because worrying about something that is due to be covered up almost entirely by the next layer to go on the land is in my opinion a waste of time at this early stage.
I certainly agree. Watching your map go together is quite interesting!
Thanks Vintyri. I was hoping to show people that it really isn't all that difficult to make a Sue-style map. However, not even I know if things are going to turn out all right in the end, because I've never done a city before (and trust me to start with a more or less vertical one!). I seem to have had a few lucky breaks at the outset. If things just don't seem to come together after a couple of weeks of trying, I may have to call this a failure - but that's when I look to you guys for further inspiration ;-)
I'm beginning to think that map art can only really be successfully done as a community event - what with all the objects I borrow and steal, and all the advice I find so useful. LOL
Oceans, I've been on a few. The Carribean is a bright, or deep and dark, blue in areas. The north Atlantic is a dark green. I don't remember what color the Med is...
It depends on the light, the angle of the light, the clarity of the water, even the temperature of the water (which affects how much green or red algae is present) Water can be any number of colours, which is really convenient for us mappers, because unless you create a pink ocean, you can never be told that its wrong. I prefer tropical turquoise shallow waters. The colour is just amazing, but I tend to bend the colours to suit the map. I will be uploading a newer version of this later on this evening, once I've added a bit more to it for a bit of interest. It looks to me already as if this map is going to end up being a blue and gold one - a bit like the original Ethran map.
Version 6... I thought I'd better start numbering these, or we might get a bit confused somewhere down the line.
I've got the colours of the ocean the way I want them, but the contours are slightly off. There needs to be a much steeper drop into the depths where the rocks disappear into the waves without any beach (I think). I don't really know for sure. Its one of those things I'll probably see straight away tomorrow morning.
I added a wet sand Sheet over the beach area and used it to create damp channels across the salt marsh/market area. Think I've just about got the colour right.
I've started adding HSL altered Bogie grass to the Flats, where the fish market is, but I'm not happy with the paths through it - too wide, evenly spaced and well laid out. I have a feeling this is going to take me a very long time to complete, because to do finer detail I'm going to have to knock off the edge fade altogether and set about drawing individual clumps. Everything on this map is a lot tinier and more detailed than I first thought it was going to be, but then, I do have to fit an entire city on the island!
Let me know if you have any thoughts on what I've done so far?
Posted By: LoopysueVersion 6... Let me know if you have any thoughts on what I've done so far?
Sure. The process is fascinating to watch. There's not a whole lot more to say at this point, because one doesn't know where it's going to go yet. That, of course, makes the watching process even more fascinating!
Ok. This is version 7.... well... um... part of it. The top left hand quarter of it to be exact.
We all have our little ways with maps, and I'm afraid one of mine is to start fiddling with the details waaaay too soon.
Nothing much has changed over the rest of the map, except that I have changed the land texture to something altogether more soothing - a nice fake limestone effect
I started to mess around with the idea of using bevels for the cliffs, and spent a great deal of time trying to add bevel layer upon bevel layer, getting gradually more and more frustrated. But then I suddenly just hit it somehow by adding the first layers of dry grass and accidentally overlapping an underlying bevel layer. This is shown in the top right hand corner to best effect. Unfortunately I only discovered this about half an hour ago, so I haven't really managed to take advantage of the effect. I got kind of distracted with perfecting the little paths through the shanty town and trying to make them look realistic, and then I got distracted by the placement of trees and tents and the shadows they cast... and so on, and so forth.
I don't usually cover the page in orange grass, but got a bit carried away LOL. Don't know whether I will leave it that way, or turn it a bit more yellow and traditional.
I think the orange grass looks nice as far as colors are concerned, but it doesn't communicate to me at all what kind of terrain that's supposed to represent. Orange grass? If so, what is orange grass? Once I know that, I probably will have a better idea of what I think.
I also think that the water probably is the best I've ever seen on an RPG map, but the beveled areas with steeps sides and totally flat tops strike me as being a bit strange.
Wow Vintyri, you must have been lurking around the forum even while I was posting the latest shot. LOL
Thanks for the water comment
The orange grass represents the marshy/borderline land sea area, but this is a drought, so it definitely isn't green, in fact its not even really a marsh any more, but just a space of desiccated flat land between the mainland and the island.
I'm going to work with the bevels just a little longer before I give up with that idea. I think they should probably be completely covered over the top with grass. Its an adaptation of Shessar's famous cliff technique - one that I'm hoping will mean that I won't have to go around the entire island about ten times over, pasting hundreds of thousands of symbol rocks all over the place. LOL
Oh I'd be useless at it Charles. I'm not so keen on the ordinary bevel because it doesn't give a true shadow - one that's directional according to the global sun, and I don't even know what the Edge Fade is for on the lighted bevel. It doesn't seem to do anything on my machine.
EDIT: Can anyone else tell me what it does, please? It doesn't appear in my copy of the manual. Everything else is listed there - bevel size, Intensity, Lightness Base, Lightness Range, Smoothing, Global sun settings... but not the edge fade.
I've been unbelievably busy today... sorting out 24 different shades of grass
These are for the ten cliff levels I will need to create the island properly. Although I really liked my orange grass I know where the inspiration came from, and its a completely different kind of map. With this city map I should be more interested in the city plan and not so distracted by all the pretty colours! LOL
The long lines of grass at the bottom of this picture are the standard healthy grasses (short and long) to be used near waterways. The rest are a series of gradations up to the driest peak of the island from right to left.
Thanks Vintyri. I know how much you didn't really like that orange, but I came to the same conclusion in the end. I'll save it for another day - maybe have a world with orange grass and purple trees
This is the top right hand corner reworked. (its a smaller area, not even 1/4 of the map)
I got rid of the mainland coastline because it wasn't working as a background for the very large salt marsh area, that makes up the Flats. Roads, trees and shanty towns will all have to be added back in, but this was what I was trying to create before.
Things sometimes change quite drastically in my maps. I work on the principle that nothing is sacred.
The bulk of the texture is the moss tile I uploaded some time ago (its here again for you). I drew all the little pieces by hand with the freehand drawing tool, then converted them to polygons (right click the fractalise tool to find the command). I copied the polygons to a new sheet above that one and changed the fill to Bogie's long grass (Grass 02 BG I think), with a reverse edge fade, so that it's 100 percent at the edge, but fades out into the middle, and appears to line the waterways. The HSL on both sheets was changed to create the colour shades you see in the image above.
All very simple really - it just took me DAYS to think of it, and then it was one of those "Oh yeah.... DOH!" moments.
LOL
Edit: I made this myself, by the way, so there's no problem with using it. I only object to people making money from work that is meant to be my free gift to the world.
Slow going. Its all those wiggly bits in the salt marsh, but at least its done now.
Small point - something doesn't feel right. I don't know whether its a scale issue, or what, but I'm open to comment.
How big should a bridge be? I mean a plank bridge for example, in comparison with the size of the salt marsh gullies. Would you think that the three main river systems running through this marsh might be crossed on a simple plank bridge, or would a much more substantial stone bridge be required?
How wide are the rivers? What is the scale of your map? I'm not an engineer, but I would think a plank bridge could span almost any distance given enough support piles, though I presume they'd become impractical at certain lengths or heights.
Posted By: DogtagHow wide are the rivers? What is the scale of your map? I'm not an engineer, but I would think a plank bridge could span almost any distance given enough support piles, though I presume they'd become impractical at certain lengths or heights.
You know me, Dogtag - I've no idea, except that the trees are stunted marsh trees, and probably have a spread of only about 50 ft, if that.
Posted By: ShessarIn Georgia in the US, there are wooden bridges that span long distances across the marshes.Hereis an example.
Ah. I hadn't thought of that! Shows how often I go down to the local marsh in Weymouth. They have those things there.
You're a genius Shessar. Now I can have them everywhere between all the shanty towns
EDIT: I'm also only half awake - that's kind of what you were hinting at anyway, wasn't it Dogtag. thank you - both of you. I can get on with things now
Not sure what I really think of it yet. This one uses false lighting, so I have to arrange the global sun so that it strikes the rest of the map in the right direction to agree with the false lighting of the bevel.
The cliff technique is based on Shessar's classic cliff technique, modified by the bevel.
Sorry - no bridges yet. I got distracted by the pontoons and made a harbour instead!
Comments
I think its worth pointing out here that I never regard anything about a drawing as being finished until the whole drawing starts to pull together by means of a thousand different tweaks towards the end, so where you see things that don't really work all that well together right now, these will gradually be adjusted as I work through towards that point of completion. I don't worry about textures noticeably repeating themselves (as with the cliff texture in the landmass) because worrying about something that is due to be covered up almost entirely by the next layer to go on the land is in my opinion a waste of time at this early stage.
I'm beginning to think that map art can only really be successfully done as a community event - what with all the objects I borrow and steal, and all the advice I find so useful. LOL
I've got the colours of the ocean the way I want them, but the contours are slightly off. There needs to be a much steeper drop into the depths where the rocks disappear into the waves without any beach (I think). I don't really know for sure. Its one of those things I'll probably see straight away tomorrow morning.
I added a wet sand Sheet over the beach area and used it to create damp channels across the salt marsh/market area. Think I've just about got the colour right.
I've started adding HSL altered Bogie grass to the Flats, where the fish market is, but I'm not happy with the paths through it - too wide, evenly spaced and well laid out. I have a feeling this is going to take me a very long time to complete, because to do finer detail I'm going to have to knock off the edge fade altogether and set about drawing individual clumps. Everything on this map is a lot tinier and more detailed than I first thought it was going to be, but then, I do have to fit an entire city on the island!
Let me know if you have any thoughts on what I've done so far?
Thanks
I'll post another update this evening
We all have our little ways with maps, and I'm afraid one of mine is to start fiddling with the details waaaay too soon.
Nothing much has changed over the rest of the map, except that I have changed the land texture to something altogether more soothing - a nice fake limestone effect
I started to mess around with the idea of using bevels for the cliffs, and spent a great deal of time trying to add bevel layer upon bevel layer, getting gradually more and more frustrated. But then I suddenly just hit it somehow by adding the first layers of dry grass and accidentally overlapping an underlying bevel layer. This is shown in the top right hand corner to best effect. Unfortunately I only discovered this about half an hour ago, so I haven't really managed to take advantage of the effect. I got kind of distracted with perfecting the little paths through the shanty town and trying to make them look realistic, and then I got distracted by the placement of trees and tents and the shadows they cast... and so on, and so forth.
I don't usually cover the page in orange grass, but got a bit carried away LOL. Don't know whether I will leave it that way, or turn it a bit more yellow and traditional.
What do you think?
I also think that the water probably is the best I've ever seen on an RPG map, but the beveled areas with steeps sides and totally flat tops strike me as being a bit strange.
Nix für Ungut! Happy Sunday.
Thanks for the water comment
The orange grass represents the marshy/borderline land sea area, but this is a drought, so it definitely isn't green, in fact its not even really a marsh any more, but just a space of desiccated flat land between the mainland and the island.
I'm going to work with the bevels just a little longer before I give up with that idea. I think they should probably be completely covered over the top with grass. Its an adaptation of Shessar's famous cliff technique - one that I'm hoping will mean that I won't have to go around the entire island about ten times over, pasting hundreds of thousands of symbol rocks all over the place. LOL
Have a great Sunday yourself
Now it is your turn to make a tutorial on how to make the bevel affect. LoL! :-)
EDIT: Can anyone else tell me what it does, please? It doesn't appear in my copy of the manual. Everything else is listed there - bevel size, Intensity, Lightness Base, Lightness Range, Smoothing, Global sun settings... but not the edge fade.
These are for the ten cliff levels I will need to create the island properly. Although I really liked my orange grass I know where the inspiration came from, and its a completely different kind of map. With this city map I should be more interested in the city plan and not so distracted by all the pretty colours! LOL
The long lines of grass at the bottom of this picture are the standard healthy grasses (short and long) to be used near waterways. The rest are a series of gradations up to the driest peak of the island from right to left.
This is the top right hand corner reworked. (its a smaller area, not even 1/4 of the map)
I got rid of the mainland coastline because it wasn't working as a background for the very large salt marsh area, that makes up the Flats. Roads, trees and shanty towns will all have to be added back in, but this was what I was trying to create before.
Things sometimes change quite drastically in my maps. I work on the principle that nothing is sacred.
"unless you create a pink ocean, you can never be told that its wrong"
Lakes, though, are another story entirely ( one example being shown at http://www.australia.com/en/places/wa/pink-lake.html )
The bulk of the texture is the moss tile I uploaded some time ago (its here again for you). I drew all the little pieces by hand with the freehand drawing tool, then converted them to polygons (right click the fractalise tool to find the command). I copied the polygons to a new sheet above that one and changed the fill to Bogie's long grass (Grass 02 BG I think), with a reverse edge fade, so that it's 100 percent at the edge, but fades out into the middle, and appears to line the waterways. The HSL on both sheets was changed to create the colour shades you see in the image above.
All very simple really - it just took me DAYS to think of it, and then it was one of those "Oh yeah.... DOH!" moments.
LOL
Edit: I made this myself, by the way, so there's no problem with using it. I only object to people making money from work that is meant to be my free gift to the world.
Slow going. Its all those wiggly bits in the salt marsh, but at least its done now.
Small point - something doesn't feel right. I don't know whether its a scale issue, or what, but I'm open to comment.
How big should a bridge be? I mean a plank bridge for example, in comparison with the size of the salt marsh gullies. Would you think that the three main river systems running through this marsh might be crossed on a simple plank bridge, or would a much more substantial stone bridge be required?
You're a genius Shessar. Now I can have them everywhere between all the shanty towns
EDIT: I'm also only half awake - that's kind of what you were hinting at anyway, wasn't it Dogtag. thank you - both of you. I can get on with things now
An experiment with a different kind of bevel...
Not sure what I really think of it yet. This one uses false lighting, so I have to arrange the global sun so that it strikes the rest of the map in the right direction to agree with the false lighting of the bevel.
The cliff technique is based on Shessar's classic cliff technique, modified by the bevel.
Sorry - no bridges yet. I got distracted by the pontoons and made a harbour instead!