Importing my Traveller Sector Data in Cosmographer

Hi. I purchased cc3 and cosmographer today in order to make my own Traveller subsector and sector maps, and world maps. However, I'm a little confused and Cosmographer doesn't really come with a real manual.

I have sector data. How do I import it into Cosmographer to make a sector map? It's starting to sound to me like it can only import existing data from TravellerMap, which of course is not going to be useful for my original material.

[Also, I'm curious, from something I saw reading old messages: is it true that all the Traveller stuff in Comsographer is outdated and doesn't conform to current map conventions?]

[Also also, it is possible to generate fractal world maps with the Traveller map format?]

My first question above is the one I am most concerned about.

Thanks. :)

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  • edited October 2022

    Hi Egavactip, and welcome!

    I still consider myself fairly new to CC3+ and Cosmographer, so maybe someone else will point out errors or misconceptions of my own.

    [...] Cosmographer doesn't really come with a real manual.

    There is a guide, thought I can't tell if you haven't found it yet or if you find it too short to answer your questions. In case it's the former, you should find it in the Documentation folder in your Program Data folder. In my case it's at:

    "C:\ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus\Documentation\Cos3EssentialsGuide.pdf"
    

    Moving on to your main question, I do believe the "Traveller Sector Import" wizard currently only works by fetching data from travellermap.com, as explained in a sidebar on page 18 of the guide:

    Available Sectors

    Cosmographer 3 retrieves the world data from the the Travellermap.com website. Therefore you need an active internet connection for the data import to work.

    If you want to place all symbols yourself (manually) you can still use the templates named "Cosmographer Sector Vector" or "Cosmographer Sector Bitmap".

    But, if you want to skip all of the tedium of placing everything by hand, I'll yield to see if someone else knows if it's possible. I vaguely recall someone mentioning what it would take, but a quick search didn't yield anything resembling that idea on the back of my mind. And since I'm also fairly new to Traveller, I haven't delved into custom sector building.

    Finally...

    I have sector data.

    In what format do you have this data?

    EDIT: Regarding this question:

    [Also also, it is possible to generate fractal world maps with the Traveller map format?]

    I found this two year old comment from JimP:

    In FT3 I use the File menu -> Export World -> Cosmographer template. The export is a CC3 map with png. Place at the top says 'World Name' and at the bottom for UWP.

    Egavactip
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 275 images Cartographer
    edited October 2022

    Yes, I make my own sub-sector and sector maps. An alternate Traveller universe.

    Once you export the file from ft3/ft3+, I save it as a number.

    I then open it using cc3/cc3+, and place a name instead of World Name.

    I then place that name on the sub and sector maps.

    I suggest a spreadsheet to keep track of which map, the UWP, etc.

    A few hours before sunrise, I don't think I made any typos.

    Edit: fixed the link.

    Egavactip
  • Thanks for the info--re format, the standard Traveller format, like the below (which looks weird because it appears here in a font rather than ascii text):

    #--------1---------2---------3---------4---------5-------

    #PlanetName  Loc. UPP Code  B  Notes        Z PBG Al

    #----------  ---- --------- - --------------- - --- --

    route 2712 2510

    route 2712 2814

    route 2716 2913

    route 2913 3212

    route 3212 3511

    route 2913 3108

    route 2716 2814

    route 2716 2417

    route 2520 2418

    route 2520 2621

    Kinorb       2512 C449433-9   Ni                502 Im

    Gileden      2514 C483103-6   Lo Ni             203 Im    

    Plannet      2519 E9C5677-7   Ni Fl             224 Im

    Garrincski   2520 B632520-7 S Ni Po             410 Im

    Macene       2612 B000453-E N Ni As             911 Im    

    Fulacin      2613 A674210-D   Lo Ni             810 Im

    NATOKO       2620 C8879AB-9   Hi                204 Im

    Risek        2712 A325579-A N Ni                401 Im

    POROZLO      2715 A867A74-B   Hi                201 Im

    RHYLANOR     2716 A434934-F A Hi Cp             810 Im    

    Loneseda     2720 C86A215-7   Lo Ni Wa          705 Im

    Valhalla     2811 E365432-5   Ni                622 Im

    ZIVIJE       2812 C6B199C-B   Hi Fl          A 421 Im

    Jae Tellona  2814 A560565-8 N Ni De             913 Im

    Gerome       2818 X573000-0   Lo Ni Ba       R 701 Im    

    Henoz        2912 A245543-B   C0 Ag Ni          824 Im

    Celepina     2913 B434456-9 A Ni                201 Im    

    Gitosy       2918 B000676-9   Na Ni As          620 Im

    Belizo       3015 B895646-5   Ag Ni             923 Im    

    Kegena       3016 E869569-3   Ni             A 224 Im

    Heroni       3017 E7A0614-3   Ni De             820 Im

    457-973      3019 X372215-4   Lo Ni          R 534 Im

    Somem        3020 C301340-B   Lo Ni Va Ic       201 Im

    Vinorian     3111 B879610-9   Ni                610 Im

    Nutema       3112 B864310-8 N Lo Ni             822 Im

    Huderu       3114 X575000-0   Lo Ni Ba       R 920 Im

    Cipatwe      3118 B35879A-6   Ag                623 Im

    Vanejen      3119 C686854-5   C4 Ri             520 Im

    Margesi      3212 A576257-C A Lo Ni             920 Im

    BEVEY        3216 D4209CC-A S Hi Na In Po De    224 Im

    Tacaxeb      3218 C230411-B   Ni Po De          801 Im

    Powaza       3220 C787566-5   Ag Ni             332 Im

  • So you are saying you can *import* your own sector or subsector data into Cosmographer?

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer

    The sector import is mainly designed to work with official Traveller data, it was kind of assumed that people making custom stuff would draw the map themselves when this was made.

    However, it is possible to point it at your own webserver instead of travellermap.com, and thus import the that way. Just make sure the webserver returns data exactly as the travellermap would do.

    You'll find the configuration files in @System\Traveller\. Just make a copy of the example.cfg file there and edit it in a text editor, the data sources are at the top of the file. (Or use the more updated config file Ralf posted here.)


    Note that I have never done this myself, so I don't have much additional data. I am not a Traveller player myself. But I know others have done this in the past.

    Egavactip
  • I don't import, I just place planet symbols, with names, on maps.

    Egavactip
  • Thanks for your response. From my perspective, the problem with "designed to work with official Traveller data" is TravellerMap already can create maps of that for people (posters, booklets, etc.), so that's actually much less needed than the ability to import anybody's data.

    I don't own a webserver, so I guess that workaround doesn't work for me.

    I wish Profantasy was more open in its cosmographer pages about what it can't do. I probably would not have purchased it. It was not hugely expensive, so I'm not angry, but I am sad/disappointed. I thought it was going to be better than online subsector and sector creators, but it appears not. :(

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer

    The main advantages with Cosmographer (and the entire CC3+ product line) is that it provides the tools and symbols to draw your own maps. The traveller importer is just an additional nice-to-have, but not really the main offering. The best part of that is that you get an editable map, if you wish to make custom version of the official maps, instead of just a simple image/pdf export.

    As for a webserver, it is always possible to set up one on one's own computer, but that is a bit of a technical effort of course.


    Do note that you are covered by the 14-day back money guarantee since you purchased it today, so if the product really isn't what you are looking for, you can go for that. I do recommend perhaps playing a bit around first though, since you have it already installed.

  • My Traveller site is an Alternate Universe. I chose the side of the galaxy, 180 degrees out from our location, that not much is known about. I can place planets and solar systems, etc. wherever I want. I did this so I don't have to worry about canon.

  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker

    You should be able to read sector files from the disk without talking to a webserver at all, but you'll need to do a little configuration. You do need to set up a little part of your disk to pretend to be travellermap.com, though.

    To make believe, make a directory on your disk to hold an MSEC and SEC directory. Those directories will hold your sector data files. The URI for places on your hard disk is "file://localpath", so if the MSEC directory is located at "W:\travellermap\MSEC\", you'll use "file://W:/travellermap/MSEC"

    Open @System\Traveller\MySectors.cfg using your favorite text editor (you will need to find where @ is; the default is "C:\ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus) and change the "msec source" and "sec source" entries to the directories that hold the corresponding data files plus the little section to get individual sector files ( file://W:/travellermap/MSEC/#SECTOR# when following the pattern in the previous paragraph ). List any custom sectors under "sector names" (for example "sector names = MySector|TheirSector|Our Sector") with the names corresponding to the files in the MSEC and SEC directories. Save the file with a new name like "CustomSectors.cfg".

    In CC3+, enter the TSECCFGFILE command and then enter the name of the custom sectors file (e.g. @System\Traveller\CustomSectors.cfg"). Your next TSECIMPORT command should then be using the custom sector list on your disk.

    JimProflo1
  • 1 year later
  • In this situation, you may need to input your sector data manually into CC3 and use Cosmographer for additional features like mapping star systems and interstellar routes.

    Regarding the Traveller stuff in Cosmographer being outdated, conventions for Traveller maps can vary, and what is considered "up-to-date" might depend on personal preferences and any changes or updates in the Traveller RPG system. If you find that the tools in Cosmographer don't align perfectly with the latest Traveller conventions, you may need to manually adjust or adapt the maps to your specific needs.

    CC3 is more focused on vector-based mapping, while fractal world generation is typically associated with dedicated world-building software. However, you can create a world map separately using a tool like Fractal Terrains, and then import it into CC3 for further detailing.

  • 1 month later
  • MikaMika Newcomer

    I have the same issue with the importer. I want to import the Spinward Marches sector, but all the colours and many of the symbols for the different types of stations are wrong or missing.

    I am not very proficient with CC3+ and even less with Cosmographer. So, I am not quite sure if I understand all the workarounds mentioned above. Is there a tutorial?

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer

    For the colors, CC3+ uses a config setting to map traveller color names to internal color values. It expects to get regular names of colors, like blue, lightgreen, etc, but I notice now that travellermap also sometimes outputs html color codes instead which CC3+ isn't set up to deal with, and defaults to white in these cases.

    You'll find an example config file at @system\traveller\Example.cfg that you can modify and load up instead of the default settings in the importer. There is a section there for colors.

    As a workaround, you can also just change colors after importing. This is a rather quick operation.

    Which station symbols are problematic? I couldn't spot anything in my import, but I don't play traveller, so I may not see the issue.

  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker

    @Monsen do you have an example of a travellermap sector that is outputting html color codes?

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited January 6

    Spinward marches do:

    # Third Imperium, Domain of Deneb
    #
    label 2021 Third Imperium
    border 1005 1105 1204 1305 1405 1505 1604 1704 1803 1802 1903 2002 2102 2201 2302 2402 2502 2601 2701 2801 2902 3001 3102 3201 3302 3303 3304 3305 3306 3307 3308 3309 3310 3311 3312 3313 3314 3315 3316 3317 3318 3319 3320 3321 3322 3323 3324 3325 3326 3327 3328 3329 3330 3331 3332 3333 3334 3335 3336 3337 3338 3339 3340 3341 3241 3141 3041 2941 2841 2741 2641 2541 2441 2341 2241 2141 2041 1941 1840 1839 1739 1738 1637 1537 1636 1736 1835 1834 1833 1733 1832 1831 1731 1730 1729 1728 1727 1826 1825 1824 1823 1822 1821 1721 1620 1520 1419 1320 1219 1119 1019 1020 1019 1018 1118 1117 1116 1215 1214 1314 1313 1412 1512 1611 1711 1810 1910 1909 1808 1708 1607 1507 1407 1307 1207 1107 1006 1005 #e32736
    border 0930 #e32736
    label 0335 Third Imperium
    border 0133 0232 0332 0432 0533 0632 0732 0733 0633 0534 0535 0635 0636 0737 0738 0638 0539 0438 0339 0238 0139 0138 0137 0136 0135 0134 0133 #e32736
    border 1329 1429 1430 1330 1329 #e32736
    
  • MikaMika Newcomer
    edited January 6

    What does @system stand for? There are no folders names traveller in my CC3+ installation folders. In fact, I cannot locate the installation folder for Cosmographer.

    Also, I am currently trying to change the colours manually, but I am not sure how to convert the RGB colour codes into the CC3+ colour codes. When I search for HTML colour codes, I get only RGB and HEX codes.

    And one thing that is driving me crazy is the selecting stuff on the canvas. I have hidden all layers except the text layer and the backgrounds layer, and I am on the text layer. I want to select text (star system names) to change the colour in the white areas to black, because right now all text is white. But when I draw the selection box around the text that I want to change the background is also selected. This does not seem right.

    JimP
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer

    @ is the standard CC3+ reference to the CC3+ data directory, the default location unless you changed it during installation is c:\ProgramData\ProFantasy\CC3Plus

    System is a folder within the data directory.

    JimP
  • MikaMika Newcomer
    edited January 6

    I found the two fileses Example.cfg and white_background.cfg. I tried using the Example.cfg where I changed the colour code in this line from white (15) to dark red (165):

    before allegiance = GOSHEET TEXT;TSPECF Arial;TSPECH 0.12;TSPECA 0;TSPECJ 1;TSPECS 0;GOLAYER ALLEGIANCE;COLOR 165

    But the areas that belong to the Imperium stay white. Also, the area that makes up the Darrian Confederation (left of the Sword Worlds) should be grey and not blue.

    I don't know how to solve this. I am completely new to Cosmographer.


  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer

    Just changing the number on the top doesn't work unfortunately, as the code that created the import explicitly sets a color for every border, and it uses 15 if it gets (what it considers) an invalid color from travellermap.

    What you need to change are the color values:

    #COLORS
    #======
    color names = red:2|blue:9|olivedrab:12|orange:8|yellow:4|purple:7|green:13|lightgreen:1|lightblue:9|pink:187|brown:11|cyan:5|hotpink:6|lime:118|darkred:165|darkkhaki:130|gray:14|slategray:67|darkslategray:66|white:15|indigo:58
    

    This section is also what makes Darian and Sword Worlds the same color. Travellermap sends color blue for one of them and lightblue for the other, and if you look at the config, those are both set to be color 9.

    You can also get it to use those html colors just by inserting them into the list, like I did here, this should cause the white sections on Spineward Marches to come out as yellow:

    color names = red:2|#e32736:135|blue:9|olivedrab:12|orange:8|yellow:4|purple:7|green:13|lightgreen:1|lightblue:9|pink:187|brown:11|cyan:5|hotpink:6|lime:118|darkred:165|darkkhaki:130|gray:14|slategray:67|darkslategray:66|white:15|indigo:58
    

    The way we handle these colors was written before travellermap started putting those html color codes in there, so I am afraid this is a manual process for now to identify and insert appropriate replacement, the importer would need an update to be able to parse those automatically. Personally, I would probably just do some quick manual color changes on those entities after loading the map. While having everything correct out of the gate is obviously preferable, the main work is in drawing the sectors after all.

    Also note one thing about the import dialog. It caches the setting sin memory when you load the file, so if you make tweaks to the config file with CC3+ open and want to test the new settings, you need to click the change export settings button and browse for the file again, even if the dialog indicates it is already the right file.

    JimP
  • MikaMika Newcomer

    Thanks for the explanation. In your example, is the HEX code the one that will turn yellow?

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer

    Yes. I just looked at the api data to see what travellermap actually sent.

    Mika
  • 1 month later
  • Also, for those that are still interested in non-Imperial (non-canonical) sections of the universe, Joshua at Travellermap is more than willing to take your data and import it into Travellermap. There's several user created sectors in the universe and when the import data is correctly formatted, it's a breeze for him to import. For examples, if you search for Virgo or Sagittarius clusters, you'll see two sectors that I created and had imported. One does need to update the .cfg file in the macro to handle the new names of the sectors (there's another thread around here somewhere where Ralf walked me thru it). Then, importing into CC3+ works wonderfully.

    Flyteach

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