[FT3] Unable to edit altitude after importing from MDR file

DaishoChikara

I'm following the One Day Worldbuilder tutorial from Annual 2019. When I create a map from the MDR file completed in Wilbur, I cannot edit the altitude using either the Raise/Lower or Raise Prescale Offset/Lower Prescale Offset tools. Nothing paints when I try, although the operations are listed in the Undo list.

I have experimented by attempting edits both prior to and after using the Tools > Actions > Burn In To Surface function, to no avail.
I have also tried saving the file to an FTW file and then editing, as well as closing said file + FT3 and then reopening both before attempting to edit, with no result.
I have tried re-opening the MDR file I exported with FT3 but prior to any editing with Wilbur, and get the same result.
I then created a new Synthetic World file, and was able to use all edit functions there.

This leads me to conclude that only when creating a new Binary world using an MDR file that I am unable to edit the altitude.

I've re-read through the tutorial as well as the Tome, the website forums, and the support list in the registered user portion of the website.

Other painting tools, such as Wetter/Drier, Warmer/Colder, and the climate painting tools seem to work just fine.

Is there a way to fix this? Is this a known issue? Is this a bug I should file a report on?



(Edit: Google drive link to the MDR file, just in case: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1JzVEy-eScGQiAfLbi97co9bptO-lm-vm/view?usp=sharing)

Loopysue

You need to burn the data into the surface of the world first. The data doesn't actually exist in FT3 until you do that. FT3 is just showing the data read directly from the MDR file.

The menu item is here:

Tools->Actions->Burn in to surface.

DaishoChikara

Sue,

That was the first setting I worked with, and whether I run that method or not it still doesn't let me edit altitude.

Loopysue

Not with the offset brushes, no. But it should allow you to use the ordinary raise and lower brushes.

Doesn't it work that way?

The burning into the surface isn't a setting. It's an action that fixes the data from the MDR file into the FT3 world.

DaishoChikara

Tried with both the offset and normal raise/lower brushes, neither works. Also, apologies for using incorrect terminology - action, not setting.

I'm a programmer in my real life, so I tried in my post above to cover all the bases I knew to try.

Loopysue

Well, I am stumped. It should work.

This is one I did just now - exactly as I described.

mike robel

Sue, you are looking at your map from underground or something. IT's all backward!

Loopysue

What?!

LOL! Mike, behave yourself!

Daisho - Here is an island added to your map, so its not the MDR.

DaishoChikara

Hmm. I'm guessing maybe it's my copy of FT3 then? I'll try reinstalling, and if that doesn't work, I'll submit a support request. Thanks Sue!

Also, lol @ Mike

Loopysue

If that doesn't work, make sure that you are using the right brushes. It's not the prescale offset brushes this time but the ones to the left of them - the ordinary Raise and Lower brushes. Prescale offset brushes don't work on imported worlds.

DaishoChikara

Sue,

As I mentioned before, I tried both sets of brushes, neither of them worked. Hopefully reinstalling will help.

Loopysue

I know, Daisho.

I blame getting old.

That's me, not the software. I seem to keep repeating myself these days

DaishoChikara

Happens to the best of us, Sue. ;-)

I have found that I am able to edit using the standard Raise/Lower tools, and indeed not the prescale tools. I'm dumbfounded because those were not working when I tested, and they are now. I wonder if it's an 'order of operation' situation, but frankly, I want to just get back to mapping and not spend all day hunting it...

jslayton

http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=3680 offers an explanation of how FT3 normally computes altitudes. A binary world (from a data file) replaces the whole equation with a lookup into the file, which is why editing tools don't work on it. Burn In To Surface converts the binary data into information in the offset channel and sets roughness to 0, which is why prescale editing won't work at first for data from a binary file after the Burn In To Surface operation. Offset editing should work well after Burn In To Surface, however.

If using the offset tools after Burn In To Surface isn't working, the most likely cause is that FT has a small selection somewhere offscreen. Unlike Photoshop, FT won't warn you if you're painting outside of your selection. Use Ctrl+D to remove any selection if painting doesn't seem to be working.

Loopysue

Thanks Joe, but I'm still not getting any result with the Prescale offset brushes after pressing CTRL+D.

jslayton

If your roughness channel is set to 0 (which it will be if you've done Burn In To Surface), then the prescale tools will have no effect.

Loopysue

I tried setting it to something else, but it ruined the map I had imported and burned into the surface. Should I increase the roughness before I do the burning?

DaishoChikara

Thanks Joe! Good info, and definitely helps me understand what's going on.

So from now on, I'll try to complete all my edits using the Prescale tools before going to Wilbur, and then if anything still needs touches afterwards, I'll just use the Offset tools.

That tip on the off-screen selection sounds spot-on, as I've seen other programs do that now that I'm reminded of it. If it happens again I'll try to deselect.

jslayton

Posted By: LoopysueI tried setting it to something else, but it ruined the map I had imported and burned into the surface. Should I increase the roughness before I do the burning?

The burn into surface operation evaluates all of the altitudes for the world into a temporary surface, copies that temporary into the offset channel, and finally sets the roughness channel to 0 everywhere. Changing the roughness channel to something other than 0 at that point will bring up the underlying fractal function, which will appear as noise added to your original input data. That noise is controllable, though, and can be useful if the roughness is kept much smaller than the input data (a 0 in the roughness means that no fractal things come through, 1 means all of the fractal things come through, and greater than 1 means that there's more fractalness than other stuff).

jslayton

Posted By: DaishoChikaraI'll try to complete all my edits using the Prescale tools before going to Wilbur, and then if anything still needs touches afterwards, I'll just use the Offset tools.

That's a sound plan.
Prescale was a late addition to the system and it can be hard to understand why it is there at all at first glance (common humans don't do well in the face of exponential functions, it turns out, and the system already had a perfectly good linear-space editing tool in offset). If I were going to start something like FT today, I'd do a number of things differently, including making prescale things work very differently and much more linearly. The current tool directly exposes the implementation to users, which can be bad (see also the brush details dialog, where the value is in the internal system units rather than the user units exposed on the toolbar).

Loopysue

Thank you, Joe