Greyhawk - CC2 to CC3+ Conversion



  • Posted By: ShessarYou can't change the laws of physics. Water flows down hill. They are right, you know.
    Hmmm ... well ... yes. However, before describing how the laws of physics work, one needs to know what they are. Then one can understand why rivers don't always flow downhill. It's all a question of whether gravity is countered by a greater force. That is why some rivers in oceanic coastal areas flow downhill most of the time but uphill in some places some of the time, when the ocean tide is high. They're even some that flow uphill at high tide over a surprising distance.

    So it goes.
  • There are rivers in Western Australia that do this (I am Australian, BTW)
  • edited November 2015
    Shessar, which rivers in particular bother you? We could no doubt gain useful discussion if we had concrete examples (bearing in mind that this is a very old, hallowed and even sacred fantasy world map). We could come up with real world reasons/examples to explain the 'problem' rivers, and also fantasy solutions (like a hot desert in Mystara where it should not have been, explained by Fire elemental magic.
  • The Roman Empire used hydrodynamics to get water uphill to where they wanted it.
  • Blackadder23Blackadder23 Traveler
    edited November 2015
    Posted By: JimPThe Roman Empire used hydrodynamics to get water uphill to where they wanted it.
    True. And might some of the "rivers" in the Flanaess actually be ancient elvish or Flan irrigation ditches?
  • Of course. Ancient Discoveries...
  • 4 months later
  • Can you, or someone, give a step by step on how you did the water contours? I down loaded the fcw and looked at it. But I can't figure it out. I've also looked for a tutorial on it, but wasn't able to find one. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
  • edited March 2016
    I have different sheets for each contour.

    bottom sea
    5000 feet sea
    2000 feet sea

    So the darkest blue bitmap fill would go on the bottom sheet and shallows would have the lightest bitmap fill.

    The land is then drawn on the land sheet.

    That would be the basics of it. Note that I don't use effects.
  • 6 days later
  • Jim,
    Do you do these from scratch? Or do you use them in conjunction with the default water background?
  • 19 days later
  • lol... You know... I was one that got caught up in the 'great river debate' on both sites. Vintyri, I saw your post there, and LOVED it. A very nice, polite, but straight forward 'in your face' way of telling people to 'shut up and let the mappers make their maps'. One of the things in my original Larysia maps, is that most/all of my rivers connect to each other within each continent.

    My reasoning was very simple an distinct.... the connections, and some of the flows.... were man made. Meaning that as the war torn, god devastated world tried to re-populate and rebuild, they diverted rivers and streams to where they were needed, or did the most good. We do things like that in the real world all the time. If I remember correctly, wasn't the Panama Canal created this way?

    I think I politely thanked them and told them it was something I would 'know' for next time... and I have kept it in mind... but when I do get to remaking my Larysia maps... I intend to leave my 'screwed up' rivers just as they are :)
  • 4 years later
  • Thank You so much, map is amazing. This is my first post here, I am Milos Gulan, from Montenegro Europe. Just got CC3 in Humble Bundle pack, lots of it but I hope I will get the rest eventualy. Just amazing after installation. I hope I will find my way around here, this is my first post on the forum. I should try looking for introduction thread. Thanks again!
  • edited June 2020
    Welcome Milos!

    This links you to the "introduce yourself" topic, in case you're still looking. There are a LOT of posts on the Forum here!
  • The first link leads to my site, where the tempatles are gone. My apologies. I'll look for them and add them back to my site.
  • edited June 2020
    Here is one of my maps, not as good as hers. I'll attach the fcw as well.

    I put her bitmap fills in: C:\Profantasy\CC3Plus\Bitmaps\Tiles\custom on my computer. Those are the 200x200, 500x500 and the 2000x2000 folders.
    qab.png 489.9K
    qa.FCW 103.8K
  • BuzzardBuzzard Newcomer

    Thanks for sharing your CC3+ file of your Greyhawk map! That was incredibly helpful to me in my efforts to customize and re-brew my campaign world. I really appreciate your kindness and your work at updating the older map into this style. I started with your beautiful terrain and then reworked the map in Illustrator for the player's map for my parody of the World of Greyhawk called Urth. I'm really happy with the results.

    Thanks again!!
  • 13 days later
  • I know I am late to this thread. I love this map and am doing exactly the same as Buzzard with a custom Greyhawk. I have done a good bit of mapping with Photoshop and Wonderdraft so I am familiar. I have used the CC2 that came with the old Forgotten Realms Atlas also. If I get into CC3, what other packs would I need to get to utilize this map?
  • Buzzard and RetroGamer, I am doing the same thing with my gaming world right now. I'm using this map (expanded to a full continent) with most places renamed as well as adding a few of the continents from the Community Atlas to create an entire world. Great minds think alike. :)

    As far as what you would need to use this map, it only uses the Base CC3+ software and is made using the Mike Schley style. It uses the Carolingia font that is available for download from
  • BuzzardBuzzard Newcomer
    Shessar, I'd love to see your expanded map some day!

    I've been toying with the idea of creating a version of this map that can be edited via Inkscape so that others can create their customized WoG via Open Source software. Would you be ok with me using the terrain background from your map in that sort of offering?

    Thanks again for sharing your beautiful map. You've been instrumental in the reworking of my game world!
  • Feel free to use it as you wish Buzzard, just remember that Wizards owns the rights to the map design and isn't always happy when others copy it. I always live with the possibility that I may be served with a cease and desist letter (or worse) for this map. I only leave this posted because so many have used it and it is just a derivative work so shouldn't be a problem. Just felt you should be aware before putting too much effort into another platform.

    Good luck and happy mapping!
  • So are all the assets part of the base CC3+ or is there a Mike Schley pack I need to get?
  • Sorry, my answer was a bit confusing. The Mike Schley style is included in the base CC3+ program.
  • edited July 2020
    Thanks. Looks like its time for me to learn CC3+ =) I have been messing with Wonderdraft a bit. This was my Greyhawk map I made last week. It's a recreation of the 1980 Darlene map.
  • <blockquote><cite>Posted By: RetroGamer_Meph</cite>Thanks. Looks like its time for me to learn CC3+ =) I have been messing with Wonderdraft a bit. This was my Greyhawk map I made last week. It's a recreation of the 1980 Darlene map.<a href=""></a></blockquote>
    That's a very nice piece of work there RetroGamer. I love the old-school maps, part of the reason I got into rpgs to be honest.

    I don't mind the CC3+ hex map styles but I don't like the fact that the coastlines are all hex shaped as well. Is there a way to do a normal fractal coastline and use the hex symbols with them being appropriately truncated (if that's the right word) by the coastline? It's probably easier to just do a standard overland style with a hex grid but...
  • We had a user that started recreating Darlene's map in CC3 but lost it in a hard drive crash. That was a great loss.

    Your version RetroGamer is excellent! I hope you don't mind that I've downloaded it. I never owned the original Greyhawk Campaign but one of our other DMs still has it and the map is in pristine condition. My envy level is great. :)
  • Not at all, enjoy it. I made it so I could print it for my wall but I would like something a little more detailed for my custom game but not nearly as detailed as the amazing Anna Meyer maps. Your version will be perfect for my game. I picked up CC3+ but right now I have no clue how to do anything in it. I will watch some vids this weekend and get to work on it.
  • BuzzardBuzzard Newcomer
    RetroGamer, look for the video tutorials by Joe Sweeney. I struggled with CC3+ until I watched Joe's tutorials. After about an hour or so of watching and following along I was able to use the program and get results. I also recommend that you join the Facebook group for CC3+. That's a great place to go if you have questions and there's been regular teaching videos being posted there that have been fabulous and very helpful.

    Best of luck!!
  • edited July 2020
    jmabbott asked:Is there a way to do a normal fractal coastline and use the hex symbols with them being appropriately truncated (if that's the right word) by the coastline? It's probably easier to just do a standard overland style with a hex grid but...
    The simplest way is probably just to use one of the drawing tools that matches the style of the coastal hexes, and draw a suitable coastal polygon wherever it's needed. For the simpler styles, this will likely be just a single-colour polygon, though for others, there may be an appropriate "land" or "landmass" tool for the job. The Mike Schley Hex Mapping style's PDF guide from the 2018 January Cartographer's Annual issue suggests doing just this, for instance, although the sample map with that style doesn't actually use it.

    Anyone interested in more CC3+ mapping of the Greyhawk world may also care to see this topic on mapping Nyr Dyv in a very striking cut-wood style. That just shows the final map, but this topic explains more of how the effect was achieved, and there is this brief WIP topic too which shows the map partway through its production.
  • thehawkthehawk Traveler
    Not necessarily Greyhawk CC2 -> CC3+ conversion, but might be of interest for Greyhawk-in-general and / or ideas for your own Greyhawk-D-I-Y efforts -
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