I think I understand, though I would need to see the FCW file to be certain, but you appear to be drawing the river as a shape rather than as a single line. Most river drawing tools are intended to be used to draw the entire river as a single line from source to mouth, then broken at convenient points to make the parts gradually wider line widths towards the ocean if preferred.
Have you tried drawing the rivers as a single line and then extending the sea into the estuary as far as the estuary is wider than the river?
I'm drawing the river as a zig-zag with width 2, so it's easier to see, and so it's wider than railroads. I may need to use width 4. I'm drawing the sea as a polygon. At the mouth, the river divides into several branches, I'm only showing the northernmost and southernmost major branches; as it meets the sea, there's a pair of notches becaue of the mis-match between width-2 and width-0 objects. I've overlapped sea and estuary elsewhere to avoid the notch.
I'm also having some trouble with small islands and lakes, especially in the Sivash; they're too small for the snap grid, and not worth the trouble of a more detailed grid.
Once I finish tracing the coast (as a set of polygons), rivers (zig-zags), railroads (more zig-zags), etc., placing the cities, etc. I'd like to see which styles will work with them.
I'm guessing really wildly now because I don't know what's happening in the drawing, but I think you might need to edit the estuaries so that the coastline meets each river in turn.
P.S. I originally planned to use the 1930s Overland style, hence the title, but couldn't figure out how to draw anything in that style. If I can covert a copy of what I've drawn, I'd like to try that.
I'm sorry Marja, but I've failed to understand what the problem is with your map. However, there is another problem you aren't aware of, in that everything you've drawn so far has been drawn on the same sheet. That means if you want to apply different sheet effects to (for example) the rivers in the future, you will first have to move the rivers to the RIVERS sheet to be able to do that without affecting the rest of the map.
However, if you intend to make changes anyway and haven't got too far it is simple enough to move groups of things like rivers to a different sheet when you are ready.
There is an old live mapping session where Ralf covers making a new map in the 1930 overland style here, if you are interested. The forum thread referred to in the live stream is this one.
If I've interpreted correctly what you're saying in conjunction with your FCW map, you're drawing the rivers using lines, but in places, these need to expand into both an estuary or a delta before reaching the sea.
Where lines (rivers) meet polygons (sea, estuary) as you've described, yes you do need to draw the river lines with care, and extend them into the polygon areas to disguise the join. This is normal practice.
While I can see you're trying to draw the rivers and coastlines as accurately as possible for the scale of the map, I'm unsure if this will work well for the game it's intended for. Generally for hex-map boardgames, features such as rivers either run along the edges of hexes (because they form a game-specific terrain barrier) or through the middle of hexes (if they don't). However, your map shows yours do both in places, which suggests the rivers are really more scenic features of the map than important terrain elements with a game-specific purpose. If correct, that makes me think you probably don't need to worry so much over needing high accuracy, and including every tiny (for the map scale) island or river bend, for example.
As Sue noted, you need to change the sheet the rivers (actually all the water features) are on right now, because this will create problems further down the line, most especially because they're on one of the bitmap sheets currently, and that's one you'll need to hide or remove to show just the final map version of what you've drawn.
Hope you manage to resolve the problems you're having drawing using the 1930s Overland style.
While I can see you're trying to draw the rivers and coastlines as accurately as possible for the scale of the map, I'm unsure if this will work well for the game it's intended for. Generally for hex-map boardgames, features such as rivers either run along the edges of hexes (because they form a game-specific terrain barrier) or through the middle of hexes (if they don't). However, your map shows yours do both in places, which suggests the rivers are really more scenic features of the map than important terrain elements with a game-specific purpose. If correct, that makes me think you probably don't need to worry so much over needing high accuracy, and including every tiny (for the map scale) island or river bend, for example.
I'm using the smaller hexes as a snap grid. I'm trying to make sure rivers and rail lives will pass through the larger hexes, not along the sides, but the fine-tuning can wait.
However, there is another problem you aren't aware of, in that everything you've drawn so far has been drawn on the same sheet.
I'd carefully made sure they weren't in the same layer, and checked by showing and hiding different layers, so how come you both say they're in the same layer? I've put both rivers and sea in coasts, because there isn't a separate layer for rivers. Also cities/towns in structures. I've started railroads in railroads; the source maps are frustratingly contradictory about these.
Thanks for the Youtube link, but I have sensory issues and can't follow video demos.
The problem isn't the Layers, it's the Sheets. You need to move all the water features off the BITMAP-1919 Sheet onto the RIVERS one. Remember, Sheets and Layers are the opposite to what many graphics-manipulation programs call them in CC3+. Sheets in CC3+ are, in general, much more important to get right than Layers, although Layers are important for grouping different Sheets at times too.
Okay, thanks. I think I've moved everything to the appropriate sheets.
I'm having some trouble seeing where I've drawn railroads, and distinguishing them from the ones on the clearest of my source maps. I'd like to temporarily fade that source map without blurring it, so it's easier to tell which are which. I tried the transparency efffect, and various settings for adjust hue/saturation, but none of them did anything. Any suggestions?
First, use the List option in the Info menu and pick the bitmap then hit D for do it - to make absolultely sure the bitmap really is on the sheet you think it's on. Then make sure that the Transparency effect is on that same sheet, and also make sure that the sheet effects are turned on (the little checkbox at the top of the Sheets and Effects dialog. Once you've done all those things the Transparency effect should work when you hit either Apply or OK.
I tried hiding and showing that sheet, then list w/ inverted colors. It's on the right sheet. I tried transparency, and checked sheet effects. I checked that the layer isn't fixed, and tried again. It doesn't work.
Ok, I can't see your image when I open your map. I just get a default red X image used to indicate a missing file (the one that only you have on your PC), so this may not work for you. I found that if you use the DELAYDRAWSYM command and change it from 1 to 0 (zero), the transparency will work for the rest of that session.
Comments
I think I understand, though I would need to see the FCW file to be certain, but you appear to be drawing the river as a shape rather than as a single line. Most river drawing tools are intended to be used to draw the entire river as a single line from source to mouth, then broken at convenient points to make the parts gradually wider line widths towards the ocean if preferred.
Have you tried drawing the rivers as a single line and then extending the sea into the estuary as far as the estuary is wider than the river?
I'm drawing the river as a zig-zag with width 2, so it's easier to see, and so it's wider than railroads. I may need to use width 4. I'm drawing the sea as a polygon. At the mouth, the river divides into several branches, I'm only showing the northernmost and southernmost major branches; as it meets the sea, there's a pair of notches becaue of the mis-match between width-2 and width-0 objects. I've overlapped sea and estuary elsewhere to avoid the notch.
I'm also having some trouble with small islands and lakes, especially in the Sivash; they're too small for the snap grid, and not worth the trouble of a more detailed grid.
Once I finish tracing the coast (as a set of polygons), rivers (zig-zags), railroads (more zig-zags), etc., placing the cities, etc. I'd like to see which styles will work with them.
Then I'm not sure where the white is coming from.
Please can you upload the .FCW file (the drawing file) to a comment below, so that we can inspect the problem?
It should upload if you hit the paperclip button at the bottom of the comment box.
The white comes from the background.
I'm guessing really wildly now because I don't know what's happening in the drawing, but I think you might need to edit the estuaries so that the coastline meets each river in turn.
Here's the current working version. It's about half the area of the original game map, and at an angle to it.
P.S. I originally planned to use the 1930s Overland style, hence the title, but couldn't figure out how to draw anything in that style. If I can covert a copy of what I've drawn, I'd like to try that.
Thanks for sharing the FCW.
I'm sorry Marja, but I've failed to understand what the problem is with your map. However, there is another problem you aren't aware of, in that everything you've drawn so far has been drawn on the same sheet. That means if you want to apply different sheet effects to (for example) the rivers in the future, you will first have to move the rivers to the RIVERS sheet to be able to do that without affecting the rest of the map.
However, if you intend to make changes anyway and haven't got too far it is simple enough to move groups of things like rivers to a different sheet when you are ready.
There is an old live mapping session where Ralf covers making a new map in the 1930 overland style here, if you are interested. The forum thread referred to in the live stream is this one.
If I've interpreted correctly what you're saying in conjunction with your FCW map, you're drawing the rivers using lines, but in places, these need to expand into both an estuary or a delta before reaching the sea.
Where lines (rivers) meet polygons (sea, estuary) as you've described, yes you do need to draw the river lines with care, and extend them into the polygon areas to disguise the join. This is normal practice.
While I can see you're trying to draw the rivers and coastlines as accurately as possible for the scale of the map, I'm unsure if this will work well for the game it's intended for. Generally for hex-map boardgames, features such as rivers either run along the edges of hexes (because they form a game-specific terrain barrier) or through the middle of hexes (if they don't). However, your map shows yours do both in places, which suggests the rivers are really more scenic features of the map than important terrain elements with a game-specific purpose. If correct, that makes me think you probably don't need to worry so much over needing high accuracy, and including every tiny (for the map scale) island or river bend, for example.
As Sue noted, you need to change the sheet the rivers (actually all the water features) are on right now, because this will create problems further down the line, most especially because they're on one of the bitmap sheets currently, and that's one you'll need to hide or remove to show just the final map version of what you've drawn.
Hope you manage to resolve the problems you're having drawing using the 1930s Overland style.
While I can see you're trying to draw the rivers and coastlines as accurately as possible for the scale of the map, I'm unsure if this will work well for the game it's intended for. Generally for hex-map boardgames, features such as rivers either run along the edges of hexes (because they form a game-specific terrain barrier) or through the middle of hexes (if they don't). However, your map shows yours do both in places, which suggests the rivers are really more scenic features of the map than important terrain elements with a game-specific purpose. If correct, that makes me think you probably don't need to worry so much over needing high accuracy, and including every tiny (for the map scale) island or river bend, for example.
I'm using the smaller hexes as a snap grid. I'm trying to make sure rivers and rail lives will pass through the larger hexes, not along the sides, but the fine-tuning can wait.
However, there is another problem you aren't aware of, in that everything you've drawn so far has been drawn on the same sheet.
I'd carefully made sure they weren't in the same layer, and checked by showing and hiding different layers, so how come you both say they're in the same layer? I've put both rivers and sea in coasts, because there isn't a separate layer for rivers. Also cities/towns in structures. I've started railroads in railroads; the source maps are frustratingly contradictory about these.
Thanks for the Youtube link, but I have sensory issues and can't follow video demos.
The problem isn't the Layers, it's the Sheets. You need to move all the water features off the BITMAP-1919 Sheet onto the RIVERS one. Remember, Sheets and Layers are the opposite to what many graphics-manipulation programs call them in CC3+. Sheets in CC3+ are, in general, much more important to get right than Layers, although Layers are important for grouping different Sheets at times too.
Yes, it's the sheets that hold the effects too, like glows and blurs, and so on. They are way more important than layers.
Okay, thanks. I think I've moved everything to the appropriate sheets.
I'm having some trouble seeing where I've drawn railroads, and distinguishing them from the ones on the clearest of my source maps. I'd like to temporarily fade that source map without blurring it, so it's easier to tell which are which. I tried the transparency efffect, and various settings for adjust hue/saturation, but none of them did anything. Any suggestions?
First, use the List option in the Info menu and pick the bitmap then hit D for do it - to make absolultely sure the bitmap really is on the sheet you think it's on. Then make sure that the Transparency effect is on that same sheet, and also make sure that the sheet effects are turned on (the little checkbox at the top of the Sheets and Effects dialog. Once you've done all those things the Transparency effect should work when you hit either Apply or OK.
I tried hiding and showing that sheet, then list w/ inverted colors. It's on the right sheet. I tried transparency, and checked sheet effects. I checked that the layer isn't fixed, and tried again. It doesn't work.
P.S. I have to use Numeric Edit to turn on alpha transparency for the image. https://forum.profantasy.com/discussion/comment/115341#Comment_115341
Ok, I can't see your image when I open your map. I just get a default red X image used to indicate a missing file (the one that only you have on your PC), so this may not work for you. I found that if you use the DELAYDRAWSYM command and change it from 1 to 0 (zero), the transparency will work for the rest of that session.