Live Mapping: Height Transitions in Dungeons and Caverns

Loopysue

Hi everyone! :)

This week, Ralf will be answering another topic request by taking a look at creating visual height differences in dungeon and cavern maps.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wLgKmy3ooPY

All sessions are recorded (minus the chat), so if you miss the session you won't necessarily see what the questions were, but you can still see the video at a later date - either on Youtube or right here.

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Loopysue

30 minutes! :D

amerigoV

So I started watching this and was happy to see he did the color knockout approach (which I did a post on awhile back). I think on some list I also suggested more on how to show variation in height. Guess I need to flag this one :)

Royal Scribe

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amerigoVSep 14, 2024

So I started watching this and was happy to see he did the color knockout approach (which I did a post on awhile back). I think on some list I also suggested more on how to show variation in height. Guess I need to flag this one :)

I used that knockout effect for the underground portion of the dwarven village and mines that I am working on. I love how easy that approach makes it to expand or revise your map if you do little patches at a time

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[WIP] Atlas Contest - Vildural Village & Mines

Royal ScribeSep 11, 2024

Having done (in varying stages of "in progress" and not all submitted yet) an elven farming village, forest village, and underwater village, as well as a desert town, what other unusual village environment could I tackle. How about...underground?

I decided to build out my dwarven kingdom in order to find a home for a dwarven mining village. It ended up being more above-ground than below. I did it in the Mike Schley style because it's compatible with Monsen's Mines.

The village is more fortified like a town, but I figured that was more to protect the mine, but it's still a small village.

https://forum.profantasy.com/uploads/980/ONRHSMVL1W03.jpg

Villages don't usually have many specialized shops, so I didn't label any of the potential-retail buildings around the town square. There's a little bit of agriculture, and a few villagers have gardens, but most of the village's food is bought or traded with the wealth generated from the mines. Pretty much every family in the village has at least one family member who works in the mines, and anyone else who doesn't has some job that supports mine workers. The Miners' Guild is more like a union rather than a what we might think of as a guild, as it represents the workers rather than the mine's owners.

But no blacksmith in the village. That can be found in a (well-ventilated) space within the mines.

If we hide the "Roof" layer (that is, the top of the mountainside), we can peek into portions of the mine operations. (I still need to finish furnishing this area.) There's a temple used by the entire village, and a blacksmith. Miners can eat in the Miners' Mess Hall during the day, fed by those who work in the kitchens. There's a set of offices for the Mining Administration, where the mine's accounting and payroll are managed. One room has several locked cages to provide extra security for the mine's ore and treasury. In a pinch, it can also serve as the village jail. (One wonders if the mine administrators will come to regret putting the lockup in the treasury.) There's a washroom where miners can get cleaned up before going home, but it's mostly used by the dwarves who live underground.

The furnaces in the blacksmith's and next-door washroom also heats water. The dwarves have created a cunning pipe system throughout this level of the mines that brings both hot and cold water to the residential suites and the kitchen.

There are six luxury residential apartments underground. Most of the underground residents use the common washroom, but the Mine Administrator's family has their own private bathroom with bathtub.

https://forum.profantasy.com/uploads/798/H4PMEWLC9CC5.jpg

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I also used that approach for the interior of my ziggurat temple — and even more cutouts for floors below (for the pit trap, higher up on multistory rooms, etc.). It’s a great approach.

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[WIP] Inside the Temple of Fah

Royal ScribeJul 13, 2024

A few months ago, I posted the Temple of Fah, a ziggurat I created to play with the CA209 Stairs and Steps annual. At long last, I have finally designed the interior.

I know this map is ridiculous. Egyptian pyramids only had a handful of rooms for the tombs of a pharaoh and their treasure. Sumerian ziggurats also only had a handful of interior chambers. But I decided to go whole hog and create a sprawling interior complex reminiscent of the classic dungeon crawls I first experienced with D&D in the early 80s. (My first introduction to the game was December of 1979.)

Here’s a side view of the exterior to give you a sense of the entrances:

https://forum.profantasy.com/uploads/986/EBLL47LAJQ90.jpg

There are two landings before reaching the very top of the ziggurat. The first is on level 7, standing on the roof of level 6, and the second is on level 13, on the roof of level 12. The entrances on each landing are to the left and right of the exterior stairs continuing up. The 10 feet wide doors are designed to be concealed for aesthetic purposes, blending in with the side of the ziggurat when shut, but they aren’t exactly hidden or secret.

The landings divide the ziggurat into three sections. The top-most section is primarily used by priests and religious leaders. The middle section has chapels and shrines that the royal family, wealthy nobles, and elite government workers are invited to for private religious celebrations, including weddings and coronations. The general public is never invited inside. Instead, religious leaders stand on the first landing of the temple to lead the masses gathered before the temple in their religious ceremonies. The lowest section contains the tombs of great pharaohs and powerful religious leaders.

I decided to design the interior rooms and passageways using the color key knockout effect that @amerigoV describes in this thread. The walls are granite from the CA149 Beaumaris Castle annual. Most of the other fills and symbols come from the CA150 Ancient Tombs annual.

Here’s an example of a level with the effects turned off:

https://forum.profantasy.com/uploads/313/5LQD32L0B3RM.jpg

Each level of the ziggurat is 10 feet above the level below. The rooms and passageways inside are mostly 8 feet high, leaving two feet of stone for the ceiling (or the floor for the level above).

Let’s go inside!

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Loopysue

Creepy Crypts also uses the same method, only the knockout is placed on 2 sheets with different sheet effects and different fills, so you get a rocky or cobbly wall lining the cavity you knock out. It was probably a little bit too confusing for an annual style for new mappers, but the basic concept of eating holes in the dirt and rock will hopefully become more mainstream as it frees us all from cave entrance issues and having to make floor masks.

seycyrus

So, what's the timeline on the addons that Ralf mentioned near the end of the video? Yesterday? :)

Ralf

Here is the little DD3 update I promised with the additional sheets, effects and drawing tools to do cut-out caves and corridors, as well as height transitions. Unzip over your CC3+ programdata folder and overwrite the existing files. I'll also update the main DD3 installer to include these.

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DD3 Update.zip

387.36 KB

jmabbott

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LoopysueSep 14, 2024

Creepy Crypts also uses the same method, only the knockout is placed on 2 sheets with different sheet effects and different fills, so you get a rocky or cobbly wall lining the cavity you knock out. It was probably a little bit too confusing for an annual style for new mappers, but the basic concept of eating holes in the dirt and rock will hopefully become more mainstream as it frees us all from cave entrance issues and having to make floor masks.

I use the Colour Key effect all the time on my dungeon maps. For commission work (which I've been very slack with recently, sorry Dave, I will get them done!) my basic methodology is:

Insert sketch, Draw walls, Wall Mask complete drawing (add COLOUR KEY effect to sheet), place WALLS sheet below the WALLS MASK sheet so the walls are on top, trace non-secret rooms, change layer for secret rooms (GM Only ususally) and then trace them. Move sheets so Mask is back on top of walls. Quick and easy depending on complexity of the map. Then it's the more time consuming part of stocking the Dungeon...

seycyrus

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RalfSep 17, 2024

Here is the little DD3 update I promised with the additional sheets, effects and drawing tools to do cut-out caves and corridors, as well as height transitions. Unzip over your CC3+ programdata folder and overwrite the existing files. I'll also update the main DD3 installer to include these.

https://forum.profantasy.com/uploads/411/3R71G219TXVO.zip

Thanks a lot!

So, I install to the location noted and start a new dungeon map in the DD3 style and should see the new sheets etc. ?

Loopysue

That is correct :)

seycyrus

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LoopysueSep 20, 2024

That is correct :)

Yeah, that's what I thought. No dice over here.

I can wait for the new installer, perhaps.

Loopysue

You can if you want, but unzipping that zip file in the location Ralf gave is a quicker way of doing the same thing.

seycyrus

I've done it, and there is a message saying that files were replaced, but no go.

Loopysue

I expect that will be the updated drawing tools at the very least.

Let us know if there are any issues.

seycyrus

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LoopysueSep 20, 2024

I expect that will be the updated drawing tools at the very least.

Let us know if there are any issues.

Sorry for being so vague earlier, but I was mobile.

I do not have the cave cut out in my drawing tools, nor do I have any of the sheets discussed in the video. I can create these things myself following the wonderful (as always) video.

But, perhaps I misunderstand what the intent is/was. 1) I unzip the file in the location specified, open up CC3+, new map, Dungeons, DD3 Dungeon ... and the new map should have the sheets and drawing tools already populated in a manner that is sorta close to what is shown in the video?

Has anyone else had anyluck?

EDIT: I've got Cave, Cut-out.dto, and 3 other files in C:\ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus\System\Drawtools

Monsen

EDIT: I've got Cave, Cut-out.dto, and 3 other files in C:\ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus\System\Drawtools

Seems like there is an error in the zip. I haven't installed this myself, but those .dto files certainly shouldn't have ended up in the root of the drawtools folder, they should be inside the appropriate style folder.

@Ralf can probably put out an updated version

Ralf

Ah, indeed. Here is the fixed version.

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DD3 Update.zip

387.67 KB

Quenten

Do we have to remove the previous update?

Ralf

No need. You can delete the extra drawingtools in the wrong folder (root of Drawtools) if you want, but they won't break anything if left there.