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    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: TonnichiwaThese look really good Sue!

    Wow, if I were you I would be replacing those trees as soon as possible on Merelan City and re-contacting whoever it was that wanted to buy it from you and sell them a copy! But maybe that's because I'm unemployed :P

    Personally, I've been wanting to get the entire FCW to Merelan City since you made it so I can see EXACTLY how you made those beautiful oceans/seas/sands/rocks near the beach, etc. I still haven't been able to get it to work right, even though you've helped me a little on it. I just found the beaches and the water and the sands on that map so fantastic that I've been wanting to make maps that have the same kind of look myself.

    Thank you! :)

    To be honest, Tony, I really think the lady will have taken an illegal copy of it by now, even though the highest available resolution online is only 2500 pi square (I think). The one I can't actually afford to print for myself is 5000 pi square.

    I thought I uploaded an actual segment of Merelan City FCW somewhere about the site? If not then maybe I should do a tutorial at some point. I really must finish this style first, though. I have too many half finished projects lying around as it is. I don't want to add an entire style to that pile or I'll never go back to any of it.

    I did more or less the same job on Scribble rock, just slightly different colour variation of it. I'm certain I uploaded a sample of that one?

    The problem with most of my FCWs is that I use a lot of my own textures - even as early on as Merelan city, the seaweed and rock were my own textures. In fact, because you don't have Bogie's Mapping Objects you won't have the sand either. And I think the grit was BMO as well. Which means that you would only have been able to see the water layers. The exact shade and tone of the sand is more important than you think in that effect. It has to be very pale and exactly the right shade of warm yellow-grey for the water to look right ;)

    Posted By: QuentenWow. The arid almost is like Aussie pasture!

    Thanks, Quenten :) Is almost good enough?

    The way I envisage using any of these textures is mixed together with each other and various edge fade effects in operation (which is why they are going to have to be tested quite rigorously for transparency acne before I call them all finished). For example, I would probably have dozens of ragged patches of the dead grass breaking up the edge of the desert sand as a sort of do-it-yourself scrubland. Dot a few dead bushes around and its done. I think doing stuff like that by hand is more natural looking than creating a scrubland texture with ready made bushes, because you can dot the bushes along the wadis, and dot little rock symbols on the plateaus. (Not that I'm criticising my favourite HW style ;) )
  1.  
    Actually, I downloaded Bogies Mapping Objects right after you told me you still use them ;) I've checked all of the Merelan City threads hoping you had downloaded the file somewhere, though I still have to check the thread on the Cartographer's Guild.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 6th 2018 edited
     
    I don't think I have ever uploaded an FCW to the Guild. I don't think its possible anyway.

    BMO is covered by a similar EULA. Its just a separate document from the CSUAC one, and therefore wasn't involved in that little mess where I ended up deleting the CSUAC ;)

    You still don't have the seaweed or the rocks. Those are ones I made. I uploaded them here, but you aren't likely to have stored them in the same folder in the same place as I've got them, even if you downloaded them.

    Don't worry - I'll have a root around in the archives today and *sea* what I can find :P

    I hardly ever use the tiles in BMO, but before I started making my own grass textures I used two of the three grass fills almost exclusively practically everywhere, only cussing the fact that they only come in HI resolution, and not VH, like the PF fills.

    The most frequently used symbols I use from that set are the canoes and rowing boats. The flat stone bridge is an absolute favourite. You can never have enough of that little stone bridge and its ruined brother ;)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018 edited
     
    This is a colour check only.

    I've been working on these textures as a set all day to try and bring them into line with each other as far as colour is concerned.

    I would love to know what you think. Are any of them a bit bright/dull? Do you think one or two of them just don't go with the set? Are any of them so garishly horrible that you really dare not say what you really think? :P
      Colour check.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    i LOVE these, Sue! Only suggestion i would make is to add an additional desert with a little less "yellow" in it? Closer to the mountain background? But that's just my own personal tastes. I'd love to use them, but currently everything i am working on is a commission both of which I am providing the .fcw so including these fills wouldn't be feasible.....but once i get back to my own campaign...i'm anxious to incorporate them when complete! Are you going to sell them as a set with the symbols? Maybe another PF Annual???
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018 edited
     
    Aw, thank you, Lorelei :)

    That's great, since I know how sensitive you are to colour and its use ;)

    Hmmm.... grey sand?

    Ok, but I'll make it a separate texture to the existing one. I could also do a more reddish/pinkish version. Sand comes in all shades in a desert, depending on what minerals are being leached or cooked to oxide. Iron (rust) is what makes some parts of the Sahara red...

    And this is where I blush quite hotly, since I admit to asking Ralf for the list of fills and symbols that are required to make up an annual edition. It all remains to be seen if they fit the bill when I'm done - Ralf's decision, as you know.

    If they aren't quite right for an annual, I could always take Remy up on his offer of hosting it all, so that people can download them and add to their collection?

    I can't wait to see what you've done for your Annual :D

    EDIT: I've got a very long way to go yet. I might have a go at the swamp, tundra, marsh, volcanic fills next, but after that I've still got to do all the symbols... and then the fills that involve using the symbols or matching the fills harmoniously to the individual symbol style - the individual trees and the forest fills and so on. I'm still intending to do four seasons for the temperate region maps ;)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    I typed, tried to get a cloer look and the textures by right clicking and my text is gone. Lets see if I can remember it.

    Some look a bit 'flat' to me. I can see texture, bumps; in desert, grass dead, mountain background, and the middle one on the bottom row. There are no names there.

    I'm kinda certain I said something else, but its gone fomr my mind.

    I think an autosave for typed text, so if someone, particularly me, who needs to recover text, can do so. May not be available though. What I have seen on other forums is it only keeps the text for less than 5 minutes.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    I think I see what you mean, though these are 2000 pi square in 'real life'. Possibly the land textures could do with a bit more... umph?

    I think I really need to make a sort of 'master map' of the set as I go, so that I can see what's lacking on an actual map, instead of trying to get things to work in blocks of little squares :P

    Ok. I'll add a few more and then work on a map with them all together :)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Generally, they all look great to me, although I'll have to echo Jim's mention of "flatness" on some of them. Just a bit more texture, I think. The colors, themselves, are very nice. Also glad to hear of possible additional hues for some like the desert. Sands DO come in various colors from black to red to "sandy" (not that I'd expect a dozen, but two or three options would be very nice, as you've done with the water and grass). Truly impressive.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Thanks :)

    I think I will try to keep the sheer number of textures down to a reasonable maximum, since its always possible to adjust the hue quite a lot with an HSL sheet effect, but yes, I will do at least one more sand variation.

    The flatness you see in the tiny squares above may in some relatively large part be down to the extreme reduction in size. They do look a lot flatter in that image than they really are at full size ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    I would make the arid grass a little more arid, personally. But I guess we are used to various shades of brown and olive in Australia, so may not apply to Europe of course.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    You mean add more space between the tussocks, or change the colour?

    The dead grass is maybe a better colour - or perhaps somewhere between the two?
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Both more space between tussocks, and a bit more between dead and arid - could have a sparse grass fill. (we had a history teacher who was totally bald at age 30, and in typically sensitive teenage boy manner, we called him Sparse Grass! :D )
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    LOL!

    Well that's better than 4-eyes, which is what I used to get as the youngest spectacle wearer in school - aged 6

    Ill see what I can do, but I'm making no promises yet.

    In the meantime. I'm having a day off being sensible. This is a reject texture I've been playing with for the last hour. Its not meant to be anything at all. I just thought it was pretty - something a bit more interesting than a comment without any wallpaper :)
      New 3.jpg
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Oh! I like this one. If you added some striations in red and lighter tones you could use it for a badland texture...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Ummmm..... *scratches head thoughtfully* striations?

    Cells around the blobs? Scratch like grooves that ignore the base pattern?

    (You're going to have to help me here!)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Well, like colored hollow circles, I suppose. Maybe like some agates you see? If you've seen pictures of the US badlands the hills and mountains have these lovely layers of red and brown and tan. It's quite pretty. So if you could somehow add colors to the pattern it would have a similar look from an aerial view.
      IMG_4410.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    Oooooooooh.

    Thank you :)

    I hadn't been looking at it that way before, but I can see what you mean.

    The way its created is going to make it a bit difficult to do, but I may just hand paint the basic export in Krita to get the desired effect.

    Odd that I accidentally struck on a suitable pattern, and a suitable brownish white base!
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    I agree with Scott - definitely badlands. A bit lighter, and it could also do for clay dirt desert (plenty of those here).
    And i was called 4-eyes too, for exactly the same reason. I was 7 at the time.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2018
     
    I'll see what I can do :)

    For now, however, it really is high time I got to bed!
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018
     
    Another possibility with that one, Sue, is to lighten it to a sandy color but keep the circular patterns a little darker for a desert fill with mesas. Would also require a lot of work by hand...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018 edited
     
    I'm getting the picture :)

    This is a larger scale version with sort of the right colours for Badlands

    Badlands_SD.jpg

    But I can see something that you can't...

    The trouble with doing highly detailed fills of this type is that the redundancy is absolutely terrible. The repeat pattern is just horrendous if you tile this more than about 3 side by side at full scale.

    What if (now that I've got the general idea, thanks to you and Quenten) I make a small set of badland hills in this sort of style that will be shaded hills - like the mountains? You could then put them wherever you liked on one of the rather sick looking grass fills. (I noticed from that photograph that there are slightly wider valleys in places, and that they have a kind of sick yellow grey grass in them)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018 edited
     
    Interesting. I was called 4-eyes to in elementary school and later on.

    Don't know this could be done, but clay soil cracks when the rains don't show up. Its like pieces of the surface brak apart, and the edges lift away from the soil below.

    The badlands one you posted could work for this.

    Here is one of many exampls I found by searching for 'dry cracked soil'. This is about 20% of a 2700 pixel photo.
      131-photo-expansive-clay-soil-usdab.jpg
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018
     
    Yes, Sue, I agree with you about the problem of overly-detailed fills and how bad they look when used in large areas where the pattern repeats. Such areas really are better done with symbols than fills, although HW has a badlands fill, but his style works. Same goes for things like sand dunes and anything else that repeats patterns on large scales. Or instead of symbols, maybe a hill pattern like in the HW set but with the badlands coloring? That might work. Or you can just forget it altogether. Not sure how much call there is for badlands fills. I just saw that one and liked it and thought of that right away...!

    BTW, that one is really pretty! Got the colors down for sure.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018 edited
     
    @Jim - cracked soil is more of a battle map scale than a regional map scale, but since you asked I knocked this one up for you :) (I had to upload it as a jpg. Let me know if you want it, but can't convert it, and I will upload it over at the Guild as a png - same size, and give you a link to it.

    Cracked mud_SD.jpg

    @Scott - I don't think I will do badland and hills fills. I think they are much better expressed as symbols.

    But don't worry, now I've taken the trouble to get a nice colour for them I kind of quite like the "Badland hill" symbol collection idea - a little something that will be different to all the other styles ;)
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018
     
    I like that cracked soil. I have several I've done and as Sue says, they are more for battle maps and small areas like dungeons or maybe towns than larger regional areas.

    I love the idea of a small set of badlands hills, Sue, and having something totally unique from any other symbol set is a big plus. Every set has mountains, and many have mesas, but none have offered badlands hills (or tepuis mountains, which I am playing around with right now)... It's nice to have available different and "non-standard" stuff.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 8th 2018
     
    I think a top down shaded version of them would work really nicely ;)

    That will be on the Shaded Mountains thread eventually but for now I'm just plodding on with the textures, since I think its important to finish them first. They kind of set the colour scheme for everything else. Have you ever noticed how closely related all the colours are in the HW style, for example. Its actually a very restricted colour scheme, which I always totally mess up by using a whole raft of HSL sheet effects to make it my own colour! :P
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    I really like the very somber color pallet of the HW style. When I first got CC3+ and was exploring the different style sets something kept drawing me back to that one. Now it's my favorite, default style.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
     
    So do I :)

    That's the really tricky bit - getting the right pattern, the right contrast, the right colour, and the right scale. And then you have to make sure that even if you put the two most unlikely textures right next to each other they will still look ok.

    Its easy to go too far into the safe zone. That's why when they are postage stamp sized some of the textures look a bit bland. I dare say I will go through at least 20 revisions of each texture, possibly more, before I get the whole set right. It makes you realise just how much work went into creating all the existing styles!

    Bearing all of that in mind, here are a few I've been working on tonight.

    Desert white_SD

    Desert white_SD.jpg

    Desert red_SD

    Desert red_SD.jpg

    Land red_SD

    Land red_SD.jpg

    Land green_SD

    Land green_SD.jpg

    Land volcanic_SD

    Land volcanic_SD.jpg

    Snow_SD

    Snow_SD.jpg

    Another screen shot of them all together (I'm going to have to start that map I've been talking about to do a 'field test' soon)

    Colour check2.jpg
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    What a busy beaver you have been. And your work is glorious, as always.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Thank you, Quenten :)

    I hope I'm heading in the right direction with the grass ;)

    I don't think there's a single texture I haven't opened and tweaked tonight/last night (its dawn). I've reduced the intensity of the water textures and tried to increase the patterns on the land textures.

    Its like trimming the legs off a table without anything to measure them with - a bit off here.... a bit off there... oh, and look, I need to cut a bit more off the first one again!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
     
    Forgot one!

    Ice_SD

    Ice_SD.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Question: Do you think I'm drifting dangerously close to the colour scheme of the HW style?

    'Dangerously' for two reasons - firstly I don't want to mimic or copy someone else's work, and its not really much use to just vaguely reproduce an existing style. I've tried to keep a lot more red in my fills, since that's the colour I always seem to feel like adding to some of the HW styles, but at the same time I'm also reducing that red a lot with each new revision. Its a very difficult colour to get right. Our eyes and brains have evolved to recognise red as being either dangerous like a poisonous creature, or, (conversely) good to eat like ripe strawberries, so its the first thing we notice - how red and what kind of red something is or is not. Green, on the other hand... we are remarkable insensitive to changes in shades of green. It is unlikely that anyone noticed the relatively severe 'blue shift' in the Sea green fill :P
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Oh, I really like the new additions.

    Too close to the HW color pallet? Well, to me I always get a sense of grey from the HW set, whereas I comprehend more yellow in what you are going, which might have to do with your tinkering with red? I'm not an artist so don't fully understand the interconnections of the color wheel... But red is my favorite color, and I, too, always seem to end up with a lot of red tones in my work (reds, oranges, purples).
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Thanks :)

    Shades to the warm side (olive, yellow, orange, red) were what I was aiming for, without going anywhere close to 'garish'. Of course, there's nothing stopping anyone from changing the colour with a handy HSL sheet effect if my preferences aren't quite the same as theirs ;)

    I'm not happy with that 'Ice' fill. Still working on it!

    Have a pretty good approximation to pack ice atm. Maybe there needs to be a separate glacier ice, and pack ice?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: LoopysueMaybe there needs to be a separate glacier ice, and pack ice?
    All I can say to that is, that the more different fill styles, the more options for the mapper. Lots of different fills are never bad. (Except possibly for the artist making them all)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Well, unless there's a limit to the number of fills a style can have, I've got hundreds of the things! Mostly they're rejected attempts at the ones I've already uploaded, but some are ok.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    That will work for me.

    I have seen, in an aircraft report on a drought in Texas in the early 1950s, cracked soil going on for square miles. But not many cracks couldn't be seen at 1,200 feet, the height the aircraft was flying.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    That's what I was talking about when I said the cracked mud was more of a battle map texture.

    That reminds me of another question that I've been meaning to ask, but always seem to forget.

    What sort of an area are overland fill styles supposed to represent? Are we talking sides that are 50 miles, or 100 miles?
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: Loopysueunless there's a limit to the number of fills a style can have
    No real practical limit as far as I know, the main issue is download size of the pack. Since fills are only referenced from the map, it won't affect .fcw size.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Here is the discussion I wanted to post in... good grief.

    I used Natalya Faden's Oljan maps and textures to make my overland map rectangles of 180x234 miles.

    Natalya Faden's textures and map
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Thanks for that, Jim :)

    Remy - I have noticed that when I have a whole folder full of my 3000 pi textures loaded for use it seriously slows down the texture picking dialog, and can even crash it if I click too impatiently. They take a while to load into the drop down menu thing, I think.

    Its because of that, as well as the download size, that I'm doing this set at 2000 pi each (once I've got them right). I should probably keep it down to no more than about 30-40 fills maximum in that case ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Are those textures properly prepared (with the 4 resolutions), or are you forcing the dialog to actually load the 3k versions (by having them as the only option).
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Oh yes - I always create other resolutions.

    I do tend to overload the textures though. For example I'll open a HW template, and then suddenly decide I'm doing something else with the map and load all the parchment fills, and then all the terrain fills, and then all the experimental fills.... pretty soon the list is well over 200 fills long.

    I sometimes try to thin them out a bit by deleting the ones I don't really want, but sometimes that actually causes a crash, so I tend to leave it well alone and just take my time when selecting a new fill.

    Its bad mapping practice, I know - not to be more disciplined about keeping the list down to a reasonable length. I just keep forgetting that there are already so many on that list and go and load a whole lot more on top without thinking until its too late.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    @LoopySue, you are welcome.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
     
    I think for now I've settled on 3 ice textures.

    This is the modified ice from above, now called "Ice glacier_SD"

    Ice glacier_SD.jpg

    This is "Ice pack_SD"

    Ice pack_SD.jpg

    And this is "Ice floes_SD"

    Ice floes_SD.jpg

    Late arrival - "Ice frozen lake_SD"

    Ice frozen lake_SD.jpg
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    I like them ! Yeehaaa ! I will definately try to use them. Most of my maps are temperate zones.
    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Well, for me, I prefer a pack with more fills than less. Those that offer only a few always end up hindering my map making in that style because it never fails that I need something not offered in the pack, so then I have to go look for one in another style pack that will match the style I'm using. So more is always better. Sort of like the idea with the two or three desert textures -- never hurts to have options. I like the ice and snow ones you just posted, for instance, and can think of places where I'd use each different one. So if you did a style set with 30 or 40 textures I would be a happy little mapper!!! lol! Also, I tend to lean toward the unique, rare and unusual (as our mini conversation about badlands and my comment about working on tepuis mountain symbols earlier above!), so having more choices is always a great thing for me!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018 edited
     
    LOL!

    I get the feeling that once this set is 'finished' from *my* point of view I need to go on a loooooooooong holiday on a desert island, and sort of accidentally leave my laptop at home! :P

    I'm not convinced by a couple of the ice fills. I might work on them a bit in Krita. The floes look like bits of bleached paper, and the frozen lake came out looking disturbingly close to photographic! Not what I wanted.

    I've moved on to try and cover other bits of the set. From my personal fills list I need to do:

    Tundra
    Marsh
    Swamp
    Badlands (even though I'm not happy with the one I did earlier - maybe I'll make a base fill to sit the hill symbols on - a "Badlands background")
    Volcanic2 (with lava filled cracks)
    Lava

    Then I need to move onto making a start on the tree symbol,s so that I can use them to create the forest fills in Krita, where the seamless mode will become invaluable. Something that irritates me a bit sometimes is when the forest fills don't really match the individual tree symbols, so I'm going to try and make sure that doesn't happen by creating all the tree symbols first and then using them to make the forest fills.

    I've never seen tundra before. All I know is that its constantly frozen a metre down into the ground, and that means trees won't grow on it. Photos seem to show the vegetation is reddish orangish, and that the seasonal freezing and thawing makes an irregular grid like pattern of low mounds. Logically, then, it might look a bit like this?

    Tundra winter_SD.jpg

    (This is in a very draft state - I need to do some work on it in Krita to add a bit of subtle shading to show the bare bits are the lumps)

    Does anyone know how big these lumps usually are in the real world?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJan 9th 2018
     
    Ummmm.....

    So far I've done 21 fills. In their png form they are 120 MB altogether.

    Are we already past the acceptable limit here?