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    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeMay 27th 2017
     
    Hello everyone.

    I decided to enter the monthly light challenge over at the Cartographer's Guild. This is my entry for a place to vacation for the summer. In my case, I wanted to go see the archaeological dig going on over in the country of Jordan. This is my map of what it is all about. This is still a Work in Progress.

    Enjoy
      Sodom in the time of Abraham and Lot.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 27th 2017
     
    Hey Tony :)

    Keeping each other company on both forums I see!

    Watching this one with interest :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 27th 2017
     
    Wow!
  1.  
    Really cool! :-)
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeMay 29th 2017
     
    Thanks Quenten and Charles. I promise I'll get back to it. Right after I started it I got really sick and now I'm just trying to keep from getting worse. But when I get a bit better I will do more work on this.
  2.  
    Take care of yourself!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 31st 2017
     
    Get well soon, Tony :D
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 31st 2017
     
    Get well soon, from me too.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMay 31st 2017
     
    Good luck !
  3.  
    Thanks for the well wishes everyone.

    So I've added a bit more. It is difficult to make this map because I am relying on the archaeology to see where the buildings are, and trying to match the buildings as best I can to the real ones is difficult.

    Anyway, here is the updated map. Enjoy.
      Sodom in the time of Abraham and Lo 2t.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2017
     
    This is coming on really well considering the nasty setback you've had, Tony :D
  4.  
    Thanks Sue. I've finally got the palace put in and some other parts of the upper city. I really need to get a wall started though.
      Sodom in the time of Abraham and Lot.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2017
     
    Here's an idea.

    How about importing the photo you are working from and making it a very transparent sheet underneath the buildings and trees and things that you are adding, so that people can see just how much work you are putting into making this an accurate map of the place?
  5.  
    I would love to except I am not allowed to download it into my program. No one is legally allowed to store it in any kind of retrieval device so I can't even show a picture of it. To make matters worse, the image I'm working from is actually Isometric so making a top down view is quite difficult. The image you can view does not zoom in very well either without pixellating out so it's been quite a chore just trying to get everything right.

    But if you want to go see it, you can go to:

    tallelhammam.com

    You can see the photographs and images in many different places and in the archaeology reports.
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2017
     
    Trvial point: Trinitite was first found at the site of the Trinity atomic test in New Mexico and its defining characteristics are its glassy character and mild radioactivity with specific radioisotopes. It's not found at impact craters, although impact glass (impactite) is common from impact craters.
  6.  
    Hmm, that is interesting. I got my information from the archaeologist working at the site. I'm not sure why the archaeologist would say that they found trinitite near the site and say it came from the meteor. That is very odd.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2017
     
    There is a city in I think India or the Middle East, and some dino bones, that are higher than usual radioactive. If you go to a museum and see paint on the fossilized bones, that is metal paint to protect visitors from the radioactivity. A natural reactor was found deep in an area of west Africa a few years ago. Water level dropped, and the pitchblende deep underground went critical. These are 3 different locations, not one.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2017
     
    Its enough to make you shudder, really, knowing that something that died 65 million years ago is still dangerously radioactive.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2017
     
    Posted By: jslaytonTrvial point: Trinitite was first found at the site of the Trinity atomic test in New Mexico and its defining characteristics are its glassy character and mild radioactivity with specific radioisotopes. It's not found at impact craters, although impact glass (impactite) is common from impact craters.


    Posted By: TonnichiwaHmm, that is interesting. I got my information from the archaeologist working at the site. I'm not sure why the archaeologist would say that they found trinitite near the site and say it came from the meteor. That is very odd.


    Actually, it's not all that odd Tonnichiwa, it's a fairly standard mistake by a specialist in one discipline using a term from another in which they're less familiar. Given that trinitite is a melt glass (basically, any substance heated to melting point and then cooled very quickly so no definable crystals are visible in it), it's perhaps more understandable, particularly as impact glass can be somewhat similar in form to trinitite.

    Looking through some of the papers online, it's clear several objects that have had some of their near-surface layers turned into a glassy substance have been recorded from this area, and the interpretations put on them so far could be seen as favouring a high-powered meteoritic impact or airburst event (the latter is much more probable, given the lack of a definable, substantial crater). This might not be the only explanation, however.

    It may be worth considering revising the text with your map to reflect this better, and the fact it seems primarily to be Phil Silvia and his colleagues who are calling it the "Kikkar Event"; I can't seem to find any useful discussion of it by members of the impact science community so far, at least not online, which would have at least given an added degree of robustness to the case.
    • CommentAuthorjslayton
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Mohenjo Daro (and to a lesser extent, Harappa) is a fun one for destruction conspiracy theorists. Lots of melted stuff and some reported anomalous radiation readings.

    Fossils are often radioactive because the replacement process favors uranium in the groundwater.

    The natural reactor at Oklo was discovered because the fissible uranium isotope (U235) was depleted in certain parts of the ore body. A couple of billion years ago the total amount of uranium was higher and it had been concentrated via the same sorts of processes that make fossils more radioactive than you might expect.

    Fun stuff.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    I'm always suspicious of 'findings' like this which seem to 'prove' the Bible. Is the archaeologist part of a Christian-sponsored team? Perhaps they are putting 2 and 2 together and coming up with fish?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Maybe they are fully trained and highly qualified archaeologists who also fancy that this automatically qualifies them as expert geologists ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Yes, there is often a degree of cross-specialization ignorance. Leads to erroneous conclusions
    • CommentAuthorseycyrus
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Why can't this piece simply be reflective of a story-line where the science is misconstrued?
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017 edited
     
    Hmm, I don't know that anyone said the science was misconstrued. Or have I misread the conversation? I think the key point made above is that an archaeologist probably mistook impactite from a meteorite impact for trinitite. Just as likely, the archaeologist meant impactite but simply used the wrong/imprecise term. Kind of like calling any old self-adhesive bandage a Band-Aid, when it's actually a specific brand name. Either way, and I could be wrong but, I think the general conclusion remains intact, that the destruction was caused by one or more meteorites.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Well, from my one archaeology class at university, I learned archaeologists don't study geology.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    This is fascinating.... and i second the idea of an ideal vacation going to an archaeological dig. What fun that would be! Especially of a city with a history such as this!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    +1

    I just about spazzed during my visit to Pompeii (and Rome). Something so ancient and educational would be a real adventure.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    I enjoyed Pompeii immensely. I've been to many ruins sites throughout europe and southern italy, mostly because of my love of history, i'm a dork, and was lucky enough to backpack europe twice with a great travelling companion back then....but wouldn't it just be grand to go and actually assist in the dig? I'm pretty sure there ARE vacations like that. I need to look into it!
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017 edited
     
    I think it was just an honest mistake on the part of the Archaeologist. In the first video I watched about this dig, which is how I found out about it in the first place, he called it Trinitite. But I did some digging and he has a more recent video than the first one I watched. And in this video he does talk about the differences between Trinitite and Impactite, and he shows examples of both side by side. And he confirms that it definitely is Impactite that was found.

    Are we allowed to link video's on this site?

    Anyway, the whole reason I wanted to do this one was because I wanted to map an ancient city. But not just ANY city. It had to be one that everyone used to think was nothing but myth, but had been found to be real. I had thought of possibly mapping the Ancient City of Troy, or one from Meso America that had been found under the ocean. I thought about Ancient Babylon,, and even about one of the cities of the Amorites, a people who the world thought was just a myth until information about them was uncovered sometime around 2013 or 2014.

    But when I learned about Sodom, I couldn't resist. So now I'm trying to keep up on as much of it as I can.

    And Lorelei, if you are interested, his website DOES give information about how you can volunteer to be a member of the Dig when the digging season starts. Unfortunately, I wish I would have known that the season is in January before I said I wanted to go visit it sometime in summer. So for this year, the dig season is already over.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    I've been to Pompei, the Acropolis, and a few other places in my US Navy days. I would liked to have seen Herculaneum, but it hadn't been found, or maybe not opened to the public, when I was last over there. I have a number of slides and prints... but no idea which box out of slightly over 100 they might be in.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Oh, there are local digs. I know of one in the south US, and likely there are some in Europe and Englang as well.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Oh they're always digging up things over here in the UK. In fact I didn't know there was a 'dig season'. I've seen sites covered over in plastic tent things before now in the dead of winter, with people still moving about on them. I suppose that's because a lot of it happens just before some horrid office block goes up, so nothing can wait till the nice weather.

    You can't build anywhere over here without hitting something Roman it seems - either that or you hit a right royal grave - King Richard III (Richard the Lionheart) last time.
  7.  
    The dig season happens because it has something to do with the Government of Jordan only letting them dig at certain times of year. I think if it were not for the government then this dig would be an all year around thing.

    That is actually very cool that you guys can find all sorts of roman things over there. Over here, we have native American things. So if you go digging and run across something Native, you have to let the government know about it, then often times, there will be Native American protestors who do not want Archaeologists digging up the bones of the Ancestors so they usually shut down any more Archaeology. Sometimes the dig sites can continue but more often than not they are just shut down and the land proclaimed as off limits.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Posted By: TonnichiwaAre we allowed to link video's on this site?
    Of course (unless they contain questionable content or otherwise is against the guidelines).
  8.  
    Thanks Monsen. I wasn't really sure if I could because while they are Archaeology, they are also religious based and I wasn't sure if topics about religion could be posted. I was simply fascinated by the idea of them actually having found the ancient city.

    So this is the first video where he basically says it is trinitite.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hO8t-jDrF7E

    And this is the newer video where he shows it is impactite.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3lf4rwTx3lc&t=2676s

    Note that the names of the videos were given by someone else, not by the Archaeologist.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    Sue, King Richard III was the reviled King of Shakespeare's play. Richard the Lionheart was the son of Henry II, and was Richard I. Sorry to be a history nerd
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2017
     
    LOL! no worries. I get all the kings and queens mixed up. I hated history at school. They made something that should be fascinating totally boring and horrible by turning it into a list of dates and names that had to be remembered parrot fashion and dutifully regurgitated in the final exam. Talk about killing the curiosity in a child!

    Consequently, I am no history nerd, since my head is now full of things I find a lot more interesting, like the concept of finding an English king buried under something as mundane as a car park in the City of York, UK.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2017
     
    There are likely digs in the UK and don't require travel outside the country.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2017
     
    Posted By: Loopysue
    Consequently, I am no history nerd, since my head is now full of things I find a lot more interesting, like the concept of finding an English king buried under something as mundane as a car park in the City of York, UK.


    Talk about an ignoble end for someone who once wore a crown! :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
     
    Hey Tony :)

    Are you still working on this one?

    There's only 4-5 days left now.

    I hope you haven't fallen ill again!
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
     
    Most dig seasons I know about are when university students are out of class for the summer. They volunteer to go on digs as some of the manual labor or cataloging teams.
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
     
    Hi Sue, no, I'm not ill anymore, I've just got real life things that took priority for a bit.

    I do have a bit of an update though. I've decided I am just doing the upper tell wealthy district. But I am unsure how I want to represent the hill that the city sits upon. I'm also unsure if I should try to represent the farmland that was around the city.

    Anyway, here's the map
      Sodom in the time of Abraham and Lo 2t2.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2017
     
    Very glad to hear you are ok :D

    The map has come on a long way!

    I can't answer the questions you pose, since how I imagine it would never be the same as the way you would, but I am certain the solution will be a good one ;)
  9.  
    Glad you are doing better! Great maps! :-)
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2017
     
    Thanks Sue, Thanks Charles. So I finally completed the map. This is it's final form. Enjoy :)
      AUTOSAVE.JPG
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2017
     
    I would say you stand a really good chance of being the first exclusively CC3 map to win a challenge ;)

    Good luck! :D
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2017
     
    A great map. I'll vote for it. Best of luck in the challenge
    • CommentAuthorTonnichiwa
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017
     
    Thanks Sue, I doubt it though. Some people won't vote for a CC3 map no matter what the map looks like.

    Thanks Quenten. I did make a mistake in this map with the direction of the compass because I was working with an upside down diagram of the archaeological dig that didn't have a compass on it and they made it seem as if North was actually pointing down. In reality the compass should be pointing more to the Northwest. I've corrected it on the map for the challenge but I really didn't see the point of doing it here because the map really was just made for the challenge.

    Anyway, the challenge ends tonight so we'll see how it goes. :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 14th 2017
     
    Well if you're right about people not voting for CC3 maps just because they are CC3 maps and not PS maps, then neither of us are going to do very well - even though there are only 5 runners including you and me.

    It doesn't really matter, though. It was fun taking part :)