Not signed in (Sign In)

Vanilla 1.1.4 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome Guest!
Want to take part in these discussions? If you have an account, sign in now.
If you don't have an account, apply for one now.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    Greetings!

    I am a new mapper. :) And, yes, I did a search before posting, however, I may not have exhausted the relevant search terms, and, heck, I am new to the forum...

    Anyway, I've started my own map and created some cave floors and outlined them with walls. There are some places where the effects look a bit odd, so, I could use a little help.

    Please reference the attached image, particularly the areas circled in blue (shoulda used the red pen - oops!).

    The first area, the "spike," really doesn't belong, and the second area, which looks "rough" seems odd. My overall question is how do I correct that? I know it has something to do with deleting nodes, but, a) how do I see the nodes, and b) how do I select more than one node at a time in order to delete them?

    Thanks!

    Sincerely,

    //s// Jon C. Munson II
      MapNodeEdit.PNG
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    This occurs when nodes are very closed together combined with a sharp angle. You can't visually represent the nodes, but there is a node at every single bend in the fractal line (The line itself is the visualization of the nodes). Nodes are deleted using the Remove Node command, you'll find the button for it near the bottom of the left toolbars.
    You cannot select multiple nodes at once, but when using the remove nodes command, they are instantly deleted once you click on them, so they don't really need to be selected.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    Well, I was hoping to be able to see the nodes - clicking all over the wall line doesn't seem to hit the right node... :/ Guess I'll just keep clicking away! :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    Temporarily reducing the line width will usually make the actual nodes clearer, but this had the "negative" effect that the abnormalities will also disappear.

    Also note that for the spike, the offending nodes are within the area you encircled, not at the tip of the spike.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    Alright - starting to get a handle on map node edits on fractal shapes... whew... Here is the affected area after a bit of "clean up" effort.

    Question - is there a good explanation of the values for strength & depth somewhere? I played around a little, however, didn't seem to get too far (and ran out of time to mess with it further). I don't mind redrawing the cave system - it isn't that big and doesn't take that long - if I can reduce the number of nodes a little and have it come out overall better. That is, if this is really not very acceptable (will have to look at a Schley map I have around here to compare).

    Thanks for the assistance to date! :)
      MapNodeEdit2.PNG
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    Posted By: JMunsonIIQuestion - is there a good explanation of the values for strength & depth somewhere?

    Check out Monsen's Command of the Week post on the FRACTALIZE command. Maybe that will help.
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    Thanks - I'm on it!!! :)
    • CommentAuthorJMunsonII
    • CommentTimeFeb 16th 2017
     
    OK, been playing a little... The following is with Strength 20 & Depth 2, using the Cave tool. I found that creating a polyline resulted in a smoother "cave," but, the wall outline didn't work as it followed the connections between the nodes and not the fill (so there's more learning to do I think).

    I find the cave tool, below the "default" values, tends to give more sharp corners, and scalloped walls - and there seems to be no way to stop that behavior... More thinking to do it seems...
      MapNodeEdit3.PNG
    • CommentAuthorBoneBoxer
    • CommentTimeMay 23rd 2019
     
    JMunson, I had the same questions about nodes. It's very frustrating that there is no way to reveal nodes. Every other drawing program I have ever used does that, so it feels strange. Would you mind elaborating on how you wound up dealing with that to find nodes?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019 edited
     
    The nodes are exactly where the kinks in the lines are.

    If you only want to move or delete one or two, the node editing tools work pretty well. You don't have to be right on top of a node to move it. Just click close to it on the line and the move node tool will pick it up. If you have one very close to another that you want to delete, the delete node tool will delete the closest node on the line you click.

    These are the node editing tools. They are on the left toolbar. The function of each tool is labelled if you hover over them.

    node editing tools.jpg

    If you are editing a smooth line (curved) you can Toggle frames from the Tools menu (Tools-->Drawing aids-->Toggle frames). Then switch them off again when you have finished by picking the same command a second time. The frames give you a straight line ghost of the nodes controlling the curve.

    toggle frames.jpg
    • CommentAuthorseycyrus
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    Posted By: LoopysueThe nodes are exactly where the kinks in the lines are...


    While all of this is true, it makes the whole process sound a LOT easier than it actually is.

    Most of the time, the crazy kinks disapear as you try to zoom in on them, making it akin to trying to poke an ant with a piece of dried spaghetti that is 3 feet long. Sometimes you get lucky right away ...
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    LMAO!

    Thanks, seycyrus. You made me laugh for the first time in a couple of days now with that metaphor :P

    It gets easier with practice - promise :D
    • CommentAuthorBoneBoxer
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    It's especially difficult if you're using fractal lines like in cave drawings (which happens to be the first big project I'm taking in with DDP). I tried about twenty times to click on a node and simply could not get ahold of one.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    What tool are you using?

    Things that make node editing impossible:

    - If the node is part of a shape that is a multipoly - these have to be exploded first using the explode tool, and then re-multipolied after the edit
    - if the polygon is on a layer that has been frozen - check which layer the polygon is on (layer, not sheet) and unfreeze the layer if it is frozen.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    Also, if the node is the apex of an incredibly sharp point like the ones in JMunsonII's first post, it may be easier to just delete a few nodes in that region generally by hitting the lines either side of the tangle with the delete node button. You can always add a couple back in after you have simplified the tangle enough to get rid of those spiky bits.
    • CommentAuthorBoneBoxer
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    I am using multipoly, so that must be my problem! Thanks!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    Ah ha! Yes :)

    Use the explode tool on it. This will temporarily destroy your combined shape, but all you have to do when you have moved or deleted the offending nodes is use the multipoly tool on it again.
    • CommentAuthorseycyrus
    • CommentTimeMay 24th 2019
     
    I just use the fractal poly, as i'm not advanced enough to use multi... :)

    And I still have a horrendous time finding the offending nodes.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2019
     
    Well I haven't even got that far! I usually use the freehand drawing tool and turn my lines into polygons :P
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMay 25th 2019
     
    I have maps where I fractalized too much. I used the node edit and delete node to move map backgrounds that have come in too far for the map frame/border to cover them. Outside I don't worry about it too much if the Screen sheet covers them.

    Some maps I have had to struggle with, but overall the commands just need getting used to.