Cartographer's Annual Vol. 8 - Compatibility issue with CC3+

I just bought the Cartographer's Annual Vol. 8 and wanted to add it to my CC3+ and SS4
I did that more or less solely to get the advertised October 14 Annual which states:
"Dwarven Dungeon artwork by TJ Vandel (aka Schwarzkreuz) works as its own drawing style, but is also designed to function as an extension to Symbol Set 4 – Dungeons of Schley."

"Man, I love Mike Schleys style and I would love to see more symbols for that!" I thought and out came the credit card.

Well sadly it DOES NOT, because I can't install the annual since it does not seem to be CC3+ compatible! Not awesome.
So did I just blast 35€ through the chimney for absolutely nothing? Seems so.

My two questions:
a) Is there a way to get the Dwarven Dungeon artwork into CC3+/SS4 manually?
b) If not, is there a ETA when it will be made compatible wit CC3+ (if ever)?

disclaimer: "Use the annual in CC3! (without the plus)" is not an option, so keep that advise to yourself.

I hope there is a way to get this working, else I have to check the refund policy. (edit: just saw the 14 day money back guarantee. So at least that seems settled if all else fails)

Finally a tip for the good people at ProFantasy: How about you mark your products compatibility nice and big, right there on their respective product pages? Would save customers a lot hassle...

cheers

Comments

  • 1. Yes, the annuals will eventually be updated for CC3+
    2. No timeline
    3. I do not think that there is a way to transfer them from CC3 to CC3+ at this time, but I could be wrong
    4. Being tactful works

    ;-)
  • Hello and thanks for your answers!

    That is too bad, I would have preferred a working solution to a product return. I will wait for some more input, maybe someone knows a way after all.
    As a technician I prefer direct and precise over tactful ;)

    cheers
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    edited April 2016
    Posted By: CharlesWayneRobinsonI do not think that there is a way to transfer them from CC3 to CC3+ at this time, but I could be wrong
    It can be done, but one needs some rather comprehensive understanding of the inner workings of CC3+ to do it. However, if getting the annual's symbols into CC3+ are the key goal:

    1. Install CC3 too, whether you want to or not. You don't have to use it.

    2. Install the annual into CC3.

    3. Import the symbols ... just like any other imported symbols ... into CC3+.

    4. Make the CC3+ catalog(s) that you need for the imported symbols.

    Full instructions on importing symbols and making catalogs can be found in the Tome of Ultimate Mapping.
  • edited April 2016
    Posted By: Vintyri
    Posted By: CharlesWayneRobinsonI do not think that there is a way to transfer them from CC3 to CC3+ at this time, but I could be wrong
    It can be done, but one needs some rather comprehensive understanding of the inner workings of CC3+ to do it.
    I see. Since I don't have this comprehensive understanding, is there documentation? Or even better a step by step guide,like this one here: Link to forum post
    As far as I see it CC3+ is based on some CAD program - data structure is a little over the place but not too difficult to find all directories. If the file format of CC3 and CC3+ is the same it should basically be a "copy all the stuff to the right folders and tell the program where to find them" job, no?
    But thats just a guess...

    Edit: oh I see you added an instruction after I wrote this, THANK YOU for that. Getting another product for documentation, to maybe be able to use part of this ... hm. Difficult choice.
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    Posted By: MarkusNEdit: oh I see you added an instruction after I wrote this,
    Right. I clicked the send button prematurely and by accident.
    Since I don't have this comprehensive understanding, is there documentation? Or even better a step by step guide,
    Unfortunately, no. There are important things in the conversion from CC3 to CC3+ that haven't been documented yet, as far as I know ... things like running the FFIX macro, substituting the CC3+ @ operator for the CC3 # operator, etc.
    As far as I see it CC3+ is based on some CAD program - data structure is a little over the place but not too difficult to find all directories. If the file format of CC3 and CC3+ is the same it should basically be a "copy all the stuff to the right folders and tell the program where to find them" job, no?
    No. Both CC3 and CC3+ run atop the FastCAD engine. Things are the same up to that point, but atop the CAD engine, the two programs go in some different directions. CC3 has to register internal data in the Windows registry. CC3+ does it with .cif and .cis files in the Data Folders, as well as knowing how and when to run the FFIX macro, substitute the CC3+ @ operator for the CC3 # operator, etc.
    Getting another product for documentation, to maybe be able to use part of this ... hm. Difficult choice.
    Your basic decision probably is whether CC3+ is the right cartographic program for you. One should keep in mind that CC3+ hasn't been released yet as a full product. It still is in the early adopter stage. The current version of CC still is CC3, not CC3+. ProFantasy still is working on the final release of CC3+ as well as the conversion of CC3 supporting material for CC3+. That takes time, but in my opinion, it's happening at a very respectable pace.

    If you think that CC3+ is the right cartographic program for you, and you intend to do more than casual mapping with it, I very strongly suggest that you buy the Tome. It contains almost all of the information you'll ever need. Once you learn the things in the Tome, you can check back here and doubtless get some help in things like running the FFIX macro, substituting the CC3+ @ operator for the CC3 # operator, etc.

    On the other hand, if you're still open on the question if whether CC3+ is the right program for you, then you probably need to come to a conclusion on which mapping program you want to use before you spend more money.
  • edited April 2016
    Your basic decision probably is whether CC3+ is the right cartographic program for you. One should keep in mind that CC3+ hasn't been released yet as a full product. It still is in the early adopter stage. The current version of CC still is CC3, not CC3+. ProFantasy still is working on the final release of CC3+ as well as the conversion of CC3 supporting material for CC3+. That takes time, but in my opinion, it's happening at a very respectable pace.
    Ah, I didn't know that. I was under the impression CC3+ was a finished product.

    As for the question if CC3+ is the right program for me: I bought the CC3+ CD3+ DD3+ Bundle and the SS4 addon ... That was some investment, so I am going to stick with it. :)

    The interface is a little counter-intuitive, but that is the whole CAD approach how things should work.
    What I find disturbing is how crash prone the program is - as soon as you come near the 4GB Memory mark, it goes bye-bye. Hopefully thats something that will be improved (there wont be a 64bit version I am sure).

    For now I will just return the Annual I guess.
    Once its made compatible for CC3+ I can still come back for it.

    Thanks again for your very helpful answer!
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    Posted By: MarkusNWhat I find disturbing is how crash prone the program is - as soon as you come near the 4GB Memory mark, it goes bye-bye. Hopefully thats something that will be improved (there wont be a 64bit version I am sure)
    ProFantasy has suggested that there will be no 64-bit versions until perhaps that probably distant day when CC4 arrives. Unfortunate, to be sure.
  • Note that this software doesn't yet use your video card nor ram over 4 gigs. Some of us have made some very complicated maps.

    Fractalizing is limited by Windows. And I don't use symbols at continent level maps.

    Can you give us an example of what you are doing when it crashes ?
  • edited April 2016
    Posted By: JimPNote that this software doesn't yet use your video card nor ram over 4 gigs. Some of us have made some very complicated maps.
    Fractalizing is limited by Windows. And I don't use symbols at continent level maps.
    Can you give us an example of what you are doing when it crashes ?
    Sure.

    Mostly I do battlemaps in DD3+ sizes around 60x40, but it does not really matter (same under CC3+ or CD3+ maps). If you use it long enough, switch between styles, import bitmap fills, change around sheet effects, whatever, the memory usage goes up and up and around 3.5 - 4 gig the application crashes. (just watch the memory allocation)
    Same 100% reproducible behavior under two different Windows 7 Professional 64bit setups (completely different Hardware - one a high end gaming machine, other a robust workstation)


    Edit:
    I did a little experimenting - Sheet Effects seems to be the killer here. Memory usage goes through the roof when you activate and play around with them (which I do a lot) - memory usage does not go back down when you deactivate them though - thats something the programmers need to look into. Clean up processes are either not there or not working correct.
  • Interesting. I've never had that problem. One of my overland templates I made has around 15 bitmap fills in it. I'm currently making most of my maps on a 64-bit 1.2 GHz laptop running Win 8.1. I haven't used Win 7 for map making. My other computer is a Vista desktop. Plenty of large maps with lots of bitmap fills.

    But I haven't been using sheet effects.

    As for it crashing, I save often, but not to one filename.

    I save as to filename01_001 to start, make a few changes, save as to filename01_0002, etc. So if it crashes, i haven't lost much.

    Someone with more knowlegde than me will have to help on the crashing problem.
  • Posted By: JimPSomeone with more knowlegde than me will have to help on the crashing problem.
    Nothing much anyone can do from a user level. That looks like faulty memory management. Only a programmer (or a bunch of them ;) ) can fix that.

    cheers
  • I was thinking about this. Is it crashing out to desktop ? Or are you closing the program when the software reaches max ram ? It will do the later when doing heavy calculations like large maps or sheet effects. I've had CC2, CC3, and CC3+ go to not responding, and then it stops doing that and goes on.
  • Posted By: JimPI was thinking about this. Is it crashing out to desktop ? Or are you closing the program when the software reaches max ram ? It will do the later when doing heavy calculations like large maps or sheet effects. I've had CC2, CC3, and CC3+ go to not responding, and then it stops doing that and goes on.
    Its a classic CTD. fcw32.exe stopped working.
    Try it yourself. Turn on sheet effects. add some stuff, change around effects. redraw. zoom. watch the memory.
  • Jay_NOLAJay_NOLA Traveler
    I use Windows 7 Professional 32 bit and noticed that certain programs tend to get memory leaks on it. Is it crashing if you do a fresh reboot and just use CC3+ right away. Windows 7 needs a fresh reboot periodically I've found with CC3 & CC3+ on my system.

    CC3+ has less crashes I've noticed than CC3.

    Also you want to check that no other programs got stuck running in the background that could be causing memory resources to be eaten up and that you don't have heavy memory usage programs auto-running in the background.
  • Hey there Jay, thanks for the well meant but off target tips :D

    To say it as clear as possible: the problem is the application.
    The issue is clear and 100% reproducible. If an application hogs memory until it crashes no well meant OS grooming will solve anything. Believe me, I am a sysadmin! And I have tried turning it off and on again :D
  • I'm a sysadmin to, 30 years experience. First starts do work sometimes.
  • At my last job we had network problems that only a reboot could solve. It forced the network to reconnect to the pc.
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