How Do You Find the Right Symbols for Your Maps?
Marja Erwin
Traveler
I am looking for symbols/icons for supply bases, factories, mines, and ports, as well as capitol cities, partisan bases, battlefields, etc.
I got the big bundle earlier this year, and have been trying to use Campaign Cartographer 3+ to draw maps for my wargame projects. It's set in 1919. I didn't think the fantasy styles would fit, so I started with 1930s Overland.
I lined up my source maps, got the right scale and rotation, and drew railroads, rivers, and most of the coastline; I still have trouble with some lakes and islands. See this discussion here: https://forum.profantasy.com/discussion/15235/how-can-i-draw-real-world-places-in-campaign-cartographer/p1 I might write up instructions later.
Now I want to add the cities and towns. Some are notable for their size, others for each of the other reasons above. I couldn't find all the appropriate icons in 1930s Overland or any other set. I tried these instructions: https://rpgmaps.profantasy.com/using-multiple-symbol-styles/ but the search only finds bitmap icons, not vector icons like circles. If I search for *factor*HI.png, I don't get anything. If I search for *mine*HI.png, I get drawings of mountains with dwarven mines, more mountains, what seem to be icons for explosive mines, and pieces for location maps.
If there aren't suitable CC3+ symbols, I wonder how to import other symbol sets created for other tools.
If there are, I've drawn coasts, rivers, and railroads as polygons and paths. I don't want curves, because they make it harder to trace these and to keep these in the right hexes. I *really* don't want fractals for the same reason. But I wonder if there's a way to convert these to more elegant styles.
I tried converting some of the railroads from width-1 black paths to 1930s Overland railroads, but I couldn't see the 1930s Overland railroads. Maybe it requires a smaller scale, larger screen, better eyesight, and/or certain backgrounds.
Comments
If it is the size of existing 1930s Overland symbols you want to change for different sized towns and cities you can make the symbols larger or smaller by holding down the CTRL key and moving the mouse while you have the symbol on the crosshairs, or by right clicking while you have the symbol on the crosshairs and setting the scale precisely in the Symbol Parameters dialog that opens.
You are right - fantasy styles don't contain a huge number of relatively modern or real world symbols, but since the 1930s Overland symbols are vector symbols, it is possible to make new symbols to match the style in your own design. The process does involve quite a bit of mouse work, though, which may not be what you want to have to do. On the plus side, however, if you create your own new vector symbols you can add them to the symbol catalogue and use them again and again in as many maps as you like. Ralf demonstrated the making of a new fallen tree symbol in another vector style in this video if you wish to give it a try. I've linked to the point where he starts the work, but you might want to watch the whole show to get your bearings and fully understand what's happening at that point.
Thanks.
CA42 Modern Political has more city size options; the icons start smaller than CA84, but I can resize them.
I can search the File Explorer to find bitmap symbols, but I can't do that for vector symbols. I can open Select Drawing Tool and search every single style in turn, for either ty[pe, but it's a pain, and what works in the preview might not work on the map or vice-versa.
I don't mind using zig-zag lines and polygons for coasts, rivers, and railroads, but would like the option to replace them with other styles, e.g. to allow black-and-white printing. I can't figure out how to convert what I've drawn. I can't figure out how to replace what I've drawn either, either. Most of the existing styles are curves or fractals instead of straight paths, so they don't go where I've drawn them.
Some of the fancier vector symbols break during editing. Like river symbols with separate parts for the banks and the water, where trying to adjust these can separate the banks from the water or vice-versa. Some of them don't display properly at low resolution. Like the railroad symbols.
The last point there in particular is a good plan, though remember to create new ones rather than overwriting the old ones. You can only get the old ones back again by reinstalling.
There are some basic geometric vector shapes available in the Symbols => Maps => Other folder, as "Geometry.fsc". These have a fixed colour, however, but if you have the CA62 Geometry.fsc symbol catalogue as well (it's in the same folder), that has varicolor options for the same basic shapes. That might expand your vector symbol options sufficiently.
As for converting colour maps to black-and-white, try adding an RGB Matrix Process effect set to "Gray", and see how well that works. You may need to adjust the full-colour version of the map to keep the contrast sufficiently clear in the greyscale view, but you can turn it on and off as required for exporting images of the map.
I'm trying to create a symbol catalogue. I can't figure out how to import pngs. I open the import dialogue, pick the folder, and I get (using an absolute path)
"Processed 0 PNG files:
0 symbols already existed (any changes have been updated)
0 symbols were created or recreated (replaced)
0 symbols were deleted"
Or I get (using a relative path)
"The selected path does not include any PNG files"
(There are 43 .png files in that folder. I've organized them by Project/Publisher/Set. I'm not sure whether CC3+ symbol catalogues require all the symbols to be in the same folder, or can combine symbols in multiple folders.)
A symbol catalog can be made to contain symbols from multiple folders, but this is an advanced process, and you will always need to run the import once for each folder, it won't process a complete folder structure with subfolders in one go in any case.
Please can you show a screen shot of the import dialog just before you hit OK?
Thank you, Marja.
CC3 automatically selects absolute path when the Source folder is outside the ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus\Symbols folder
You will need to move that folder inside the Symbols folder, and preferably (for the sake of good organisation) within a new subfolder called User. C:\ProgramData\Profantasy\CC3Plus\Symbols\User.
I already tried each version, including absolute path.
I wanted to keep my work together, to minimize trouble with the File Explorer; I'm going to move this to the above folder and try a shortcut to my project folder.
I still get "The selected path does not include any PNG files."
Checking the help:
(quote) First, make a folder under Symbols\User, with your own name,
I'm testing symbols from other software, 1st, so using the publisher's names.
(quote) then add a folder below that with the name of the art you want to import.
What? Am I supposed to create a folder for each image, with its own name?
Type in the resolution you worked out in step 3 above.
What?
I still get "The selected path does not include any PNG files."
If the folder is in the correct place (ie if you put all your different publisher folders inside the one called User you just created) you should be able to use the "relative to CC3 path" which is the preferred method.
I still get "The selected path does not include any PNG files."
Other publishers often use jpg images instead of pngs, but CC3 can only see pngs. If any of the artwork is anything other than a png file it's invisible to CC3.
I'm not really following you on the rest of it...
EDIT: Remy just pointed out to me where those quotes came from, and I have to admit I was a bit confused reading that thing. I've just also been reminded that you don't much like videos (sorry for earlier video links). Do you have the Tome of Ultimate Mapping?
I have the Tome, and just checked the pdf. I haven't installed it.
The publisher folders contain subfolders, and the subfolders contain pngs. It turns out I can import the subfolders. But most of the instructions seem to involve creating subfolders to organize the pngs, and then importing the whole thing at once.
The help guide includes instructions on scaling, but they aren't in step 3. Apparently the usual scaling is 20 pixels per map unit; with 32 map units per hex, I want most symbols to be between 320 and 80 pixels across.
I am new to Windows, and don't know what bitmap editing software would be a good choice, to check scaling, or to create my own images. I need to avoid flashing, animated zooming, and so on. The Tome mentions Gnu Image Management.
Instructions in the Tome are much more up to date than the built-in help, and in my opinion they are less likely to be confusing. Don't get put off by the enormous size of the book (well over 700 pages). The Tome isn't meant to be read from cover to cover, but used more like an encyclopedia to look things up. It has a good hyperlinked index and is also bookmarked throughout.
Yes, GIMP is a good free app. Krita isn't too bad either, and is used by many freelance fantasy cartographers who don't want to use rental software like PS. Krita has the added bonus of something they call Wraparound mode, in which you can hand paint your own seamless texture tiles if you go down that road in the future. Whichever you choose, GIMP and Krita are as different as chalk and cheese. Both are good editors, but I recommend picking just one to start with and sticking with it until you know it reasonably well. That's unless you happen to be the kind of person who can learn two completely different apps at the same time without developing a headache.
In some ways, I am a simple minded fellow. I mostly like to use current military symbols for maps. I tried the various methods suggested above and could never get it to work. So, I wrote down the symbol name and the location on a piece of paper. Then when I am looking for the appropriate symbol, I merely pulled out my paper, navigated to the appropriate symbols, and placed them on the map. Crude but effective.
The methods described above are both more elegant and efficient, but brute force and ignorance sometimes trumps the three "E's". (First be effective, then be efficient, then be elegant.)
I don't understand. Do you have these symbols in Campaign Cartographer 3+? Or do you have these symbols somewhere else, and have some way to include them without creating symbol catalogues for them?
I have CA35 with the NATO symbol set, but the set's too limited.
I should add that the NATO symbols were derived from de facto international symbols from the early 20th century.
Here's a German atlas from 1922 with solid blocks for infantry and the diagonal slash for cavalry:
And a Soviet history from 1928 with X for infantry and artillery, / for cavalry, on pages 61, 62, and 65:
And a lot of wargames build on early versions of the NATO standard.
It sounds like you want a set of varicolour symbols - symbols that you can pick a colour for from the palette before you paste each time.
Are we still talking about vector symbols here, or png images? You can make varicolour symbols for either, though it is easier with vector symbols.
In the Tome of Ultimate Mapping (the Tome) the making and/or editing of vector symbols is covered from page 105, and the making of varicolour versions is from page 111.
The making and editing of bitmap symbols is covered from page 108, and the making of the varicolour versions is from page 113. The Tome uses GIMP as the free bitmap editor in these examples, but you can use any bitmap editor if you prefer something other than GIMP.
As regards the making or not making of symbol catalogues - in the crudest sense these are how the symbols are made available between maps, though a catalogue also allows a multitude of different controls and grouping into collections. In the case of vector symbols in particular you will probably need a catalogue if you want to draw more than one map, or you will have to painstakingly copy everything across from the map where you created them each time you start.
EDIT: It has been suggested behind the scenes that maybe what you need is the unit symbols from the WWII Atlas. There are a lot of vector unit symbols there - in varicolor. Here is a shot of the symbol catalogue to show you what we mean - first with red selected, and then with blue.
The labels under each can be edited as you paste them.
For the map, I need symbols for ports, mines, factories, arsenals/supply depots, etc. as well as different-sized cities. I have vector graphics for some of these, mostly various circles abd some stars for cities. One of the manuals suggests searching the symbols by filename, but that only works with raster symbols. I also have some open Hex Kit sets, notably the Eryssel's Journeys sets, and a Worldographer set.
For the counters, I use nanDeck instead of CC3+, and I wote a script with a range of vector symbols. That said, I could also use ww1-era icons.
I haven't tried either of the raster drawing apps yet, too busy trying other things.
You might find some of the free download items on John Cooper's gaming website of use. These include SPI-style counter images (not NATO style), as well as other more NATO-like military symbols on counters, old-style terrain fills, and suchlike.
Marja: I don't understand. Do you have these symbols in Campaign Cartographer 3+? Or do you have these symbols somewhere else, and have some way to include them without creating symbol catalogues for them?
If you are asking me, there are three problems I have with CC3+ and modern military mapping:
Hopefully this helps.
[quote] Do you have these symbols in Campaign Cartographer 3+?
I have some of them, such as port icons. I don't think I have the others. One of the manuals suggests using the file manager to search the CC3+ data folder for [asterisk]likelyname[asterisk].png, but that only works for raster images, so maybe I've missed relevant vector images.
[quote] Or do you have these symbols somewhere else, and have some way to include them without creating symbol catalogues for them?
I have some asset sets. I was wondering how to find appropriate sets, with appropriate symbols, and then import them into Campaign Cartographer, to create catalogues. I had a lot of trouble with the import, because some of the directions encouraged users to create or retain subfolders to keep things organized, and it turns out the import system can't find files in these subfolders.
I checked both Tom Mouat's and John Cooper's websites, but no luck.
I really don't have the coordination to avoid mis-clicks. For a simply polygon, I can go in and add, move, or remove points after creation. It's one reason I want to see the points. For the fancier CC3+ shapes, like rivers with the banks as an object and the water as another object, that breaks down, badly, and the parts get separated.
This site has the NATO symbols in font form. http://www.mapsymbs.com Down load then go into CC3+ and use the font to symbol function, in the drop down menu for text (text botton on the right side). Now you have a symbol set of most if not all the NATO symbols. Does that cover?
Let's go back to the beginning:
I am looking for symbols/icons for supply bases, factories, mines, and ports, as well as capitol cities, partisan bases, battlefields, etc.
Unit symbols are nice, but they aren't what I'm looking for.
I searched DrivethruRPG and Wargame Vault. There are some Worldographer packs that almost fit, but not quite. There are others that support tile-mapping of coasts instead of tracing, but they have the coasts pass through the cormers of hexes, which doesn't really work with this terrain, and they don't handle long narrow penunsulae such as Arabat well.
I tried searching Itch, but it's hard to search that site.
I am unfamiliar with CartographyAssets: https://cartographyassets.com/assets/?srch=factory It had what looked like a promising series, but apparently the artist involved used hallucinationmachines in their work.
or FantasyMapAssets
or how to know the safest places to find assets.
Well, I think I can help you.
Go to https://spatialillusions.com/unitgenerator/ and you should see "Symbol Set" and it shows Land Unit.
Then click on the Land Unit and select Land Installations
In the upper left you see a large blue rectangle with a small black box on the top.
Go to Main Icon, click the drop down and you will see a lot of possibilities. Scroll down until you get to Airport
Then just explore the various drop downs.
Go to the bottom and you will see Show Additional Options and you will get some 'standard colors" but there is also a place on the right that you can select custom colors. In this case I indicated it is a Civil Airport, the name is MCO (Orlando International Airport, but it was original McCoy AFB), and it is fully capable.
Once you are satisfied with the symbol, you click png to save it to your computer. The icon will then be very large, but you can use a graphics program to change the size, and then save it with an appropriate name.
I suppose you could make a special symbol set that has all the symbols you want and then reduce the size in CC3+ rather than having a bunch of different sizes.
If you want to know more about the symbols, you can go here: https://www.jcs.mil/Portals/36/Documents/Doctrine/Other_Pubs/ms_2525d.pdf or you can search for Army Field Manual 1-02.2 Military Symbols. You should be able to download it from the Army Publication Site or other sites. IT will show examples for many symbols.
Tom's stuff is good, but I think the above is better, but since it is based on text, I think it is less flexible and sometimes does funny things. I used it a lot until I discovered these sites.
I'm sorry I failed to understand you were more interested in installation symbols rather than tactical symbols.
Thanks!
Head's up that the site involves a lot of scrolling through separate columns and menus. If you're sensitive to this, I think it can be worth it to retrieve a few simple symbols, but may not be worth it to create complex symbols. I opened the site in reader view and searched for "mine" and "factor" then "industr" to see what was available. I was also careful to use keyboard navigation instead of mouse nav.
The "Mine," "Industrial Site," and "Government Site" icons should be good and clear. I'll probably retrieve new copies with white backgrounds.
The "Ammunition and Explosives Production" icon might be confusing, but it could work for ammunition factories, arsenals, and supply bases.
The actual unit symbols were harder to create, and weren't as clear. (A big X with a small A? A big oval with a flatcar? An indecipherable black box?) So I'll keep using my own tools for those.
Glad I could help.
The Big X: Infantry (Represents two rifles. In the US Army its the branch symbol with two crossed muskets) You will also see symbols that have a large oval with the infantry symbol which means it is mechanized infantry (has tracks). There is a similar symbol with a diagonal line which is cavalry (stems from a saber) and it may also have the oval indicated armored cavalry.
Capital A: Attack, normally used for attack helicopters or attack aircraft. It can be used for other things. It would not be used with Infantry. In some cases, you might see at the bottom of the symbol a small symbol which indicates the vehicle has tracks, but it is not a tank. you might also see a small symbols with three circles ooo which means it is wheeled cross country (like a six wheel armored car) or with two circles oo which indicates a wheeled platform.
A Big Oval: Armor (Represents the tracks that the tank moves on)
Flatcar: at the bottom of the unit box, it indicates a Towed platform. When you are in the icon section, there is a symbol that has a line at the bottom and two circles underneath the line. That indicates that particular platform a mortar and is self-propelled.
If you are talking about the large black box on the installation, that is just the symbol to indicate that it is an installation/building. I don't see a solid black box in the unit icon.
I have these counters:
And was jokingly comparing them to these icons from the generator:
I used the A because I couldn't find any other symbol for officers' units or other elite units. I used the H because these armored trains were far better-armed and armored than early tanks.
Ah, I see.
I don't know that there is any special symbol for "officer" units. For, say an Armor Basic or Advanced class 'company' you can add a text in the symbol box saying AOB (Armor Officer Basic) or AOA (Armor Officer Advanced). For other elite units I think you are pulling my leg a little bit. Many of the specialty units there are several symbols for units like SF, SOF, RNGR, SEAL, etc and other modifiers are used in the top and bottom fields of the unit graphic.
Heavy Tank BN, M60A2 Tank Battalion, Generic Missile Armed Tank Battalion
and yeah. The only color for the various interior symbols, outline, and unit size is black. But I suppose you could use a graphics program to change it to a desired color, Like White.