That’s a map of a RenFaire on real-world Earth (hence “Bravo Company” and having a “War Museum” and the misspelled “Cemetary”) that a mischievous Elminster inserted because something secret to the faithful of Mystra (the creation of a Weavegate or portal, leading to a hidden safehold) was going on in the real Blackfeather Bridge at the time, and he didn’t want a “real” map to get out there that wouldn’t match what folks found “on the ground” if they visited Blackfeather Bridge—which would reveal the gate.
Elminster did tell me that The Happy Sheep is called that because they took lamb off the menu when the new cook took over the place, but that you should NEVER order the “pickle beer” they serve there. “Truly vile,” he termed it. “Like the bladder-voidings of an old, sick horse. So of course Volo will recommend it.”
So of course, we now have to keep the map as canon! ;)
So of course, we now have to keep the map as canon! ;)
Bloody Brilliant, I love my fellow Canadian. Ed Greenwood is among my very fav Canadians of all time. I hope he catches wind of this and takes a peek in. Specially to give insight on a few of the hidden maps with no link references.
On a sidenote I have gotten through about 8% of all the maps. Doing manual comparisons. Starting from the lowest map numbers and working to the top then the alphabetical. It's nice sometimes only having to compare two maps instead of four. Maybe I can make a bit of a dent in it over the Canada Day long weekend,
200 maps into manually comparing them visually. 15 maps are specific to a certain update to make sure they work properly.
I am updating it to the spreadsheet as I go.
So I think that puts me just slightly under 25% of all the maps done. It is really slow when I have to compare 4 maps at once. I couldn't imagine doing this project on my last PC or even 15 years ago. Maps load almost instantly now. Before you could watch symbols almost load in the order they were created on a map.
Can someone take a look at B1cSWlc. Update 2 looks like they were going to make a hotspot link to another area map. Doesn't work though. Update 3 doesn't have that box.
CD version is Missing link to "2710 Shrine of the Heart" and "Shoonach" (plus some other "minor" entities I was too lazy to take note).
Updates 1 and 2 are binary-identical. The map for Shrine of the Heart wouldn't be added until update 2, but you can keep either as long as you remember to include 2710 Shrine of the Heart.fcw in your final selection.
Update 3 has a different binary, but all entities are identical.
Update 2 looks like they were going to make a hotspot link to another area map
[...]Update 3 doesn't have that box
Weird. I don't see anything strange between up2 and up3. In case someone missed that post, I'm not doing a visual comparison; I report (LIST) all entities and compare the resulting text.
Nonetheless, this is what they look like on screen for me:
(I did try comparing in a larger size, but this is the largest size I could fit them both in one screen)
My conclusion is that you can keep any version from update1 to update3 for B1cSWlc.FCW (though I'll probably favor up3 whenever this comes up, since it's the last update applied and I wouldn't have to save intermediate versions for too many maps).
By the way, the same thing happens for 4860 Shoonach.FCW: updates 1 and 2 are binary-identical and they are entity-identical to update2. Both versions (up2 and up3) of 2710 Shrine of the Heart.fcw are entity-identical as well.
Bottom line: you should be able to keep version from update 3 for the three maps: B1cSWlc.FCW, 2710 Shrine of the Heart.fcw, and 4860 Shoonach.FCW.
I have gotten up to map 30000 visually scanning and comparing maps. So that is about 500 done of 850.
A huge portion of the remaining maps are comparing only 2. That part will go fairly quick. But some of the remaining maps are parent maps with so many links. Those will slow me right down.
So far I have found about 70 maps that need a particular version for the links to work right. Hopefully I can post my findings at the end of this week. I have put it on my spreadsheet. Aligning with the updates. So glad I took the time to do that. It has saved so much info logging.
I am hoping once this is done. So many links will be fixed just by switching files, that the majority of broken links won't have to be changed manually.
This certainly has been a journey of discovery with the help of you all. Discovery of small mistakes when they compiled the updates. Accidentally mixing older and newer files together throughout the three updates.
Most are included in all updates so scanning over 4 copies at once to slow me down.
When I compare the maps I select the proper map based on correct links, additional map info or additional parent links.
Some of the later maps in Update 2 and 3 link to another parent map instead of one of the main master area maps. I choose those so there is a correct sequence going up and down.
Hi @Don V Anderson Jr. : I'm nowhere near the point where you are, but I decided to cross check your not-so-large list from your previous post...
TL;DR: Your suggestions seem on-spot, except for:
B1cNWlc for which Update3 should be used IMO.
Sembia for which I suggest Update3 should be used (and then fix 2 hotspots; details below, near the end)
And then there are some minor things I found:
4360 Kuo Meilan is missing a label for building "10".
4850 Shadowdale: I like the version from up3 a bit more (reasons below).
There. That's the TL;DR. You can stop reading if you wish. ;)
With that out of the way... here's my full analysis.
0070 Amelior's workshop UPDATE 1
According to my records, all 4 versions of this map should be identical (my notes suggest to pick any).
0080 Secret Cave UPDATE 1
According to my records: all 3 versions (up1-3) of this map should be identical. Up1 should be fine.
0090 College of Rune Magics UPDATE 1
According to my records: CD is missing a link to 0100 College of Shaping Magics. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
0100 College of Shaping Magics UPDATE 1
According to my records: CD is missing links to 0090 College of Rune Magics.FCW and 0110 Mount Drakkor Rouge.FCW. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
1140 Macoley farm UPDATE 1
According to my records, all 4 versions of this map should be identical (my notes suggest to pick any).
1270 Mage Lords Crypt UPDATE 1
Up1-2 are binary-identical, with Up3 being entity-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
1960 Arnagus the shipwright UPDATE 1
According to my records, all 4 versions of this map should be identical (my notes suggest to pick any).
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House UPDATE 1
Up1-2 are binary-identical, with Up3 being entity-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing "Frozen wreck", link to 6780 Sewers Under Zhentil Keep.FCW, and link to 5470 Zhentil Keep.FCW (pre-1368). Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
3820 Azatl UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 0460 Death's Head Bar.FCW and 0470 Golotl's House.FCW.
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
3981 Dagger Falls UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to 1280 Eagle's Eyrie.FCW and 1270 Mage-Lords Crypt.fcw. There are also a few cosmetic changes, most notably: the roof styles ere changed and the path no longer passes above the river on the ford.
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4080 Elmwood UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing "Frozen wreck", link to 2730 Under Elmwood.fcw. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4160 Eveningstar UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to 1260 Haunted Halls of Eveningstar.fcw, 1240 The House of the Morning .fcw, and 1230 Tessaril's Tower.FCW.
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4220 Helmsport UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to 0420 Caxal's Palace.FCW and 0430 Drakosa Estate.FCW.
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4330 Ixtul UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4360 Kuo Meilan UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 2310 Palace of Ultimate Felicity.FCW. However, a label (building "10") was removed in Up1 (by mistake, I prsume).
Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3, and perhaps to edit and add the missing label.
4430 Manass UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4530 Michaca UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 0530 The Gilded Kiva Surroundings.fcw.
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4750 Raven's Bluff UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now (wow! such a big map)...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to 1050 Ashakar's Accessories.fcw, 0920 Sparkling Edge.FCW, 0990 Leaf In Root.fcw, 1190 Coker Wharf Company.FCW, 1040 Flirin's Sea Morsels.fcw, 1010 Safe Harbor Marine Insurance Company.fcw, 0840 Lair of Jeremiah Morningmist.FCW, 0960 The Jack Mooney & Sons Circus (B).FCW, and 1070 The Lighthouse.FCW
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4850 Shadowdale UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-2 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 0800 The Lair of Alokkair.FCW. There are too many tweaks made between up2 and up3, so I compared the links: they are all present. I like the version from up3 a bit more: the textures are softer, the scale bar is larger (and more legible), and the drop shadow for text is less noticeable.
Lacking a more thorough comparison, I guess up1 should be fine; but my notes now suggest up3.
4950 Suzail UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 0160 Thistleflame Keep.fcw
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4970 Tantras UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD has no link to temple of Torm. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4971 Tantras 3D UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD has no link to 1350 Temple of Torm.fcw.
Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5390 Waymoot UPDATE 1
All 3 versions (up1-3) of this map are identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5390 Westgate UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing a link to 6300 The House.FCW.
Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5450 Yulash UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD has no link to 5640 Temple of Moander; buildings are filled with color black. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5470 Zhentil Keep UPDATE 1
Up1 and up2 are binary-identical. Up3 has missing links and legend. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1,2.
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground UPDATE 1
Up1 and up2 are binary-identical. Up3 is blank. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1,2.
30005 aru UPDATE 2
Up3 is blank. Up2 is the only option.
30138 catacombs of moradask UPDATE 2
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Both up2 and up3 are entity-identical.
Up2 should be fine; my notes now suggest up2,3.
B1cNWlc UPDATE 2
Hadn't checked this one until now...
CD has missing link to 3150 Cloister of St Ramedar Overview. Up1 is missing a link to Amn.FCW. Up2 has several malformed links (absolute path) and has missing links compared to update1 because they were moved to Amn.FCW (such as 0260 Ilefarn Area A Workshops, 3990 Daggerford, 4040 Dragonspear Castle, 3810 Athkatla, 1300 Way Inn Village, and 3960 Crimmor) and is missing a link to Tethyr.fcw compared to up3. Up3 fixed all absolute paths and yet more links were moved to eitherAmn.FCW or Tethyr.fcw (460 Zazesspur.FCW, 4560 Murann.FCW, and 3150 Cloister of St Ramedar Overview.fcw).
Update3 is definitely the more complete map.
B1dNElc UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing a link to 2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House.fcw, 2350 Red Mountain Monastery.fcw, Manass.fcw, and 2180 Horseshoe Temple.FCW.
Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
Sembia UPDATE 2
Hadn't checked this one until now...
This was a tough one. All maps are different, and all have some error or another:
CD is missing link to 6280 North Gate Inn.FCW, 10024 Heggar's Bridge.FCW, 3280 Typical Sembian Family Farm.fcw
Up1 is missing link to 4180 Halfhap.FCW and 0200 Tower of Ruin.FCW
Up2 has broken link to 5110 Urmlaspyr.FCW, missing link to 10024 Heggar's Bridge.FCW (which was working fine in up1). An finally, several underwater sites are not shown (compared to up3).
Up3 has broken links to High Dale.fcw and 3280 Typical Sembian Family Farm.fcw (prepended folder named "Maps/" in path)
Of these, I'd go for Update3, not only because the previous maps are missing some locations and tweaks, but because it's the easiest to fix: for the 2 offending links, edit the hotspot and remove the "Maps/" part of the path.
I just deleted all of the 4 folders worth of maps. Are you sure you have them separated and individually installed in sequence each time?
The reason I ask this is that some maps only ever appeared in a single update. 0080 Secret cave is one, 4430 Manas, 5390 waymoot.
3820 Azatl the links for death head and gotls only appear on one map. To find them you have to hide the wards legend.
With many of the maps hot spots/hyperlinks did not appear. Specifically Sembia. I chose the one where the child map links worked. I always chose the map with proper links to the child maps. And haggars only appeared on the one. But other areas didn't have hot spots to child maps.
I will re-install the four folders again today and diligently go through the 30 and give brief notes why I chose those. Then we can see exactly what is going on.
It is unreal that you are showing same data, but when I did them all certain hot spots did not show or operate at all.
Maybe we will have to compare actual files of update 1 update 2 and update 3?????
They aren't regular cab files. They are installer files that export as the same end name.
I've looked through my 7 usb external drives and can only find friaupdate3.
Apparently I thought when I did the updates, I found my Atlas folder on a backup drive, and didn't keep 1 and 2 as I didn't realize all of these changes had happened.
Just finished reinstalling all four versions of the atlas so I can deep dive into the 30 problem files.
0070 Amelior's workshop same size file all updates
0080 Secret Cave only update 1
0090 College of Rune Magics update 1 is 1kb larger.
0100 College of Shaping Magics update 1 is 1kb larger.
1140 Macoley farm same size file all updates
1270 Mage Lords Crypt update 1 is 159kb larger.
1960 Arnagus the shipwright same size file all updates
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House update 1 is 162kb larger.
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 update 1 is 137 kb smaller
3820 Azatl UPDATE 1 same all
3981 Dagger Falls update 1 is 3kb bigger
4080 Elmwood update 1 is 1kb bigger
4160 Eveningstar update 1 is 258kb smaller
4220 Helmsport update 1 is 1kb bigger
4330 Ixtul only update 1
4360 Kuo Meilan update 1 is 1kb bigger
4430 Manass only update 1
4530 Michaca same all
4750 Raven's Bluff 3000kb smaller update 1
4850 Shadowdale different sizes
4950 Suzail update 1 is 3kb bigger
4970 Tantras update 1 is 1kb bigger
4971 Tantras 3D same all
5390 Waymoot only update 1
5390 Westgate update 1 is 134kb smaller
5450 Yulash update 1 is 1000kb smaller
5470 Zhentil Keep same size
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground update 1 is 133kb larger
30005 aru update 2 is 185kb bigger
30138 catacombs of moradask same size files
B1cNWlc update 1 is 134kb
B1dNElc update 1 is 238kb larger
Sembia differnt sizes
I am going to compare these files once again and confirm which have the optimal links, Maybe someone who is more CC3+ savvy than me can figure out why such different sizes of files.
Are you sure you have them separated and individually installed in sequence each time?
Yes, I'm pretty sure I was very careful on this step.
I installed the CD and created a copy of the maps folder. Then I installed update1 and backed up the folder again. And then the same for the other two remaining updates. Btw, I still have all 4 folders readily, so I'd be happy to answer questions on the status of certain files.
It might be obvious, but perhaps I should clarify that when I mention Update3, I really mean the result of installing CD, then Up1, then Up2, and finally Up3. This is important because at the very beginning I did one test here I only installed up3, and I had some maps missing. For example, 0080 Secret Cave.fcw was not present if you just install update3.
Maps like B1cNWlc make me feel confident in my method (because all 4 maps are different), but there's always a chance for human error. So... there's that.
EDIT: I just noticed I left this question unanwsered:
Maybe we will have to compare actual files of update 1 update 2 and update 3?????
[...]
I mean like the actual compressed update files.
I did think about it, but I quickly found out I wasn't meant to do so, so I dug no further. Like JimP correctly pointed, these are not your typical cab files.
EDIT2: I created another XLS export for my records, might as well attach it:
This is a list of why each file was chosen in my opinion. My opinion is just that. I am sure you all could convince me why my decision is wrong. I am totally open to other opinions / options.
0070 Amelior's workshop----- ?????
0080 Secret Cave ----- only possible option
0090 College of Rune Magics --Only update 1 has a link to #0100 college of shaping magics
0100 College of Shaping Magics --Only update 1 has a link to #0090 college of shaping magics and #0110 mount drakkor rouge
1140 Macoley farm ??????
1270 Mage Lords Crypt ???????
1960 Arnagus the shipwright ?????????
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House ?????????
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 ------- update 1 is the only map that links #6780 sewers under zhentil keep and #5470 zzhentil keep
3820 Azatl -------Update 1 is the only one that has links to #0460 deaths head bar and #0470 golotls house
3981 Dagger Falls update 1 is the only map that links #1280 Eagle Eyrie #1270 mage lords crypt # 0770 garrison headquarters
4080 Elmwood -----update 1 links #2730 under elmwood
4160 Eveningstar ---- update 1 completes links to #1240 the house of the morning and #1230 Tessaril Tower
4220 Helmsport -----update 1 adds links to #0430 drakosa estate and #0420 caxals palace
4330 Ixtul ----only possible option
4360 Kuo Meilan ---- only map that links #2310 palace of ultimate felicity
4430 Manass -----only possible option
4530 Michaca ------ link to #0530 the gilded kiva surroundings
4750 Raven's Bluff ------ adds 3 or more links jeremiah morning mist, jack mooney and sons, the lighthouse
4850 Shadowdale update 1 and 3 work minor link difference
4950 Suzail ---- update 1 is the only one that has #0160 thistleflame keep
4970 Tantras ---- update 1 is the only one that has #1350 temple of torm
4971 Tantras 3D ---- update 1 is the only one that has #1350 temple ot torm
5390 Waymoot -----only option
5390 Westgate ---- update 1 is the only one that has #6300 link
5450 Yulash ---- update 1 is the only one that has #5640 the temple of moander
5470 Zhentil Keep ---- update 1 is the only one that has working links
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground ----- update 3 is a broken map, update 1 works
30005 aru ----- update 3 is a broken map, update 1 works
30138 catacombs of moradask -----???????
B1cNWlc -----I was wrong on this one. Update 3 is better than 2. 2 links some more individual maps. 3 links to child maps, that include the maps links that update 2 had
B1dNElc -- ?????
Sembia chose this because the link to High Dale wasn't broken
The ones with ????? I will have to delve in deeper to figure out why I chose them. (I think some had the background image that I deleted on only one of the maps. Thus skewing my choice.)
All the rest I have tried to show a concise reason for my choice.
Seeing how many maps there are, I wonder how many hours to took to make these maps originally? I think it would take a lot longer now with the new symbols, tools, effects, etc.
If I remember correctly it took less than a year...
There was large group of volunteers corralled and managed by Linda Kekumu in January 1999. They did most of the tracing over FR maps scans. In May most maps where submitted and then there was a second stage of adding "unknown areas" essentially high level maps of the whole globe not covered by the regular FR products.
Then the whole thing went to ... (Ian ???) for an editing check.
The first update (which added quite a lot of maps) was done "before" Christmas 99
The one shown by JimP above is the "main" map. But then you could zoom into each of the wards and get more detailed maps. And then there are a few areas where a "street level" area is detailed.
To give you a feeling of it all, I captured an animated GIF and placed it here:
Latest work is just compiling everything into the actual FRAtlas program folder.
Had to allow permissions to overwrite all the files.
For some reason lots of the files could be dragged and dropped, but 3820 Azatl just would not overwrite.
Eventually I found a work around. Opened the file in CC3+. Then used save as. Went down to the FRAtlas file then the maps folder and saved over the original file. That fixed that map not being correct,
Next project is to go through all the links once again. I am hoping that all but a few of the original problem links are fixed.
With the exception of the 4 or 5 problem areas. Zhentil, Daggerdale etc etc.
Eventually I found a work around. Opened the file in CC3+. Then used save as. Went down to the FRAtlas file then the maps folder and saved over the original file. That fixed that map not being correct,
Because of the way Windows works, this isn't doing what you want. Since Windows Vista, Windows have been using UAC to protect the contents of the program files folders from modifications. Programs shouldn't be writing to these areas. However, the FR Atlas is an old product from before that era. So to ensure compatibility for legacy software, Microsoft redirects the writes to files in here to the virtual store instead of blocking them (Which could have caused severe problems for an older program not understanding before being blocked). The file looks overwritten from the program that did it, thank to the virtual store, but thee file is NOT being overwritten, and other tools may still see the original file.
Comments
I've got news on this subject! I sent a twitter to Ed concerning this map...
... and here's what he has to say:
That’s a map of a RenFaire on real-world Earth (hence “Bravo Company” and having a “War Museum” and the misspelled “Cemetary”) that a mischievous Elminster inserted because something secret to the faithful of Mystra (the creation of a Weavegate or portal, leading to a hidden safehold) was going on in the real Blackfeather Bridge at the time, and he didn’t want a “real” map to get out there that wouldn’t match what folks found “on the ground” if they visited Blackfeather Bridge—which would reveal the gate.
Elminster did tell me that The Happy Sheep is called that because they took lamb off the menu when the new cook took over the place, but that you should NEVER order the “pickle beer” they serve there. “Truly vile,” he termed it. “Like the bladder-voidings of an old, sick horse. So of course Volo will recommend it.”
So of course, we now have to keep the map as canon! ;)
So of course, we now have to keep the map as canon! ;)
Bloody Brilliant, I love my fellow Canadian. Ed Greenwood is among my very fav Canadians of all time. I hope he catches wind of this and takes a peek in. Specially to give insight on a few of the hidden maps with no link references.
On a sidenote I have gotten through about 8% of all the maps. Doing manual comparisons. Starting from the lowest map numbers and working to the top then the alphabetical. It's nice sometimes only having to compare two maps instead of four. Maybe I can make a bit of a dent in it over the Canada Day long weekend,
200 maps into manually comparing them visually. 15 maps are specific to a certain update to make sure they work properly.
I am updating it to the spreadsheet as I go.
So I think that puts me just slightly under 25% of all the maps done. It is really slow when I have to compare 4 maps at once. I couldn't imagine doing this project on my last PC or even 15 years ago. Maps load almost instantly now. Before you could watch symbols almost load in the order they were created on a map.
Can someone take a look at B1cSWlc. Update 2 looks like they were going to make a hotspot link to another area map. Doesn't work though. Update 3 doesn't have that box.
Sure thing. Here's what I found:
2710 Shrine of the Heart.fcwin your final selection.Update 2 looks like they were going to make a hotspot link to another area map
[...]Update 3 doesn't have that box
Weird. I don't see anything strange between up2 and up3. In case someone missed that post, I'm not doing a visual comparison; I report (LIST) all entities and compare the resulting text.
Nonetheless, this is what they look like on screen for me:
(I did try comparing in a larger size, but this is the largest size I could fit them both in one screen)
My conclusion is that you can keep any version from update1 to update3 for
B1cSWlc.FCW(though I'll probably favor up3 whenever this comes up, since it's the last update applied and I wouldn't have to save intermediate versions for too many maps).By the way, the same thing happens for
4860 Shoonach.FCW: updates 1 and 2 are binary-identical and they are entity-identical to update2. Both versions (up2 and up3) of2710 Shrine of the Heart.fcware entity-identical as well.Bottom line: you should be able to keep version from update 3 for the three maps:
B1cSWlc.FCW,2710 Shrine of the Heart.fcw, and4860 Shoonach.FCW.Small update.
I have gotten up to map 30000 visually scanning and comparing maps. So that is about 500 done of 850.
A huge portion of the remaining maps are comparing only 2. That part will go fairly quick. But some of the remaining maps are parent maps with so many links. Those will slow me right down.
So far I have found about 70 maps that need a particular version for the links to work right. Hopefully I can post my findings at the end of this week. I have put it on my spreadsheet. Aligning with the updates. So glad I took the time to do that. It has saved so much info logging.
I am hoping once this is done. So many links will be fixed just by switching files, that the majority of broken links won't have to be changed manually.
This certainly has been a journey of discovery with the help of you all. Discovery of small mistakes when they compiled the updates. Accidentally mixing older and newer files together throughout the three updates.
Small update
down to 185 maps to compare.
Most are included in all updates so scanning over 4 copies at once to slow me down.
When I compare the maps I select the proper map based on correct links, additional map info or additional parent links.
Some of the later maps in Update 2 and 3 link to another parent map instead of one of the main master area maps. I choose those so there is a correct sequence going up and down.
Small update.
Down to 70 maps to do.
These are essentially all of the Volo maps.
I am hoping to put up my spreadsheet with all this info on Thursday.
I found an error with my spreadsheet, that found me a solo map in Update 3 - Myth Drannor. That is the only place it appears.
I have completed my visual/link check of all 855 maps.
Simplified the process as much as possible.
Install the CD and update 1. Move that file to desktop
Install CD - update 1 - update 2 move the file to the desktop
Install CD - update 1 - update 2 - update 3 leave it.
Insert all of the following maps from the update indicated.
0070 Amelior's workshop UPDATE 1
0080 Secret Cave UPDATE 1
0090 College of Rune Magics UPDATE 1
0100 College of Shaping Magics UPDATE 1
1140 Macoley farm UPDATE 1
1270 Mage Lords Crypt UPDATE 1
1960 Arnagus the shipwright UPDATE 1
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House UPDATE 1
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 UPDATE 1
3820 Azatl UPDATE 1
3981 Dagger Falls UPDATE 1
4080 Elmwood UPDATE 1
4160 Eveningstar UPDATE 1
4220 Helmsport UPDATE 1
4330 Ixtul UPDATE 1
4360 Kuo Meilan UPDATE 1
4430 Manass UPDATE 1
4530 Michaca UPDATE 1
4750 Raven's Bluff UPDATE 1
4850 Shadowdale UPDATE 1
4950 Suzail UPDATE 1
4970 Tantras UPDATE 1
4971 Tantras 3D UPDATE 1
5390 Waymoot UPDATE 1
5390 Westgate UPDATE 1
5450 Yulash UPDATE 1
5470 Zhentil Keep UPDATE 1
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground UPDATE 1
30005 aru UPDATE 2
30138 catacombs of moradask UPDATE 2
B1cNWlc UPDATE 2
B1dNElc UPDATE 1
Sembia UPDATE 2
There still remain a few problematic areas of the map.
The Archendale problem area.
The Blackfeather bridge area problem. Just noticed that area is on a few maps.
Desert of Desolation maps
Zhentil keep area.
There are broken links still in some areas. But this big fix corrects about 99% of all the Forgotten Realms Atlas links.
I've printed this page to pdf.
Hi @Don V Anderson Jr. : I'm nowhere near the point where you are, but I decided to cross check your not-so-large list from your previous post...
TL;DR: Your suggestions seem on-spot, except for:
B1cNWlcfor which Update3 should be used IMO.Sembiafor which I suggest Update3 should be used (and then fix 2 hotspots; details below, near the end)And then there are some minor things I found:
There. That's the TL;DR. You can stop reading if you wish. ;)
With that out of the way... here's my full analysis.
0070 Amelior's workshop UPDATE 1
According to my records, all 4 versions of this map should be identical (my notes suggest to pick any).
0080 Secret Cave UPDATE 1
According to my records: all 3 versions (up1-3) of this map should be identical. Up1 should be fine.
0090 College of Rune Magics UPDATE 1
According to my records: CD is missing a link to
0100 College of Shaping Magics. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.0100 College of Shaping Magics UPDATE 1
According to my records: CD is missing links to
0090 College of Rune Magics.FCWand0110 Mount Drakkor Rouge.FCW. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.1140 Macoley farm UPDATE 1
According to my records, all 4 versions of this map should be identical (my notes suggest to pick any).
1270 Mage Lords Crypt UPDATE 1
Up1-2 are binary-identical, with Up3 being entity-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
1960 Arnagus the shipwright UPDATE 1
According to my records, all 4 versions of this map should be identical (my notes suggest to pick any).
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House UPDATE 1
Up1-2 are binary-identical, with Up3 being entity-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing "Frozen wreck", link to
6780 Sewers Under Zhentil Keep.FCW, and link to5470 Zhentil Keep.FCW(pre-1368). Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.3820 Azatl UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to
0460 Death's Head Bar.FCWand0470 Golotl's House.FCW.Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
3981 Dagger Falls UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to
1280 Eagle's Eyrie.FCWand1270 Mage-Lords Crypt.fcw. There are also a few cosmetic changes, most notably: the roof styles ere changed and the path no longer passes above the river on the ford.Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4080 Elmwood UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing "Frozen wreck", link to
2730 Under Elmwood.fcw. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.4160 Eveningstar UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to
1260 Haunted Halls of Eveningstar.fcw,1240 The House of the Morning .fcw, and1230 Tessaril's Tower.FCW.Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4220 Helmsport UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to
0420 Caxal's Palace.FCWand0430 Drakosa Estate.FCW.Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4330 Ixtul UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4360 Kuo Meilan UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to
2310 Palace of Ultimate Felicity.FCW. However, a label (building "10") was removed in Up1 (by mistake, I prsume).Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3, and perhaps to edit and add the missing label.
4430 Manass UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4530 Michaca UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to
0530 The Gilded Kiva Surroundings.fcw.Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4750 Raven's Bluff UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now (wow! such a big map)...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing links to
1050 Ashakar's Accessories.fcw,0920 Sparkling Edge.FCW,0990 Leaf In Root.fcw,1190 Coker Wharf Company.FCW,1040 Flirin's Sea Morsels.fcw,1010 Safe Harbor Marine Insurance Company.fcw,0840 Lair of Jeremiah Morningmist.FCW,0960 The Jack Mooney & Sons Circus (B).FCW, and1070 The Lighthouse.FCWUp1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4850 Shadowdale UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-2 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 0800 The Lair of Alokkair.FCW. There are too many tweaks made between up2 and up3, so I compared the links: they are all present. I like the version from up3 a bit more: the textures are softer, the scale bar is larger (and more legible), and the drop shadow for text is less noticeable.
Lacking a more thorough comparison, I guess up1 should be fine; but my notes now suggest up3.
4950 Suzail UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing link to 0160 Thistleflame Keep.fcw
Up1 should be fine; my notes now suggest up1-3.
4970 Tantras UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD has no link to temple of Torm. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
4971 Tantras 3D UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD has no link to
1350 Temple of Torm.fcw.Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5390 Waymoot UPDATE 1
All 3 versions (up1-3) of this map are identical. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5390 Westgate UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing a link to
6300 The House.FCW.Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5450 Yulash UPDATE 1
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD has no link to 5640 Temple of Moander; buildings are filled with color black. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
5470 Zhentil Keep UPDATE 1
Up1 and up2 are binary-identical. Up3 has missing links and legend. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1,2.
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground UPDATE 1
Up1 and up2 are binary-identical. Up3 is blank. Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1,2.
30005 aru UPDATE 2
Up3 is blank. Up2 is the only option.
30138 catacombs of moradask UPDATE 2
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Both up2 and up3 are entity-identical.
Up2 should be fine; my notes now suggest up2,3.
B1cNWlc UPDATE 2
Hadn't checked this one until now...
CD has missing link to
3150 Cloister of St Ramedar Overview. Up1 is missing a link toAmn.FCW. Up2 has several malformed links (absolute path) and has missing links compared to update1 because they were moved toAmn.FCW(such as0260 Ilefarn Area A Workshops,3990 Daggerford,4040 Dragonspear Castle,3810 Athkatla,1300 Way Inn Village, and3960 Crimmor) and is missing a link toTethyr.fcwcompared to up3. Up3 fixed all absolute paths and yet more links were moved to eitherAmn.FCWorTethyr.fcw(460 Zazesspur.FCW,4560 Murann.FCW, and3150 Cloister of St Ramedar Overview.fcw).Update3 is definitely the more complete map.
B1dNElc UPDATE 1
Hadn't checked this one until now...
Up1-3 are binary-identical. CD is missing a link to 2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House.fcw, 2350 Red Mountain Monastery.fcw, Manass.fcw, and 2180 Horseshoe Temple.FCW.
Up1 should be fine; my notes suggest up1-3.
Sembia UPDATE 2
Hadn't checked this one until now...
This was a tough one. All maps are different, and all have some error or another:
6280 North Gate Inn.FCW,10024 Heggar's Bridge.FCW,3280 Typical Sembian Family Farm.fcw4180 Halfhap.FCWand0200 Tower of Ruin.FCW5110 Urmlaspyr.FCW, missing link to10024 Heggar's Bridge.FCW(which was working fine in up1). An finally, several underwater sites are not shown (compared to up3).High Dale.fcwand3280 Typical Sembian Family Farm.fcw(prepended folder named "Maps/" in path)Of these, I'd go for Update3, not only because the previous maps are missing some locations and tweaks, but because it's the easiest to fix: for the 2 offending links, edit the hotspot and remove the "Maps/" part of the path.
Hope this helps.
I just deleted all of the 4 folders worth of maps. Are you sure you have them separated and individually installed in sequence each time?
The reason I ask this is that some maps only ever appeared in a single update. 0080 Secret cave is one, 4430 Manas, 5390 waymoot.
3820 Azatl the links for death head and gotls only appear on one map. To find them you have to hide the wards legend.
With many of the maps hot spots/hyperlinks did not appear. Specifically Sembia. I chose the one where the child map links worked. I always chose the map with proper links to the child maps. And haggars only appeared on the one. But other areas didn't have hot spots to child maps.
I will re-install the four folders again today and diligently go through the 30 and give brief notes why I chose those. Then we can see exactly what is going on.
It is unreal that you are showing same data, but when I did them all certain hot spots did not show or operate at all.
Maybe we will have to compare actual files of update 1 update 2 and update 3?????
I mean like the actual compressed update files.
They aren't regular cab files. They are installer files that export as the same end name.
I've looked through my 7 usb external drives and can only find friaupdate3.
Apparently I thought when I did the updates, I found my Atlas folder on a backup drive, and didn't keep 1 and 2 as I didn't realize all of these changes had happened.
I am unable to find update1 and 2.
Does anyone know where they are ?
Thanks.
Here is the archive link
https://web.archive.org/web/20110322093635/http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/ex20020218a
Thanks, evidently my search fu is broken today.
Just finished reinstalling all four versions of the atlas so I can deep dive into the 30 problem files.
0070 Amelior's workshop same size file all updates
0080 Secret Cave only update 1
0090 College of Rune Magics update 1 is 1kb larger.
0100 College of Shaping Magics update 1 is 1kb larger.
1140 Macoley farm same size file all updates
1270 Mage Lords Crypt update 1 is 159kb larger.
1960 Arnagus the shipwright same size file all updates
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House update 1 is 162kb larger.
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 update 1 is 137 kb smaller
3820 Azatl UPDATE 1 same all
3981 Dagger Falls update 1 is 3kb bigger
4080 Elmwood update 1 is 1kb bigger
4160 Eveningstar update 1 is 258kb smaller
4220 Helmsport update 1 is 1kb bigger
4330 Ixtul only update 1
4360 Kuo Meilan update 1 is 1kb bigger
4430 Manass only update 1
4530 Michaca same all
4750 Raven's Bluff 3000kb smaller update 1
4850 Shadowdale different sizes
4950 Suzail update 1 is 3kb bigger
4970 Tantras update 1 is 1kb bigger
4971 Tantras 3D same all
5390 Waymoot only update 1
5390 Westgate update 1 is 134kb smaller
5450 Yulash update 1 is 1000kb smaller
5470 Zhentil Keep same size
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground update 1 is 133kb larger
30005 aru update 2 is 185kb bigger
30138 catacombs of moradask same size files
B1cNWlc update 1 is 134kb
B1dNElc update 1 is 238kb larger
Sembia differnt sizes
I am going to compare these files once again and confirm which have the optimal links, Maybe someone who is more CC3+ savvy than me can figure out why such different sizes of files.
@Don V Anderson Jr. ..
Are you sure you have them separated and individually installed in sequence each time?
Yes, I'm pretty sure I was very careful on this step.
I installed the CD and created a copy of the maps folder. Then I installed update1 and backed up the folder again. And then the same for the other two remaining updates. Btw, I still have all 4 folders readily, so I'd be happy to answer questions on the status of certain files.
It might be obvious, but perhaps I should clarify that when I mention Update3, I really mean the result of installing CD, then Up1, then Up2, and finally Up3. This is important because at the very beginning I did one test here I only installed up3, and I had some maps missing. For example,
0080 Secret Cave.fcwwas not present if you just install update3.Maps like
B1cNWlcmake me feel confident in my method (because all 4 maps are different), but there's always a chance for human error. So... there's that.EDIT: I just noticed I left this question unanwsered:
Maybe we will have to compare actual files of update 1 update 2 and update 3?????
[...]
I mean like the actual compressed update files.
I did think about it, but I quickly found out I wasn't meant to do so, so I dug no further. Like JimP correctly pointed, these are not your typical cab files.
EDIT2: I created another XLS export for my records, might as well attach it:
This is a list of why each file was chosen in my opinion. My opinion is just that. I am sure you all could convince me why my decision is wrong. I am totally open to other opinions / options.
0070 Amelior's workshop----- ?????
0080 Secret Cave ----- only possible option
0090 College of Rune Magics --Only update 1 has a link to #0100 college of shaping magics
0100 College of Shaping Magics --Only update 1 has a link to #0090 college of shaping magics and #0110 mount drakkor rouge
1140 Macoley farm ??????
1270 Mage Lords Crypt ???????
1960 Arnagus the shipwright ?????????
2170 Khazari Ra-Khati House ?????????
3590 Zhentil Keep post 1368 ------- update 1 is the only map that links #6780 sewers under zhentil keep and #5470 zzhentil keep
3820 Azatl -------Update 1 is the only one that has links to #0460 deaths head bar and #0470 golotls house
3981 Dagger Falls update 1 is the only map that links #1280 Eagle Eyrie #1270 mage lords crypt # 0770 garrison headquarters
4080 Elmwood -----update 1 links #2730 under elmwood
4160 Eveningstar ---- update 1 completes links to #1240 the house of the morning and #1230 Tessaril Tower
4220 Helmsport -----update 1 adds links to #0430 drakosa estate and #0420 caxals palace
4330 Ixtul ----only possible option
4360 Kuo Meilan ---- only map that links #2310 palace of ultimate felicity
4430 Manass -----only possible option
4530 Michaca ------ link to #0530 the gilded kiva surroundings
4750 Raven's Bluff ------ adds 3 or more links jeremiah morning mist, jack mooney and sons, the lighthouse
4850 Shadowdale update 1 and 3 work minor link difference
4950 Suzail ---- update 1 is the only one that has #0160 thistleflame keep
4970 Tantras ---- update 1 is the only one that has #1350 temple of torm
4971 Tantras 3D ---- update 1 is the only one that has #1350 temple ot torm
5390 Waymoot -----only option
5390 Westgate ---- update 1 is the only one that has #6300 link
5450 Yulash ---- update 1 is the only one that has #5640 the temple of moander
5470 Zhentil Keep ---- update 1 is the only one that has working links
6600 Thri-keen Village below ground ----- update 3 is a broken map, update 1 works
30005 aru ----- update 3 is a broken map, update 1 works
30138 catacombs of moradask -----???????
B1cNWlc -----I was wrong on this one. Update 3 is better than 2. 2 links some more individual maps. 3 links to child maps, that include the maps links that update 2 had
B1dNElc -- ?????
Sembia chose this because the link to High Dale wasn't broken
The ones with ????? I will have to delve in deeper to figure out why I chose them. (I think some had the background image that I deleted on only one of the maps. Thus skewing my choice.)
All the rest I have tried to show a concise reason for my choice.
Seeing how many maps there are, I wonder how many hours to took to make these maps originally? I think it would take a lot longer now with the new symbols, tools, effects, etc.
If I remember correctly it took less than a year...
There was large group of volunteers corralled and managed by Linda Kekumu in January 1999. They did most of the tracing over FR maps scans. In May most maps where submitted and then there was a second stage of adding "unknown areas" essentially high level maps of the whole globe not covered by the regular FR products.
Then the whole thing went to ... (Ian ???) for an editing check.
The first update (which added quite a lot of maps) was done "before" Christmas 99
The atlas was out in September 99?
That's pretty amazing. So much work. 850 individual maps.
Waterdeep alone would have been a massive undertaking. Hard to fathom it considering how slow computers were back then.
Now I am curious as to what the Waterdeep map looked like
I'll show you part of it. On my computer screen it looks much more crowded than this partial jpg.
edit: I found my old folder on a backup drive of all of the maps updated.
edit 2: scale: 7665 x 10900 I guess that is in feet. Found the scale bar, it is in feet.
Oh, there are many many maps, not just the one.
The one shown by JimP above is the "main" map. But then you could zoom into each of the wards and get more detailed maps. And then there are a few areas where a "street level" area is detailed.
To give you a feeling of it all, I captured an animated GIF and placed it here:
https://imgur.com/a/vEIIhTJ
Latest work is just compiling everything into the actual FRAtlas program folder.
Had to allow permissions to overwrite all the files.
For some reason lots of the files could be dragged and dropped, but 3820 Azatl just would not overwrite.
Eventually I found a work around. Opened the file in CC3+. Then used save as. Went down to the FRAtlas file then the maps folder and saved over the original file. That fixed that map not being correct,
Next project is to go through all the links once again. I am hoping that all but a few of the original problem links are fixed.
With the exception of the 4 or 5 problem areas. Zhentil, Daggerdale etc etc.
@Don V Anderson Jr. Wrote
Eventually I found a work around. Opened the file in CC3+. Then used save as. Went down to the FRAtlas file then the maps folder and saved over the original file. That fixed that map not being correct,
Because of the way Windows works, this isn't doing what you want. Since Windows Vista, Windows have been using UAC to protect the contents of the program files folders from modifications. Programs shouldn't be writing to these areas. However, the FR Atlas is an old product from before that era. So to ensure compatibility for legacy software, Microsoft redirects the writes to files in here to the virtual store instead of blocking them (Which could have caused severe problems for an older program not understanding before being blocked). The file looks overwritten from the program that did it, thank to the virtual store, but thee file is NOT being overwritten, and other tools may still see the original file.
This is the old interactive atlas tat use to come on DVD/CD right? I think I use to own that..I wonder if it is in a box somewhere.
Yes. That's the one.