If I wasn't doing this for the Atlas and restricting myself to using the same things that everyone else has available then I would have created a new symbol set. It would have been less taxing on the RAM than having all these thousands of shaded polys in the map. Maybe by the time I've finished doing Sanctuary I will have enough time to consider doing an actual symbol set. I also need to consider that this map needs to be 'ready to go', when its finished, completely independently of whether the community art pack is available by then or not - so its just safer to do it this way for now
But they are already done? Even to make variable ones with different fill styles, you have the shades set up, so that's the hard part! Just copy them out of the map and finish them off as actual symbols when the time comes.
I'm not sure if that would be acceptable, since the fills I'm using are all CD3 fills.
When I'm done with Sanctuary I will see about re-creating the symbols with my own fills ;)
That way I can make each one completely unique, and introduce subtle imperfections. I can also shade them perfectly smooth, rather than in relatively crude steps. (I have to try and keep the number of polys down, so they only have about a third of the shaded polys they would need to look really smooth.
So far I have the following ideas stemming from this map - top down symbol set ideas:
Waterfalls
Different kinds of dome and spire
A range of small houses with types of roof not included in the House tool settings (Gambard, Mansard, Jerkinhead, Saltbox, Dutch Gable, Skillion and lean to...)
[EDIT: the small houses are no longer on the list - but the shaded poly versions in the map will of course be available in the map when its uploaded]
I also want to work on a tool that draws an aligned flat roof with an actual walls around the edge - any shape and number of sides you like (though I'm not sure its possible with absolutely NO idea of how to create a really complicated tool like that).
I'm not talking about setting up different fills and hatchings, or any of the stuff you can already adjust.
I'm talking about creating entirely new roof styles - like the shapes I listed above (Gambard, Mansard, Jerkinhead, Saltbox, Dutch Gable, Skillion and lean to...).
In addition to that, would it also be possible to make a House setting that draws an aligned fill flat roof on one sheet, and also an offset polygon 2 feet inside the first one on a specified sheet above it (which would need to automatically set itself up with a glow set to inner to give the impression of a low wall around the roof).
Posted By: LoopysueIs it possible to make your own House settings? … I'm talking about creating entirely new roof styles ...
No. The types of roof (hip and gable) built into CC3+ are backed by generative elements coded in the C language and compiled into the product. They are not by backed by data files or definitions that can be modified by the end user.
Posted By: LoopysueIn addition to that, would it also be possible to make a House setting that draws an aligned fill flat roof on one sheet, and also an offset polygon 2 feet inside the first one on a specified sheet above it (which would need to automatically set itself up with a glow set to inner to give the impression of a low wall around the roof).
I'm fairly certain that this one is a no as well. Again, the generative elements of the system are written in the C language and user interaction is limited to defining controlling geometry and adjusting a few parameters. It might be possible to write a piece of software that uses the scripting system in CC3+ to do the sort of thing that you ask, but that software would need to replicate the functionality of the existing house command.
When searching for papers on generative city systems, I recommend looking at papers by Pascal Mueller and Peter Wonka as good starting points.
Implementing a user-definable architectural grammar and generation system is a large undertaking (btw, "architectural grammar" is a fun search term and there are several books that are good reads along those lines). There are a number of systems out there that can do this sort of thing, but they tend to be pricey or require a lot of configuration to work. Again, works by Wonka and Mueller are good starting points for looking at these things from a theoretical perspective. A general scripting language for CC3+ like JavaScript or Python would be nice and would enable this sort of thing, but those would also require a large development effort. I don't expect to see a huge amount of development on those fronts for CC3+ any time soon.
I'm not very tech savvy. I can code in Java and C++, but its only in a sort of easy peasy "ABC" way. I got really high marks in practical, but the test were all to do with making games where the system was already really well developed and I only had to make a couple of new objects to make it do the things the test required (like introduce a user controlled net to catch random butterflies flying around an endless garden etc). As soon as you start talking about deeper things than that I'm totally lost, and about as much use as a wet paper bag ;)
I think I will do better to try drawing a few small symbol sets with all the usual frills ;)
Starting to use those gambrel rooftops now in central Rimtown. This particular development is based on the Georgian heart of Weymouth town centre. I know that's a little modern to be using it in a medieval fantasy setting (Georgian is 1713 - 1830), but I don't think it will harm the map too much. I need a shopping centre and somewhere to put the banks and lawyers anyway ;)
I've added a secondary TEXT sheet for the street names. You can change them, of course, but to me it just makes the city seem more real, and the map more authentic, if the streets have names.
The best technique seems to be just drawing it in separate polygons like you've squashed it flat like a bug, then turning them all into shaded polys using the Shaded Polygon (Angle by Edge) tool. Dogtag did a really excellent video tutorial on it a while back.
I've been playing with all kinds of different rooftops just lately, so you might see a few more of them later on when I move onto a different district.
This is the very simple roof style sheet I pinched from a Google search. Not keen on the butterfly roof, but apart from that I'll have a go at anything really :)
Scott - I'm guessing the angles with my shaded polys. I mess around with them till they look about right. The angles I used for those gambrel rooftops are 60 for the steep sections and 45 for the top. 45 is definitely too steep, but I like the shading at that angle. The shallower angles often seem a bit too bright for me. They seem to glare a lot paler than the actual texture and can sometimes bleach right out to white. I had to get rid of a few experimental round domes I made for that very reason. Maybe my global sun needs adjusting. I don't know.
Jim - with your expertise in Perspectives I'm sure it won't be that long before you have it taped ;)
Hey all. I am looking for advice...in particular from those of you that are comfortable doing cities and advising on building them. I was graciously gifted the responsibility, by our very own modern day DaVinci Sue, of completing Sanctuary as she has much on her plate right now getting her Patreon going (I am so looking forward to the assets she will be providing us!!!!) and other projects. You all know that I have repeatedly said I am not comfortable with cities, so I'm needing some help. I've working on completing a few of the districts that Sue had started and also have done a few of my own. Now, each district is a bit cultural in nature, but there are also buildings and areas that are very communal and civic, as well. So....where might I build a prison? Now, Sanctuary is a pretty peaceful city, with little crime, as everyone there is grateful for the "sanctuary" and safety it provides since it was settled when the lands were very wild with tribes and barbarians roaming the lands. However, crimes still happen. Within a district or perhaps just outside the city walls near the river?
I really appreciate you doing this, Lorelei. Like I said over at the FB Group page just now I wanted you to have this one when I realised I couldn't finish it myself, and I have every confidence that you will actually make a better job of it than I would have done.
It's been a very long time since I handed it over to you, so I can't remember where I was going to put these things. So it would be great if anyone else could throw in a few ideas here
The other thing is that you won't get any notifications when people have commented (which would be horribly inconvenient for you), so... and please don't take this the wrong way... I really don't mind if you want to start a new thread and add a link to it from the bottom of this one
Let this be our combined city!
PS - I think I just dumped those domes in the market place and forgot they were there
Comments
When I'm done with Sanctuary I will see about re-creating the symbols with my own fills ;)
That way I can make each one completely unique, and introduce subtle imperfections. I can also shade them perfectly smooth, rather than in relatively crude steps. (I have to try and keep the number of polys down, so they only have about a third of the shaded polys they would need to look really smooth.
So far I have the following ideas stemming from this map - top down symbol set ideas:
Waterfalls
Different kinds of dome and spire
A range of small houses with types of roof not included in the House tool settings (Gambard, Mansard, Jerkinhead, Saltbox, Dutch Gable, Skillion and lean to...)
[EDIT: the small houses are no longer on the list - but the shaded poly versions in the map will of course be available in the map when its uploaded]
I also want to work on a tool that draws an aligned flat roof with an actual walls around the edge - any shape and number of sides you like (though I'm not sure its possible with absolutely NO idea of how to create a really complicated tool like that).
Is it possible to make your own House settings?
I'm not talking about setting up different fills and hatchings, or any of the stuff you can already adjust.
I'm talking about creating entirely new roof styles - like the shapes I listed above (Gambard, Mansard, Jerkinhead, Saltbox, Dutch Gable, Skillion and lean to...).
In addition to that, would it also be possible to make a House setting that draws an aligned fill flat roof on one sheet, and also an offset polygon 2 feet inside the first one on a specified sheet above it (which would need to automatically set itself up with a glow set to inner to give the impression of a low wall around the roof).
When searching for papers on generative city systems, I recommend looking at papers by Pascal Mueller and Peter Wonka as good starting points.
Even though I feel a bit disappointed in the answer (I was kind of hoping to expand the range quite a lot), at least I know how it is now.
A general scripting language for CC3+ like JavaScript or Python would be nice and would enable this sort of thing, but those would also require a large development effort. I don't expect to see a huge amount of development on those fronts for CC3+ any time soon.
I'm not very tech savvy. I can code in Java and C++, but its only in a sort of easy peasy "ABC" way. I got really high marks in practical, but the test were all to do with making games where the system was already really well developed and I only had to make a couple of new objects to make it do the things the test required (like introduce a user controlled net to catch random butterflies flying around an endless garden etc). As soon as you start talking about deeper things than that I'm totally lost, and about as much use as a wet paper bag ;)
I think I will do better to try drawing a few small symbol sets with all the usual frills ;)
This is a mixture of standard House results mixed with my own Gambrel rooftops.
Still some way to go....
I also turned an old armoury into a library, and started experimenting with a new flat roof style.
I've added a secondary TEXT sheet for the street names. You can change them, of course, but to me it just makes the city seem more real, and the map more authentic, if the streets have names.
Oh you wicked, wicked person!
ROFL!
You can make any kind of roof.
The best technique seems to be just drawing it in separate polygons like you've squashed it flat like a bug, then turning them all into shaded polys using the Shaded Polygon (Angle by Edge) tool. Dogtag did a really excellent video tutorial on it a while back.
Its here:
forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=6404&page=1
I've been playing with all kinds of different rooftops just lately, so you might see a few more of them later on when I move onto a different district.
This is the very simple roof style sheet I pinched from a Google search. Not keen on the butterfly roof, but apart from that I'll have a go at anything really :)
Scott - I'm guessing the angles with my shaded polys. I mess around with them till they look about right. The angles I used for those gambrel rooftops are 60 for the steep sections and 45 for the top. 45 is definitely too steep, but I like the shading at that angle. The shallower angles often seem a bit too bright for me. They seem to glare a lot paler than the actual texture and can sometimes bleach right out to white. I had to get rid of a few experimental round domes I made for that very reason. Maybe my global sun needs adjusting. I don't know.
Jim - with your expertise in Perspectives I'm sure it won't be that long before you have it taped ;)
So....where might I build a prison? Now, Sanctuary is a pretty peaceful city, with little crime, as everyone there is grateful for the "sanctuary" and safety it provides since it was settled when the lands were very wild with tribes and barbarians roaming the lands. However, crimes still happen. Within a district or perhaps just outside the city walls near the river?
Also, cemeteries? In the city or out? Opinions?
Thank you so much
I really appreciate you doing this, Lorelei. Like I said over at the FB Group page just now I wanted you to have this one when I realised I couldn't finish it myself, and I have every confidence that you will actually make a better job of it than I would have done.
It's been a very long time since I handed it over to you, so I can't remember where I was going to put these things. So it would be great if anyone else could throw in a few ideas here
The other thing is that you won't get any notifications when people have commented (which would be horribly inconvenient for you), so... and please don't take this the wrong way... I really don't mind if you want to start a new thread and add a link to it from the bottom of this one
Let this be our combined city!
PS - I think I just dumped those domes in the market place and forgot they were there