Posted By: LoopysueRestricting the dungeon lighting to the centre of the map was a conscious decision
Sure, which is why I wouldn't expect a long shadow. But since the mesa is off center, I think my eyes are expecting something along that northern/northeastern edge. Again, this is just me. I don't personally recommend making any changes.
Sue, this is an amazing map. Such imagination, detail. Really cool. How much of this did you touch up (if any) outside of CC? (I'm just wondering how far I have to go!)
I started with a nice texture, and a basic goal (map an underground scene), and allowed my mind to wander...
On the technical side - this is a WYSIWYG map - rendered directly from CC3+ at 5000x5000 pi. All I did was reduce it to about 25% so that it was small enough to post, which isn't doing anything that I would call 'touching up'
How far you go with a map is up to you, since only you know when that map feels finished. This one is very very close to being finished, but I couldn't tell you why. I just know.
Here is a version with the housing lit from above.
I had already changed all the black glows to dark brown glows in the last WIP, but the housing on the lower level was also causing some strange fuzzy dark areas in its vicinity where it was affecting the relief sheet (which covers the entire map except where the mesa tops show, and is a sheet of solid black with an edge fade inner that sets the edge at 30% and the centre at 0%). I tried all kinds of fancy tricks, but in the end I discovered that all I needed to do was add a colour key set to black!
Now please don't ask my why it worked. It just did. I can see the difference between before and after when I'm looking at the map. It will be interesting to know if you can see it here compared to the previous version.
I had a play with street lighting on that distant mesa in the top left corner, but it looked all wrong, so I've given up on that idea.
Next up - the sea monster :P
EDIT: Oh, and I also tried some shadows on the main mesa, but that looked wrong as well. Maybe I just can't visualize it properly. I can see a lot of pictures finished in my head before I even start them, but this one has been one of those that just happened as I went along. I can't see the shadows.
Maybe its because I'm thinking of this all wrong, in that what you would normally see down a hole in the ground would be generally black and only the closest things would be visible. That means everything would be a shadow with strange highlights looming out of the gloom. To me this means the closest point to the centre on the edge of that main mesa would be brightest, but I can't presently think of a way of emphasising the brightness it already has without either bleaching out the detail, or making the rest of the map too dark to see.
I'm just playing now... while I take a break from trying to draw something a bit like a giant oarfish.... which isn't going so well... :sigh:
Even though the direction is wrong, I think I prefer the angled light on the rooftops. In my imagination there is light below in this world, so its not impossible that there's an unseen light source some way out to sea...
I'm thinking a boat would be better - or lots of little ones. This map is obviously pure flight of fancy, but its not quite fanciful enough for blatant mythical sea monsters.
Looks kind of like a very miniature version of the giant oar fish I was trying to draw... without much success.
You see, the problem is that when I used to draw before now I did it with pencil and paper, and I'm no good that way with a mouse and a screen. I also only have a very crude scanner, so it isn't really going to help if I draw the thing the way I would for an oil on canvas
I'm currently rendering out a set of skiffs - from a freebie skiff model I picked up at Cornucopia this morning.
Don't give up hope, though. There may yet be room for both these things
I've been keeping my album up to date over at the Guild, which as you know all the CLs can see into, as well as my friended friends. Bogie made a really nice comment on the one I thought was my final version. Trouble is, one of my other friends asked a bit of an awkward direct question about why I withdrew from the Challenge, so I can't ever really open it to public view, because once one person asks, they will all want to know the answer, and I'm really not ready to be put on the spot that way. I don't think I ever will be.
Sue: Just a thought, but have you tried tracing the image you're after, using an imported image and the mouse? I can understand you might struggle to free-hand draw using the mouse, and certainly (given I don't possess any real free-hand drawing talent) I find tracing easier than constructing an image from scratch. That way, I have a master of sorts, however crude sometimes, that can be tinkered with further.
This is partly why I suggested the olm as a model, as the only oarfish images I could find online seemed to be side-views (often quite flat, posed, and sometimes dead), whereas the olm is more often shown in a top-down, living, pose. Plus it's conveniently both white and eyeless! But please don't feel pressured - we'll be asking for Inferosians at work in the fields and travelling on the roads next ;D
Thanks for continuing to mull over the problem, but I've tried all the usual tricks to be able to do it. The main problem seems to be that my hands shake (I'm 50 and my motor control has been shot away by years of touch-typing and mouse clicking as I type and edit my way through other people's letters, reports and life stories). I can still draw stuff on paper with pencil, though.
I've worked out that its the friction - the drag of the pencil on the paper that's kind of... 'antialiasing' my hand tremor. I can draw a lovely smooth curve on paper with a pencil, but when I try the same with a mouse there just isn't the friction to stop the slight jolts and jerks from being incorporated into the line.
I was having a problem trying to render this earlier, but I've done it now
I decided that there's still a little work to be done on it before I really call it finished. Its nearly there, so the differences aren't that great. I've increased the lighting just a tad, and The tarmac around the drain is also paler. I've also completely re-worked my entire tree set to give them more weight and volume than before
Next time I'm going to have another look at the basic rock texture - see if I can't find a way to stop it flip-shading on me (when one moment its rounded bumps, and the next its rounded hollows), and do something about that really terrible rust texture I thought was so great when I first did it!
Hopefully.... this one should look a lot better. I finally figured out why the concrete chute down into the drain didn't look right - I hadn't angled the shaded polygons right!
I've also succeeded in creating a far better rust texture for the metal grate lip, and introduced a shadow that hopefully makes it look like its sunken into the pavement/road.
I've also just noticed that I've got some kind of strange transparency acne effect on the bevel of the grate lip, but since its meant to be rusty metal I think it improves the look by appearing as tiny dents in the outline.
The acne was being caused by black Glow effects, and some black objects. There's no black in the entire map any more. If you ever have similar problems, try changing any black glow to the darkest brown or grey. It looks just as good, and your acne clears up straight away. If only I could bottle and sell it!
EDIT: And I'm not rendering it all over again for that silly bridge. I clean forgot it with all the tree things going on in my life! I think it will become one of those things that I let people spot for themselves - the amazing floating roadway :P
Posted By: LoopysueI didn't mean to give you vertigo - sorry!
I meant it purely in a good way; but yes, it really gives me a feeling of looking down into the Underland!
Can't say I've had the dreaded Black Spot Acne effect as yet. There's still time... Have had a battle with river lines insisting on adding unwanted node connections from one end to some (random?) curve point along the stream this year, so you get an irritating river-coloured line straight across your map between the two, repeatedly on different rivers/streams, and appearing or vanishing as you zoom in or out, but that's a different thing entirely. Never cured it, but did manage to remove enough to eventually allow a "clean" printout, and saving the file for the use I wanted without any of them.
Posted By: LoopysueEDIT: And I'm not rendering it all over again for that silly bridge. I clean forgot it with all the tree things going on in my life! I think it will become one of those things that I let people spot for themselves - the amazing floating roadway :P
What? Never had any transparency acne problems? You really are the lucky one! I get it all the time. I think I use too many glow, blur and transparency effects in combination.
I'm ever so sorry to confess to this, but your little tale of the rivers had me giggling away. I used to have the same problem, until I worked out that it was only happening with smooth lines. I only ever draw rivers with straight lines or the freehand tool nowadays, and then convert them to curves only when I'm good and finished with them. Could this be the problem with yours?
As for the levitating lane - I've been thinking of calling it the Wyvern Bridge, in honour of the fact that you are the one who discovered it
Don't recall using many glow-blur-transparency effects in combination so far. Or maybe if so, I just didn't use black.
With the rivers, it's certainly possible it was because I was using smooth lines (can't actually recall now), if so though, probably just from the standard overland river drawing tool, with the colour and line thicknesses changed to get enough variety between the watercourses I needed. I only noticed it after I'd done the first test print, and it was very difficult to work out what was happening, as it would only appear on-screen at certain resolutions. Scrolling in and out with the mouse wheel, one ratchet roll more and it was gone again. I'd wondered if it was because there were so many streams (the map was based on an area in the English Lake District, repurposed to a fantasy RPG setting), far too many to redraw, though in the end, that might have been quicker...
Posted By: LoopysueAs for the levitating lane - I've been thinking of calling it the Wyvern Bridge, in honour of the fact that you are the one who discovered it
Comments
~Dogtag
I started with a nice texture, and a basic goal (map an underground scene), and allowed my mind to wander...
On the technical side - this is a WYSIWYG map - rendered directly from CC3+ at 5000x5000 pi. All I did was reduce it to about 25% so that it was small enough to post, which isn't doing anything that I would call 'touching up'
How far you go with a map is up to you, since only you know when that map feels finished. This one is very very close to being finished, but I couldn't tell you why. I just know.
I had already changed all the black glows to dark brown glows in the last WIP, but the housing on the lower level was also causing some strange fuzzy dark areas in its vicinity where it was affecting the relief sheet (which covers the entire map except where the mesa tops show, and is a sheet of solid black with an edge fade inner that sets the edge at 30% and the centre at 0%). I tried all kinds of fancy tricks, but in the end I discovered that all I needed to do was add a colour key set to black!
Now please don't ask my why it worked. It just did. I can see the difference between before and after when I'm looking at the map. It will be interesting to know if you can see it here compared to the previous version.
This is the old version:
[Image_6893]
And this is the new one:
[Image_6891]
Next up - the sea monster :P
EDIT: Oh, and I also tried some shadows on the main mesa, but that looked wrong as well. Maybe I just can't visualize it properly. I can see a lot of pictures finished in my head before I even start them, but this one has been one of those that just happened as I went along. I can't see the shadows.
Maybe its because I'm thinking of this all wrong, in that what you would normally see down a hole in the ground would be generally black and only the closest things would be visible. That means everything would be a shadow with strange highlights looming out of the gloom. To me this means the closest point to the centre on the edge of that main mesa would be brightest, but I can't presently think of a way of emphasising the brightness it already has without either bleaching out the detail, or making the rest of the map too dark to see.
Cheers,
~Dogtag
I'm just playing now... while I take a break from trying to draw something a bit like a giant oarfish.... which isn't going so well... :sigh:
Even though the direction is wrong, I think I prefer the angled light on the rooftops. In my imagination there is light below in this world, so its not impossible that there's an unseen light source some way out to sea...
Sorry to be boring!
No streetlights sounds good to me!
As for "mythical sea monsters", well, I'm not so sure. What about a much larger version of the olm (big ones grow to 16 inches/40 cm)?
(Olm Wikipedia page link)
You see, the problem is that when I used to draw before now I did it with pencil and paper, and I'm no good that way with a mouse and a screen. I also only have a very crude scanner, so it isn't really going to help if I draw the thing the way I would for an oil on canvas
I'm currently rendering out a set of skiffs - from a freebie skiff model I picked up at Cornucopia this morning.
Don't give up hope, though. There may yet be room for both these things
I've been keeping my album up to date over at the Guild, which as you know all the CLs can see into, as well as my friended friends. Bogie made a really nice comment on the one I thought was my final version. Trouble is, one of my other friends asked a bit of an awkward direct question about why I withdrew from the Challenge, so I can't ever really open it to public view, because once one person asks, they will all want to know the answer, and I'm really not ready to be put on the spot that way. I don't think I ever will be.
This is partly why I suggested the olm as a model, as the only oarfish images I could find online seemed to be side-views (often quite flat, posed, and sometimes dead), whereas the olm is more often shown in a top-down, living, pose. Plus it's conveniently both white and eyeless! But please don't feel pressured - we'll be asking for Inferosians at work in the fields and travelling on the roads next ;D
I've worked out that its the friction - the drag of the pencil on the paper that's kind of... 'antialiasing' my hand tremor. I can draw a lovely smooth curve on paper with a pencil, but when I try the same with a mouse there just isn't the friction to stop the slight jolts and jerks from being incorporated into the line.
I decided that there's still a little work to be done on it before I really call it finished. Its nearly there, so the differences aren't that great. I've increased the lighting just a tad, and The tarmac around the drain is also paler. I've also completely re-worked my entire tree set to give them more weight and volume than before
Next time I'm going to have another look at the basic rock texture - see if I can't find a way to stop it flip-shading on me (when one moment its rounded bumps, and the next its rounded hollows), and do something about that really terrible rust texture I thought was so great when I first did it!
I've also succeeded in creating a far better rust texture for the metal grate lip, and introduced a shadow that hopefully makes it look like its sunken into the pavement/road.
I've also just noticed that I've got some kind of strange transparency acne effect on the bevel of the grate lip, but since its meant to be rusty metal I think it improves the look by appearing as tiny dents in the outline.
Its time, now, to go back and revive all the other unfinished maps I've got lying around the place
Still missing the bridge structure to the little northeast sub-mesa, I think, though you can hardly see it now.
And you've cured your acne!
I didn't mean to give you vertigo - sorry!
The acne was being caused by black Glow effects, and some black objects. There's no black in the entire map any more. If you ever have similar problems, try changing any black glow to the darkest brown or grey. It looks just as good, and your acne clears up straight away. If only I could bottle and sell it!
EDIT: And I'm not rendering it all over again for that silly bridge. I clean forgot it with all the tree things going on in my life! I think it will become one of those things that I let people spot for themselves - the amazing floating roadway :P
Can't say I've had the dreaded Black Spot Acne effect as yet. There's still time... Have had a battle with river lines insisting on adding unwanted node connections from one end to some (random?) curve point along the stream this year, so you get an irritating river-coloured line straight across your map between the two, repeatedly on different rivers/streams, and appearing or vanishing as you zoom in or out, but that's a different thing entirely. Never cured it, but did manage to remove enough to eventually allow a "clean" printout, and saving the file for the use I wanted without any of them. As I said earlier in this topic - it's magic!
I'm ever so sorry to confess to this, but your little tale of the rivers had me giggling away. I used to have the same problem, until I worked out that it was only happening with smooth lines. I only ever draw rivers with straight lines or the freehand tool nowadays, and then convert them to curves only when I'm good and finished with them. Could this be the problem with yours?
As for the levitating lane - I've been thinking of calling it the Wyvern Bridge, in honour of the fact that you are the one who discovered it
With the rivers, it's certainly possible it was because I was using smooth lines (can't actually recall now), if so though, probably just from the standard overland river drawing tool, with the colour and line thicknesses changed to get enough variety between the watercourses I needed. I only noticed it after I'd done the first test print, and it was very difficult to work out what was happening, as it would only appear on-screen at certain resolutions. Scrolling in and out with the mouse wheel, one ratchet roll more and it was gone again. I'd wondered if it was because there were so many streams (the map was based on an area in the English Lake District, repurposed to a fantasy RPG setting), far too many to redraw, though in the end, that might have been quicker... >>Gasps<< Fame at last!