mapping the Valles Marineris on Mars ?

JimP

I have an oribital photo made by NASA. I want to combine hiking with a fictional set of hikes in this Martian valley.

Here is my problem, I know the length of the valley, 3000 miles, but I don't know how wide the thing is. I can get the png imported into the map template, but it looks distorted. So I'm evidently not getting the width correct.

I'll attach both the png and the map I'm trying to import without distortion into it. I have shrunk the png by 50%, its 1177 x 491 shrunk down to 589 x 246 to display it here.

I'm not going for super detail, but more like a 'basic look'.

Any help appreciated !

Dogtag

It appears that, "some parts of the canyon run as deep as 7 km (4 mi) and as wide as 200 km (125 mi)," according to one NASA web page. NASA also puts the length at about 4,000 km, which is around 2,500 mi., but even different NASA websites quote slightly different lengths.

A Google search on  Valles Marineris dimensions  yields a couple of different, but mostly similar, answers.

JimP

Yeah... probably still deciding on their part where it starts and ends.

I have been thinking about a 'block diagram' type map, which is what I meant by 'basic look'.

Probably don't need the photo to trace it, but just do the blocks...

Not like a program logic diagram, but [Joe's hostel] walk 25 miles northwest, you will find a campsite and a water source. With a small building for the hostel and a tent with blue spot next to it for the campsite and water source.

Why am I starting another project ? Road blocks in my imagination for the other projects.

Loopysue

If the problem is that you want to create a map base that is the same proportions as the image, you can get the proportions by right clicking the image file and picking "properties". One of the properties will be the size of the image as A x B pixels. That is the ratio of height to width that you will need to create your map to be able to paste the image into it without distorting it.

Hope that helps

Mappy

Have just done some ultrafast and unreliable maths, will probably be a disaster but try this:

Map length 3400 miles and Map height 1420 miles and insert that picture and see what happens!

JimP

I used the length I found on the Astronomy photo page for the x dimension and let CC3 adjust the y dimension.

I'll try your suggestion Mappy.

Edit:

Aha ! That looks much closer !

JimP

Okay, I used the photo as a guide to draw the canyon walls. I didn't go in for lots of detail.

Intermittent and water year around. A few hostels and shelters. One overlook. I'll put in some 'heights' later on, off to lunch.

Dogtag

I like the year-round and intermittent water indicators. Feels very much like a map you'd find at a tourist/hiking destination. All that's missing are a few trails/trail names, ha ha!

JimP

Yup, still a wip. I hesitated on using blue for water, as its the CA115 woodcut maps annual, but I didn't want confusion between the water and the trails.

I think an intermittant zone, and a small water, lake would be good at the low point.

JimP

I see this as a not very distant in time Mars. Some changes have happened in the local environment, but its still a harsh place low on oxygen and low on water. Maybe a Post-John Carter type Mars, where most of the ancient civilizations have died out due to a lack of atmosphere and liquid water. Or where Terraforming has started, but Mars has slowed it down by eruptions from Olympus Mons.

Loopysue

Its looking great Jim

I guess that if Olympus Mons erupts then part of the genesis project would have to be to re-melt the core of the planet and rejuvenate it?

JimP

A volcano throws out lots of sulphur and carbon dioxide. The sulphur becomes acid rain. So it would have a bad effect on any terraforming projects. No idea what the genesis project might be.

Loopysue

Genesis - er... probably a Star Trek influence going on there in the back of my mind - the Genesis pods that brought barren M(?) class worlds to life...

The experts reckon that Mars once had an atmosphere, but that when the core solidified (which happened faster than it will on Earth because Mars is smaller), the atmosphere was no longer protected from the solar rays by the magnetic field (which failed with the freezing of the core), and was eroded away by the solar rays.

I've probably made a completely laughable summary of what I remember seeing on all those documentaries in the days I actually had a TV (10 years without one now), but basically to terraform a planet with a frozen core it would be necessary to 'rejuvenate' the core to a molten state.

All this has got nothing to do with your map, of course, which is looking great It was just a side comment really.

JimP

Ah, okay. I know about Mars and its lack of an atmosphere. Some possible scenarios include a huge meteor side-swipe, and may actually be what made the Valles Marineris. The solar wind is believed to have torn away the Martian atmosphere due to the lack of a magnetic field which would have protected it, just like our magnetic field protects our atmosphere.

Thanks for the map comment.

Nacon4

Which is exactly what happens when you no longer have a molten core acting like a giant magnet giving Mars an "Aurora Mars" to deflect the solar winds.

JimP

Mostly final. Trail difficulty marked. This was done in CC3Plus, CA115, Woodcut maps.

Gathar

Hello Jim,

I'm not sure the addition of hill symbols really adds to this map. It had a kind of clarity, of purity, and I believe those symbols don't really fit the way you draw it.

JimP

I didn't feel like drawnig contour lines so I used the hill and mountain symbols.

Loopysue

LOL! what an honest answer

Unfortunately, I was going to say sort of the same thing as Gathar. I think the map is excellent, but its a top view map and the mountain symbols just look out of place.

pvernon

I also agree with Gather. The hill and mountain symbols just don't seem "right" for the map.

Dogtag

Jim, if I can make a small suggestion? You might want to consider putting the legend in a box with a background (even if it's the same as the map background, and then putting the box above the grid lines. It would make it a lot easier to read and to identify the different water lines.

Personally I like the map. I agree the hills seem out of place but I also view the map as something from a brochure so they don't affect my perception of the map as much as they might otherwise.

Cheers,
~Dogtag

JimP

Yup, a simple location drawing for hikers.

I typically put the text sheet so it draws after the grid sheet. I'll check on it.

Dogtag

It's not just that. I think you need a non-grid background behind the legend so it's easier to see the legend "symbols" for the different water routes. It'll make the legend as a whole more legible and user-friendly, something brochures and other tourist-aimed collateral aim for. Again, though, it's just a suggestion. Obviously the most important audience is you and your players.

JimP

Here we go.

Dogtag

Nice.

JimP

I'll be away from my computer until next week. Later.

Wyvern

Coming very late to the party here, so apologies for that, plus I see it's been over 2½ years since I last posted anything here, or indeed visited the Forum... Very remiss, but that's reality for you. At least I now have a (very) new computer which has finally loaded CA3, and even CC3+, so it's been back on the learning curve once more!

The size estimates for the Valles Marineris in various publication vary precisely because, as already commented above, it depends exactly what you're trying to measure and where from. It's really not helped as a couple of online images I came across showing outline sketches of North America and Europe superimposed on images of the Martian surface don't even show the same relative scaling of the canyon features.

However, and more for the guidance of anyone else who comes across this topic and who might be interested, than in regard to JimP's now-finished map, I did find an interesting geological article online from 2014, An ancient glacial system in Valles Marineris, Mars, in which Image 1, a drawing of the main canyon with the various probable glacial effects highlighted, like ice-flow directions, seems quite close to what was originally requested here - a basic map with a scale.

But of course, I came across a lot more than that in searching, as you do, and thought folks here might especially like to take a look at Eleanor Lutz's blog posting from February 2016 Here there be robots: A medieval map of Mars, which is exactly what it says, a hand-drawn, medieval mapping style version based on mapping data from NASA. Eleanor Lutz will happily sell you a copy of her map in various forms from a link on that blog, but if you just want to admire the artistry in greater detail as an inspiration for your own mapping in CC3/CC3+, I'd recommend the Daily Mail's webpage on the story, as one of the images there is a close-up of the Valles Marineris area. I was especially interested in her use of hatching to indicate steep slopes and to highlight some of the selected contour lines, as this makes the whole come alive a little more for me.

I do like Jim's map here too though, as it's very much in-keeping with other hiking trail maps you can find online these days.

JimP

The only problems I've had with hiking maps in real life is they have different meanings for 'easy' than I do.

JimP

Here is an updated hiking map of Valles Marineris. The stars, 9 of them, are for planned perspectives markers.

Loopysue

Oh - are you going to do a perspectives version of this map?

I can't wait to see it

JimP

Just the markers areas. Like historical type markers, but one will be 'Ad Astra !' which means 'To the Stars !'.