Small Outdoor Battlemat

Shessar

I needed a quick battlemat for this weeks game. Shadows are off a bit and I could have cleaned things up a bit more, but I was in a hurry. Meh....my players will be too involved in the ambush to worry about map discrepancies.

dagorhir

Very nice indeed. I'll use this as an inspiration for my current project. I really like how you did the cliffs.

khalestine

Very nice for a quick map! I agree, most players won't care too much about details as they'll be more worried about rolling dice

Dogtag

Personally, I don't think players would really pick up on some of the nitty-gritty. I frequent the forums and I think it looks great as it is! I also agree with dagorhir, I love how you did the cliffs, and the rocky river walls.

Thanks for sharing, and especially for sharing the FCW!
~Dogtag

Shessar

Thanks for the compliments. The cliffs are really easy to do and always add a bit of pizazz to a map.

Dkarr

Looks great. Thanks for sharing.

Denalor

Where do I need to put the downloaded map, so I can see it as it should be ???
I see the ill-famed red crosses even in something as basic as 'Water Sludge 5'

Monsen

Do you have DD3 installed? Most of the textures in this map is from there.

Shessar

This was created with DD3+ and does not work with DD3. If you need it in the older format I'll gladly fix it and post the FCW. Let me know if you want the fixed version. (Or you could just fix it yourself. It is probably only three fills that need replaced.)

Denalor

Ah, I see,
DD+
Don't trouble yourself.
If I use it I will simply take the png.
It is a beatiful map.
I like those rocks showing partially through the water, I think the technique was described elsewhere before.
I saw you used quite a lot of Edge Fade, Inner.
Unfortunately, I cannot see the actual settings. Must be the DD3 vs DD+ thing.
See, I am always interested in the application of the effects.
What I never achieve is shadows of a ramp, e.g. a way up those cliffs you have drawn, so the PCs can take the fight to the ambushers.
I suppose one could create quite afew sheets to include Wall Shadows with declining length, but I think there must be a better, easier way. One that eludes me comoletely, though.
Nyway, thanks a lot for sharing and allowing the option to retro your effects-usage

Denalor

So, well, I tried to imitate what you did there.
And I don't like it half as much and probably took 5 times as long.

I cannot really manage the 3D feeling.
The green is too strong on the attempt of the rise, I'm having a hard time to get the right colour for the transperancy effect.
Also, the attempt to show the river water churning around diverse rocks I find lacking...

Any suggestions of improvement highly appreciated

Shessar

Hi Denalor,

I'll try to help by giving a few tips. Let's start with the stream.

The wall shadow on the southern bank - Objects don't cast shadows on water, they cast reflections. The wall shadow makes the stream look like a solid surface. Try using a black glow around the rocks instead.

The Rocks in the stream - Water should cover the rocks partially. Use another sheet above the rocks with the water bitmap drawn slightly over the edges of the rock. Set an edge fade inner and transparency to make it look like the rock is slightly below the surface.

The rocks look like they have a white glow? They should not. If you are trying to imitate white water, remember that rocks act like a dam. There is a deeper pool before the rock and the water turbulence comes after the rock.

Denalor

Hiya,
thanks for the input.

Hmm, I picked the Wall Shadow to indicate that it was actually a rather deep ravine and not just a typical river bank at more or less the same niveau.
The reflection hint is a good one, though, the shadow is indeed too dark.
A Black Glow would imo 'clash' a bit with the White Edge of the river itself which is supposed to indicate flow speed and not shallow depth.
Edge Fade on partially submerged rocks is a very a good suggestion. Do note the water actually has a transparency, but the setting is obviously too high as the submerged rocks cannot really be seen. I tried that effect with another water polygon, but the edges were just too obvious, so I skipped on the partial submerged rocks.
Hmm, if water rushes with speed at a rock there should be some turbulance upstream, no ? The river flow is supposed to be from left to right. Seen that in the Temple of the Sea of Ralf, too. But the quick picture above is a clear proof

Thanks a lot for your comments.
Much obliged.

LadieStorm

Shessar, I would like to talk to you at length to see how you did some of these things! Your map looks a lot better than my attempt! Can you whisper me at some point? I would love to pick your brain a bit!

LadieStorm

Denalor, I did learn one thing that might help you... if you blur the edges near your river a bit.. where you put the background on top of your rocks.. that would help it look more realistic....

Shessar

No need to do this in whispers. Your questions may help others as well.

Ask away!

Oh, it may take me a day or two to get back to you at times because, life.

LadieStorm

Oh, life I understand! Okay, first question. It looks to me like you have 4 layers (3D) to your map. The main level, the two cliff levels, and the water level. Bow I'm assuming you started with the stream, then overlayed the rocks, the overlayed again with a fill the more land again... How did you set up the sheets to get that 3D layered effect?

Shessar

Actually, I use quite a few sheets. The stream itself uses four sheets as does the cliffs. Here is a screen capture of my sheets.

I begin by deleting all of the Template's Sheets and then add my own sheets as I build up the map. MAybe what I'll do is show and explain sheet by sheet what and why I do what I do. I'm considering doing this in a separate thread as a tutorial. Let me twirl this in my head for a bit to figure out the best way to explain it all.

LadieStorm

I think there are quite a few of us that would LOVE for you for do so!!! Can I get a show of hands?

*raises mine*

JimP

Shessar make wonderful maps, and fireplaces. Ahem, me too !

Shessar

Thanks for the compliment JimP. ::Blushes::

OK. I'll do tutorials for streams and cliffs. It will take me a couple of days to get all of the screen captures set up.

LadieStorm

One thing I'm hoping you will be willing to do, is explain how your sheet set ups work. Some of them are self explanatory, I admit, but symbols low? I'm trying to figure out what that sheet does.

Oh, on a side note... I did download some of your beautiful artwork! And one or two of them I believe would really work well here, but I have no clue how to import them into cc3+ and more importantly, I don't k is what to do with them once I import them! I mean, some of them are obviously terrain fills, a couple of them maybe bitmap background fills( the wood floors)? And a couple I'm not sure what to do with! Lol

Shessar

Posted By: LadieStormOne thing I'm hoping you will be willing to do, is explain how your sheet set ups work. Some of them are self explanatory, I admit, but symbols low? I'm trying to figure out what that sheet does.

Yes, I'll be explaining how each sheet is used. I use several different SYMBOL Sheets in my maps to define the length of shadow effects. SYMBOLS FLAT have no shadows, SYMBOLS LOW have short shadows, SYMBOLS have medium shadows, SYMBOLS HIGH have long shadows and SYMBOLS TREES have the longest shadows. This gives the illusion of differing heights in the map. Of course, I did not use all of those in this map.

Oh, on a side note... I did download some of your beautiful artwork! And one or two of them I believe would really work well here, but I have no clue how to import them into cc3+ and more importantly, I don't k is what to do with them once I import them! I mean, some of them are obviously terrain fills, a couple of them maybe bitmap background fills( the wood floors)? And a couple I'm not sure what to do with! Lol

These are all bitmap fills or symbols. Describing how to use them in CC is not easy and requires a book. I suggest that you start looking through the help files, the User Manual that came with the software, and when you have the opportunity to buy the Tome of Ultimate Mapping. You need to be comfortable un-hiding Windows system folders, and you need to learn how the software works beyond the predefined draw tools. The tutorials I'm doing for streams and cliffs should introduce some things that will help you along your way.

This is powerful software. ProFantasy has done a great job of making it useful to all skill levels of users but some things need more skills or experience to master. Keep your current enthusiasm going and you'll have it figured out in no time.

LadieStorm

And we're back to the great tome debate! Lol... I was wondering when my questions would invoke that response. Of course, the tome debate with my hubby continues...

LadieStorm

I do have one fairly quick question, I hope. When you are your sheets, do you add a sheet to both sides? I mean, I know you add a sheet for the sheets and effects, but there are two places where sheets are 'active'. Do you add your custom sheets to both sets?

Shessar

Hmmm.... I'm trying to interpret what you mean. There are Sheets and there are Layers. Is this what you are talking about? They are functionally very different. I do use both in setting up this particular map so it will be covered some. Though I'll confess that when making a map for myself that I don't intend to share here, I almost totally ignore Layers. Other than the ones needed for the operation of the software, I've found no great benefit in worrying about which layer something is on unless it is something I need to freeze to work around.

Or are you talking about the fact that the Sheets dialogue can be accessed from both the Status Bar and the Sheets and Effects Button? It is the same dialogue, just two ways to access it.

Heh. I'm not sure if I've answered your question.

LadieStorm

uhm... actually looking at the set up, I think I am talking about both the sheets, and the layers. That is probably why there is an S: and an L: It's the L: I was asking about..

Shessar

Sheets and Layers are used for different things, so to answer your original question: no, you won't add new items to both. The difference between them can be confusing. The best explanation I've seen of the difference comes directly from the CC3(+) help files.

· Sheets can be thought of as a stack of mini-drawings within the current drawing.
· Layers are a property of each entitiy. They could be thought of as an association or type.

· Each sheet can have a set of effects. Layers can't.

· Sheets are the floors of an office (1ST, 2ND, 3RD)
· Layers are the type of object on each floor (furniture, books, computers)

· Each sheet has a marker showing where it begins and where it ends.
· Entities on different layers can be scattered anywhere in the drawing.

· Sheets are drawn in order, and any entity added to an earlier sheet will be drawn before any entity drawn on a later sheet.
· Entities can be on any layer, independent of their position in a drawing.

· On the SYMBOLS sheets, you can have entities such as Forests on the VEGETATION later, mountains on the MOUNTAINS layer and towns on the STRUCTURES layer, all jumbled up in any order.

· You can hide both sheets and layers. Hiding sheets makes drawings much faster; hiding layers makes them a little faster. Only layers can be frozen.

· You can select all the entities throughout a drawing on particular layers using the standard selection method, because the layer is a property of an entitiy.

· You can't select by sheet excepy by hiding all the sheets you don't want to select, because sheets are not a property of entities.

LadieStorm

right, I understand that part... I think. I completely understand what the sheets do, and basically understand how they work. I liked the analogy the anatomy drawing with the transparencies showing the different 'layers' of the human body... with the base skeleton, then adding the different systems until you have a whole, complete person. I think if the sheets as the different transparencies that make up the whole.

It's the aspect of the layers in cc3+ that kind of confuses me... using the anatomy drawing as an example, I'm trying to figure out where the layers come in, how they work. I understand that for cc3+ the layers are categories... and that lakes, rivers, streams, oceans and seas belong in the 'water/rivers' layer(or category), cities, ruins and bridges would belong to the building/structures layer, trees, bushes and plants belong to vegetation, etc...

What I don't understand is how do the layers(categories) affect how cc3+ works? How do the layers affect how we draw our maps within the program? On top of that, the layers themselves can get confusing, because some things can belong to more than one layer, or category. Take oceans and seas for example: an ocean or a sea can belong to two separate layers - the coast/sea layer, and the water/river layer. Bridges could go under the stucture/building layer or the roads layer. Terrain fills could go under natural features, vegetation, or even backgrounds, depending on the type of terrain fill you are using. Then there are the symbols, that could usually reasonably go on several different layers depending on what symbols are being used.

So how do the layers matter? I mean, what would the difference be for putting my bridges on the structure/buildings layer as opposed to the roads layer? How do we use the layers in conjunction with the sheets? Or do we at all? Are my questions making any sense?

LadieStorm

Actually, I think these questions are better suited in a thread all their own... so let me repost these questions in the mapping with profantasy catagory...