Fractal terrain - series of black dotted horizontal lines?
I've noticed when generating worlds that I often end up with random-looking series of black dotted lines. Have not yet noticed any particular world settings that cause them to appear or disappear. Any ideas?
--David
--David
Comments
Possibility#2: You may need to check your video card to see if it is getting too hot - and may need replacing (likely NOT the problem - since that kind of error with a video card, should NOT cause these artifacts to be recorded onto an outputted / exported image - but it never hurts to check your card anyway).
Possibility#3: You may have insufficient RAM - boost to 2 Gig + (4 gig recommendation).
Possibility#4: The problem is operator error, or simply some kooky FT Pro / FT3 settings - you need to simply change some settings within FT Pro / FT3 (most likely scenario, I would think - Joe might have some suggestions along those lines).
Possibility#5: It's a minor bug / glitch that you can resolve by downloading the latest patch for your version of Fractal Terrains from your product registration page.
Possibility#6: Your using a computer with a processor that is overheating, older, or that is on the verge of failing / needing replacing (unlikely - but still a non-zero possibility).
These are all viable possibilities that I'm suggesting - but I would advise you - that your very best recourse is to wait for a thread response from Joe Slayton - FT Programmer...
The little gnome that runs my memory told me that those "features" will sometimes go away if you refresh the display. Using Tools>>Actions>>Normalize Data will do a refresh that shouldn't change the world data (if it does change world data it would be fixing some bad things like infinities or NaNs in the data).
Laptop is 1920x1080 and desktop is 2560x1600. And both have dual monitors at that resolution--didn't specifically test, but didn't notice a difference between which of the dual monitors I used.
I'm running Fractal Terrain version 3.0.12.
I did notice it wasn't happening 100% of the time--on the laptop just now, regen'ing a new world about 1/3 of the time it would look OK, 1/3 of the time I'd get a black speckled effect and 1/3 of the time the dotted horizontal lines.
--David
#1, Check your computers - both the Desktop and Laptop - and see if possibly you might be running a third party application or program in BOTH computers that may be conflicting or screwing around with FT Pro / FT3.
#2, Check your security apps (Antivirus and Anti-Malware) to see if they are properly updated. You may also run a security scan for infections.
#3, Make sure that your hard drive has been properly defragmented.
#4, Check and see if a non-essential / non-system critical 3rd party background application, process, or service might be running that could be interfering with Fractal Terrains on both computers. You can do this by hitting "Ctrl + Alt + Delete" on your keyboard very quickly and smoothly - which should call up your Windows "Task Manager" - from there you can observe everything that is currently running on your computer.
If you are unsure about whether or not an application, process, or service should or should not be running - or if you are unsure if whether or not the specific application, process, or service is actually part of your Windows OS - and not a third party proprietary or self contained app - THEN DON'T MESS WITH IT - just leave it running.
I suspect that you might have an app or background process that could be running that is conflicting with FT, or draining / weeding system resources from FT that you may have installed on BOTH computers.
If you don't know your way around Windows - then don't mess with anything, but if you have purchased or downloaded an app that runs in the background (for example - runs an "update scheduler" or "update service" - or that simply idles until you open it - then - if it is NOT a part of WINDOWS - you might consider ending the task / disabling the background process associated with it through Task Manager). Do these things only if you are completely knowledgeable in Windows - and if you choose to switch a background app, process, or service off - THEN YOU ARE DOING SO COMPLETELY AT YOUR OWN RISK!!! - Again - if you are unsure / not confident about changing anything - then leave it alone...
Also David - if you are listening to music (Oggs / Wavs / or MP3s) through a media player, watching videos on YouTube in a smaller window, or surfing the web while running FT Pro / FT3, then you might consider discontinuing your multi-tasking activities while working with Fractal Terrains to save on system resources, and to discourage any possible conflicts as well.
All in all - make sure, as Mr. Slayton suggested - that you submit a bug report to Profantasy. Include such info as:
#1, Version of Windows OS that you are using (example: Windows XP, Windows Vista, Windows 7, Windows 8, Windows Power NT).
#2, Model Number and brand name of Computer (example: COMPAQ PRESARIO Desktop Model NX03SRB1, Windows SURFACE Laptop / tablet combo, etc.).
#3, Processor type and size in GHtz (example: i7, AMD ATHLON 4.0 GHtz, etc.).
#3, Amount and type of RAM memory modules (chips) - (example: 2 Gig RAM / DDR2 type, 4 Gig RAM / DDR3 type, 12 Gig RAM / 32 pin SDRAMM DIMM, 6.0 Gig RAM / DDR3 @ 665 MHTz, etc.).
#4, Size and Resolution of Monitor (example: Hewlett Packard HPW2072a / 1600x900@60 Htz).
#5, Size and type of Hard Drive (example: 931 GB, 7200 RPM Western Digital SATA HDD).
#6, Age of computer / how long have you owned it / when did the warrantee expire?.
#7, Complete description of bug effects / type of program malfunction associated with said bug including when it occurs / causes / triggers.
On my desktop right now...
>>#1, Check your computers - Desktop and Laptop modules - and see if possibly you might be running a third party application or program in BOTH computers that may be conflicting or screwing around with FT Pro / FT3.
There's a few common applications which I turned off without any apparent change. The only thing I didn't turn off is Stardock Fences which is a desktop organizer.
>>#2, Check your security apps (Antivirus and Anti-Malware) to see if they are properly updated. You may also run a security scan for infections.
Using Eset in both cases. Made sure it was ignoring the FT folder and then turned it off for testing. Not change.
>>#3, Make sure that your hard drive has been properly defragmented.
SSD's in both cases.
>>#4, Check and see if a non-essential / non-system critical 3rd party background application, process, or service might be running that could be interfering with Fractal Terrains on both computers. You can do this by hitting "Ctrl + Alt + Delete" on your keyboard very quickly and smoothly - which should call up your Windows "Task Manager" - from there you can observe everything that is currently running on your computer.
Turned of a bunch of stuff for testing without any change. Haven't tried safe-mode though.
>> I suspect that you might have an app or background process that could be running that is conflicting with FT, or draining / weeding system resources from FT.
Doesn't feel like it right now. (I've been in IT/programming since the early 80's so don't mind tinkering with this a little.)
The desktop hasn't exhibited the speckling observed on the laptop, but the horizontal dotted lines is very consistent--almost always appear on the initial display of a world whether generated or calling up a saved one. What is also consistent is clicking Apply on the World Settings will almost always cause the dotted lines to disappear (other than one random world that refused to clean up.) Feels a little like something is slightly different between the initial generation/display of a world and a subsequent regen/repaint.
--David
Horizontal dashed lines were still appearing. Applying the World Settings would eventually clear them up, but it would take 4 or 5 tries (whereas non-safemode only took a single Apply.)
I may reinstall FT3 and patch later just for grins...
--David
Joe Slayton might chime in later if he has any additional footnotes or ideas - since we're getting more trial and error info going on here.
--David
Actually I've never used any thread settings in the preferences higher than default. The only other setting on threading that I was aware of was the "1" option under the "default" option. Never really saw any need at all to mess with it anyway - let alone to jack it up to a higher setting. Hmmm.
Maybe it's something going on with your specific APU / GPU / Chip set? I don't know (never had an i7 before) - but if keeping it (FT3) set to default threading solves the issue - then I would think that that's your best, more immediate probable solution. You could even try selecting a higher thread setting - but not maxxing it all the way up to 11?
I personally have never had any need to change that specific setting at all. Below I have also given my CPU specs. Apparantly FT3 is telling me that other than default - the maximum number of rendering threads that I can use is "1". My APU is a dual core with "2" threads. My CPU is not supported for hyperthreading.
My laptop is an i7-2760QM with 4 cores and 8 threads. The preferences will allow me to set it up to 7 threads. At default setting, initial painting looks good (other than the speckling which I haven't worked yet), if I choose 1 thru 7 threads, then I get the horizontal dotted lines on the initial display of the world.
The desktop is an i7-3930K with 6 cores and 12 threads--presumably why it allows setting up to 11 threads.
I didn't see any documentation on what specifically the rendering threading does--although I'm familiar with unix and window threading models and kind of guessed. :)
The laptop doesn't appear to show as much of a performance boost with the max threads, but its display resolution is substantially lower than the desktop.
I HAVE noticed in both cases, that the display clears in anticipation of painting the new/refreshed world and I THINK I see what will be the dotted lines or speckling as lighter marks on the dark blue display. After painting, the light dotted lines / speckling appear as black, I THINK.
I don't know the architecture of the program, so -maybe- the memory to be used for display isn't completely/properly initialized on the initial world gen/display when additional threading is used, but is properly cleared for a subsequent regen/repaint of the same world? Just a WAG.
--David
--David
Yes, it is related to the number of threads. The long-winded technical detail is that FT performs its onscreen computation using a dithered pattern to fill in the display, meaning that FT computes non-adjacent pixels as it goes (that accounts for the speckled appearance as it displays). This pattern allows for getting a feel for the larger display very quickly and then filling in the rest of the display as things go along, This activity was useful for the early P4 systems that could take many seconds to render the display; it may be neutral or even a slight performance detriment on modern systems. FT further calculates the display in two passes: one for the basic data and one for lighting. In order to speed up all of these computations, the screen elements are broken into work groups and assigned to as many rendering threads as are specified in the preferences. What is going wrong is that some work groups can get assigned to shading before computation is fully complete or won't have finished shading before new computation starts (basically, it's a bad thread fence implementation). This sync issue will happen semi-randomly, which is why the speckled lines aren't always in the same place.
The number of threads used to render work groups is specified in the preferences. The number of threads is one less than the number of threads that Windows states are available for the machine. If your machine has a maximum of two threads, you can never have more than one thread active for rendering; a single thread can't get out of sync with itself, meaning that the problem won't appear. The export computation code is single-threaded, meaning that the visual artifacts won't appear in exports.
Honestly I never had a reason to screw around with the thread settings. My computer compared to dmjung's rigs is like comparing a "Go-Cart" to an Audi Rs7, so naturally "available threads for rendering" is a moot issue as far as I'm concerned for my own machine really, lol.
Somebody should probably make this forum thread a sticky - since the advent of multicore machines will undoubtably bring this issue again to the fore front for a lot of 64 bit users out there who need to be reminded to patch their older copies of FT PRO / FT3.
GO TO YOUR REGISTRATION PAGES - DOWNLOAD THE LATEST FT PRO / FT3 UPDATE - AND PATCH'EM PEOPLE!!!! Lol
Personally - my advise to users out there would be to just leave the default preference settings alone - as I really don't see any point to changing them (although other folks might - for whatever reasons besides just getting a faster render time). I have no real personal life - so I can afford to sit around sipping coffee all day while I wait for my map to render out - unlike those other folks that have jobs, and girlfriends, and actual - real life responsibilities, and all of that other weird complicated junk, lol.
Let me know if there's anything you want me to do/try.
Curious--it is behaving a little different though. As I zoom in, some of the dotted lines appear to be at a "fixed" position rather than moving/zooming with the world. And yes, my monitor is clean.
I'll see what happens with my desktop after a clean reinstall.
--David
I ended up with about three sets of duplicate worlds among my 20+ initial sets although I'm pretty sure I was always saving a different world. Will see if I can duplicate what happened or if I was distracted...probably the latter.
--David