Is CC3 right for my project?

Oberst Hajj

I am wondering if CC3 is right for a series of projects I will be working on. I need to create historical and historical plausible maps. I have two main questions:

1. I need to be able to print these maps large, upto 4x8 feet. Can CC3 handle or produce the required resolution to print something that large and still look as good as it does on the screen?

1a. If it can print at that size, would I have to draw the map in 1 to 1 scale, or can the program upscale the final map to the required output size?

2. Out of the box, or with a current plugin/mod, can CC3 produce a style similar to these:
















Thank you for your time and help,

Keith

Henrie61

I have no idea about the printing questions, maybe someone alse can answer them.

Can CC3 produce a map in the slyle you want? Problably yes.
But as far as I know the style isn't available out of the box.

And remember. CC3 can produce great maps, but like any tool it also requires patience and practice.

If you want to go through with this I suggest you make smaller maps first before starting a project like this.

Ralf

Printing directly to 4' by 8' from CC3/CD3 will most likely be problematic, especially at a good printing resolution. At 150 dpi (minimum for printing) that would be 7200x14400 pixel. I sometimes do 10,000 by 10,000 pixel exports, but these take a long time, and will probably be problematic with a effect-heavy CD3 map. You might have better luck printing to pdf from CC3, or do it in multiple sections.

The style of your sample map is very nice (where is it from?).

Take a look at a CD3 map in this pdf.

Or one done by Pär Lindström (forum name Clercon):
http://forum.profantasy.com/extensions/InlineImages/image.php?AttachmentID=1742

Terraformer_Author

OR - you can divide your map into 1 foot by 1 foot sections - and then print out each 1 x 1 section to reassemble into a 4 x 8 map. I use to be into model railroading (HO Scale) - and so 4 x 8 is pretty standard to me - since my layouts were always that size - and I didn't want to settle for a little dinky 4 X 6 loop or a one way shelf layout.

You can laminate the map sections (each section) onto divided wood or MDF board sections - or just glue them to posterboard, foamcore, or card board 1 x 1 sections - that way the map is divided into stackable sections for ease of storage and increased longevity. personally - I would have them professionally laminated to 3/8 thick wood plaque boarding (ash or cedar).

There are actually portable model railroad layouts that store and assemble that way. It's also a pretty common method of building battle tables for folks who are into the WARHAMMER / WARHAMMER 40K fantasy / sci fi tactical wargames using physical models and miniatures.

If it's meant to be one big wall or table map on a single surface - then it's ok because the basic principle is still the same. I am operating on the assumption that you are wanting this map for strategic / tactical table top wargaming.

If you were to recreate this map in CC3 so that you were creating 1 x 1 maps that are INDIVIDUAL MAPS that are designed to fit together ultimately like puzzle pieces - then resolution shouldn't be that big of a deal (I wouldn't think) - it would only be iffy - resolution wise - if you were attempting to design one big "lump sum" 4 x 8 map to print and plop down. From what I know, CC3 can do extremly detailed and clean maps at a resolution sufficient for 1 x 1 maps. Just make 32, 1 x 1 maps that are designed to fit together - like Ralf initially suggested / implied.:

Terraformer_Author

This is how your map would be arranged if it is "built" from 32 smaller 1 x 1 maps:

Terraformer_Author

If you made certain map panels a little larger - you can create co-ord keys:

Simon Rogers

The only problem with the tiled approach is that some effects spread across borders, so you might want to add some overlap to the tiles

Oberst Hajj

Thanks everyone, this gives me some things to think about. The final print has to go on a roll of outdoor sign vinyl, so as some point it will have to end up as a single image. I have PhotoShop and can use it, so maybe doing smaller sections in CC3 and them merging them together in PS is the way to go. Do you think CC3 could handle 2x2 foot sections? The fewer the sections, the less problems merging them all back together.

Doing this would require that I could export the files into a format that would allow me to maintain the high pringting resolution. What formats can CC3 output to and at what resolutions?

The images I posted in the first post are high res scans of watercolor paintings. The artist scanned them into his computer and is building a map that way. I want to do something similar, but thought CC3 might be a better way to go. The PDF that Ralf linked to looks pretty good, is that a standard style? I do like the Jon Roberts Cities style that is displayed on the home page quite a bit. I noticed that you could get that style as one of the subscriptions. Maybe that might be a way to go.

I did play around with CC about 7-8 years ago, but have no idea if it's easier to use and create maps with these days. I do recall there being a lot of trial and error to learn to setup the maps right.

JimP

bmp, png, and jpg. AutoCAD DWG and AutoCAD DXF files. Due to the lossy behaviour of jpg, I suggest the other formats.

I think CC3 is much easier to use.

Monsen

Posted By: Oberst HajjDo you think CC3 could handle 2x2 foot sections?

That depends on the resolution you need. At 300 dpi, 2' should come to 24" * 300 = 7200 pixels square, which should be doable.

Posted By: Oberst HajjWhat formats can CC3 output to and at what resolutions?

bmp, png and jpg. Resolutions are memory bound (and CC3 is a 32-bit program, so it can only utilize 2GB of memory), so the dimensions Ralf mentioned (10000 x 10000) is at the limit of what you can do (and a very detailed and/or effects-heavy map will be less than that)

Posted By: Oberst HajjThe PDF that Ralf linked to looks pretty good, is that a standard style?

It is one of the standard city styles from the City Designer 3 add-on.

Posted By: Oberst Hajjbut have no idea if it's easier to use and create maps with these days

Many enhancements make it a lot easier to use than CC2, but it is still based on the same CAD engine (although a newer version), so the way of doing things are basically the same. IMHO it is way easier to use than for example Photoshop, which is one of the few computer programs I find really difficult to use. (Not that CC3 and Photoshop are really comparable, because they work in completely different ways)

Oberst Hajj

More good info guys, thank you. So CC3 is a 32-bit system, any issues with it running on Win7 64-bit (sorry if this out of context with the thread title, if yes, I'll go search for the details on it).

The DXF and DWG formats are interesting as they can be imported into Adobe Illustrator. But PNG should work just as well.


A couple more questions if that is okay...

Looking at this more, what I'd really be doing is making one large city map with CD3, with just lots of "rural" area on the map. Is that about right?

If file sizes start to become an issue (not expecting many effects, just a global lighting/shadow I think), is it possible to create the background part of the map (ground and trees) as one map, and then create all of the towns/cities (houses, train tracks, roads) on a separate map with out a background or a transparent one (via PNG)? If that can be done, I could easily add the town/city map onto the background map in PS or AI. For that matter, each town/city could be done separately and added in that way.

Monsen

Posted By: Oberst HajjMore good info guys, thank you. So CC3 is a 32-bit system, any issues with it running on Win7 64-bit (sorry if this out of context with the thread title, if yes, I'll go search for the details on it).

Some people have reported problems, but I guess that happens with any software program under any configurations. For the people I know about running it on win 7 64-bit, it runs perfectly.

Posted By: Oberst HajjThe DXF and DWG formats are interesting as they can be imported into Adobe Illustrator. But PNG should work just as well.

Note that the DXF/DWG format exports does not support all the features in the map, so they are not a good export format at all for a finished map. They are more of a special-case use.

Posted By: Oberst HajjLooking at this more, what I'd really be doing is making one large city map with CD3, with just lots of "rural" area on the map. Is that about right?

I would say so. You should be able to make the map without CD3, but from the example maps you posted, if you are aiming to make something similar to them, then you will benefit from the house tool in CD3.

Posted By: Oberst HajjIf file sizes start to become an issue (not expecting many effects, just a global lighting/shadow I think), is it possible to create the background part of the map (ground and trees) as one map, and then create all of the towns/cities (houses, train tracks, roads) on a separate map with out a background or a transparent one (via PNG)? If that can be done, I could easily add the town/city map onto the background map in PS or AI. For that matter, each town/city could be done separately and added in that way.

Technically, that should work. Note that CC3 doesn't add transparency to it's png export, but as long as you use a color not present in the map as a background color, and do a non-antialiased export, it is easy to turn that color transparent. No need to worry about that though, file sizes are almost never a problem in CC3, unless you go crazy with the fractalization tool (Which I don't think will be needed for this map, that is more of a coastline thing). If you need to however, both layers and sheets can be hidden in a map before export, allowing you to hide and show map elements at will. You may wish to try such tricks if your map gets to complex for the export size you desire however.

Oberst Hajj

Thanks for that. The 2nd map I have planes to work on is most likely going to have larger coastlines. No problem on the missing transparency, as you say, it's easy to remove the background color if planed for.

Last questions ( I think, lol). Can CD3 be used as a standalone product, or does it require CC3 first? I think it does, just want to make sure.

Thanks again everyone for all the help. It appears that this is a strong community of users... always a plus!

Clercon

You do need CC3 to use CD3. CD3 is just an addon.

Oberst Hajj

Thank you, ordering them now!

Monsen

One final word of advice - do take your time to work through the manual, don't leap straight into your project. The manual teaches you the skills you need to work with CC3, regardless of map types. There is also an updated version of the manual available on your registration page, you should grab that one instead of using the one that came with the installation.