Creating Battlefield maps

seldon

I am trying to make some battlefield maps ( for battle reports, scenarios and such )...

I have CC3, but I'm guessing it would be good to expand it with either CD3 or DD3 ... which one is best for this task ?

thanks
Francisco

Monsen

Perhaps the 2009 annual would be helpful? It contains two separate issues that might be helpful:
Military Units
Napoleonic Battles

Or the 2011 annual, which contain the Military Operations issue.

seldon

Wow.. that is really great !!! Particularly the Napoleonic Battles !!!!

Thanks !!! ... and between CD and DD , do you recommend either one ?

Francisco

Monsen

For those kinds of maps... I would say CD3, because you can use it to draw small villages on your battlefield. On the other hand, if you are planning on creating miniature battle maps for some of those locations, then DD3 would be more helpful. Really depends on what you wish to do.

seldon

Thanks.. I haven't used CC in at least 8 years.. so I'm very rusty ... plus I was always more of an occasional user, only as needed.. but here is my first pass at getting the map for our upcoming battle of Quatre Bras... I still need to choose what to get next if the Annual 9 or the CD3 ( based on your recommendations )...

I had forgotten how great this software is




The battle will be played with 15mm minis, on a table 8x5 ( the area in the inner box )
Francisco

Sven

I'm using straight CC3 with customized icons & formats. For example here is the map for the Battle of Cropredy from the just released "Blackpowder Pike & Shotte" rules from Warlord games. I also recommend that you pick up the other Profantasy products because the whole process becomes addictive, LOL! I started out with the original CC just wanting some easier maps than my beat up old hand drawn ones in my RPG campaign. Now I'm so addicted I'm getting commissions.

seldon

So you did that one as a commission for the warlord pike and shotte expansion for BP ? ... pretty cool.. ok.. give me pointers... what do you use for the ridge lines ? What do you use for those enclosed fields ? ...

I know I should get other products but cannot get all at once.. do you have recommendations on which ones are of more use ? I was leaning towards Monsen's recos about getting the 09 annual and/or CD3 ...

I love your map...

cheers..

Francisco

Sven

Posted By: seldonSo you did that one as a commission for the warlord pike and shotte expansion for BP ? ... pretty cool.. ok.. give me pointers... what do you use for the ridge lines ? What do you use for those enclosed fields ? ...

I know I should get other products but cannot get all at once.. do you have recommendations on which ones are of more use ? I was leaning towards Monsen's recos about getting the 09 annual and/or CD3 ...

I love your map...

cheers..

Francisco

First of all: Thank you for your kind appreciation of my mapwork. This was part of a commission of eight maps for the publication.

As to the contour lines - I use a line & then vari-colored symbol along - usually 2 passes of that first a short set of hashes, then a second pass where the hash mark is longer but the interval is twice that of the first pass.

For the fields (& similarly the river & roads in this case) I make extensive use of transparent bitmap fills & transparent effects (the edges) plus edge fades.

For me I discovered my early work for Baccus 6mm & GHQ was too detailed & fussy. Keeping things clean & simple works best. So rather than detailed fields showing individual rows of crops as I did for the Antietam map I went with shaded areas & enough symbols to suggest what an area is in later maps

Also it is a worthwhile investment to purchase the back issues of the Annuals & keep up with them. They will teach you a lot of techniques & effects plus give you lots of tools & textures to work with. Additionally you will be able to find inspiration to develop your own style(s). AS to what products you need besides this - much of that depends on what you intend to do. If you don't want to do dungeon maps then you don't need CD3 but I find I use elements from there with some map projects so I need it but I don't need to create pictures of characters so I never purchased character designer. That sort of logic is what you need to apply to your choices & the annual helps expose you to other packages that may surprise you.

You can see lots more examples on my webpages: http://sites.google.com/site/vikingjarl/

I hope that helps, good luck making maps!
Skol,
Sven

seldon

very nice.. I'll need to look at what you say for the ridge lines... I'm not sure I follow how it is done.. I'll try to figure it out...

thanks
Francisco

Sven

Posted By: seldonvery nice.. I'll need to look at what you say for the ridge lines... I'm not sure I follow how it is done.. I'll try to figure it out...

thanks
Francisco

Sorry to have to keep going back into the post & add things, but I'm dealing with a very slow connection since I live in a very rural area (I even have bears & mountain lions passing through my yard) so to prevent crashing that's what I have to do.

As to the ridge lines - look under DRAW - then SYMBOLS ALONG... - then browse & choose CA_13 RIDGE.FSC, then select CA13 vc (vc is for vari-colored). Under that you have various settings for how it radiates out (I usually choose the one that looks like a spikey wheel) & settings that select weight, length, & intervals. Play with it a bit. Using various effects you can transparent (I usually do about 50%) blur & soften the sheet they are on so they are less intense and the focus is more on the units.

Skol,
Sven

seldon

Ok, I was trying to figure out how to use that.. haven't used symbols along so far.. but now I think I get how to .. however it seems I don't have that symbol..is that from an expansion ?

Thanks
Francisco

Sven

The military unit symbols I designed myself as Vari-colour. I've got a few sets - a general one that is the basic box with the appropriate symbol on it based form international standards (another for US standard icons) & the level marker that goes on the front is separate so that I can layout the blocks & quickly mark them up from squad level all the way up to Corp & Army. I also have specialized ones for various publishers - such as a set I did up for the ECW book from Baccus 6mm, another set for GHQ's WW2 stuff, another for their Naval, etc. I'm also slowly building icons for flags of various factions & periods. It would be good practice to design your own vari-colour symbols to fit your needs as it's a simple icon and teaches you about how to create symbols. Please note how all the basic symbols are the same Infantry, Cavalry, Artillery. I then have a symbol for the level such as XXX for Corp, etc.

Sven

Here's is an example of my basic modern Unit catalog (with a bit of my twisted humor tossed in as well). It also shows you each of the various levels of command symbols. BTW - I may have created them as a joke, but I found out later that in some of the classified documents that not only is there an official military icon for protesters & politicians, but there is also an official one for Zombies too, LOL.

seldon

Actually I was aiming at the CA_13 RIDGE.FSC element you mentioned which I simply cannot find to try to get nice ridge lines...

Those two charts of symbols are insane !!! ... they look spectacular... !!! My sincere admiration !

cheers
Francisco

Sven

I've used the CA_13RIDGES.FSC element for so many years that I'm no longer sure where it came from. Perhaps it was part of an early annual. If you asked tech-support perhaps they can send it to you.

Thank you for the compliment on my work - both of the artwork & the research I did for them. Please let me re-assure you that my sanity was up to scratch when I created them, LOL. The Austrian TOE is part of a set of Napoleonic Warfare Rules that I'm writing for GHQ. There are TOE's for each of the major combatants of the period, which you can see on my website (mentioned above). The research is fairly straight forward when you have the source materials. I've been a wargamer since 1958 so my library of sources is extensive enough to be daunting to move. In the book there will also be illustrated examples in a similar style.

The Military Symbol Catalog was just something I put together for me to quickly reference what symbol to use when drawing maps for various WW2 & modern projects and commissions. I was a bit punchy at the time from creating all the symbols so I created a few more just for humor. The important thing to notice is that the icons in the left column actually consist of two symbols: the appropriate unit symbol (Infantry, Cavalry, etc) & the Command Level Symbol (Squad, Battalion, etc). The background color is put on a vari-color sheet and the black outline & notation is on a fixed sheet. That makes for a smaller & tighter Symbol Catalog & thus easier to find the right symbol!

I hope that helps guide you & encourages you in making your own symbols.

Skol,
Sven

Ralf

Posted By: SvenI've used the CA_13RIDGES.FSC element for so many years that I'm no longer sure where it came from. Perhaps it was part of an early annual. If you asked tech-support perhaps they can send it to you.
Sven

The name of the catalog is a clue: CA13_ refer to the thirteenth annual issue, that's January 2008 - the Pete Fenlon overland style. If you own that Annual, you'll find the catalog in CC3/Symbols/Maps/Pete Fenlon/.

seldon

Ok... so I was thinking about getting 2009 annual due to the napoleonic maps.. but these ridge lines are on 13... is there any way to find out if there is something similar on 9 ? it seems silly to get the whole 13 annual just to use that element... Isn't there anything similar on the basic sets or something else.. the basic ridges on the CC3 seem not to work very well most of the time, or at least I cannot get them to work... I couldn't find any reference on how to tweak the parameters so that they would look reasonable or even similar to those more typical ridge lines seen on maps...

I went and got CD3 and indeed it has been useful, but again nothing I can use for ridge lines...

any help ?

thanks
Francisco

Monsen

Well, you can always simply draw a similar ridge line symbol yourself. As you can see in Sven's map, that symbol is no more than a simple straight line basically. The effect comes from using Symbols Along to place it along the contour. The CC3 manual explains how to create new symbols and symbol catalogs.

Sven

Actually, Monsen, the hash lines are tapered at both ends. But a straight line would mostly work. However there are a great many treasures in the Annuals & you would only cheat yourself by not getting them. I highly recommend getting the current & back issues of the Annuals. They have certainly improved my skills.

Skol,
Sven

Monsen

@Sven: I absolutely agree. But if you are short on cash, buying a complete annual set to get what is basically a line seems a bit wasteful. But on the other hand, if one can afford it, I'll easily recommend people to get it all.

Jeff B

Sven,
Your style would make a very good annual addition.

Sven

@akbdeck: Thank you, but depending on the publisher, the setting, & other factors I vary things up - especially the background. Thus, I'm not sure I have a true style that would fit within the Profantasy Annual format. Plus as I learn new things from the annuals I incorporate the concepts. But I really do feel complimented.

@Monsen: I understand completely - almost 10 years ago a series of attempts were made on my life - I had a knife stuck through my left eye, & 12 herniated disks, & severe migraines as a result - plus my savings accounts were looted by the perps & I'm an old bastard - & all of that put me on the permanent disabled list. So I live on a very limited military disability income from my injuries 4 decades ago. I understand being perpetually short on cash to even have enough to eat, but at least for me I find the annuals worth it. As an investment it at least keeps me in miniatures for gaming, LOL. So for me it's more than just the line, its the learning & why I consider Profantasy one of the best products of any type that you can find on the market.

may your mapping open up new vistas for you,
Sven

seldon

Ok.. the advice on creating my own symbol was great.. I appreciated.. It takes some trial and error but it is certainly doable even for a newbie like me...

I probably will get at least one annual to start with, but I need to go step by step... the expense can go up quickly and it competes with the minis that have to fight in the battlefields depicted on the maps

Here is the map I am doing for our scenario dealing with d'Erlon's initial attack during waterloo



PS. Sven, that is quite a story !!! You've certainly given good use to these tools...

cheers
Francisco