Support for Metric Templates, Now!

Greebo

Ok, before I start my rant, I must admit I had quite a hard day at the Federal Archive dealing with the legacies of Nazi Archeologists, so please do not take my side remarks to serious.


Sitting in my hotel room, I just wanted to create a few battle maps for our next Shadowrun session. But once again I failed due to my incompetence at converting imperial templates into metric maps. Yes, the bigger part of the RPG market still uses imperial units, blablabla, yadayadayada. I heard that - or similar - line(s) way to often. I do not have anything against imperial templates, they are just of no use for me. But what about the non-US, non-British users? Don't we count? Are we to few?
Whenever I try to convert imperial into metric templates, something ends awfully off (symbol size, fill style resolution, canvas size of the map...).
And I currently don't have the time to work all these issues out or even create my own drawing style. I seldom find the time for mapping, as it is.


So, why is there no metric version of the Cosmographer Deckplan Bitmap template? Why are there no metric versions of the annuals, particullarly of CA07 Caves, CA21 Battles Maps and CA52 Modern Road Maps ? When will the Art Upgrade for SS3 be puplished (rough estimation would suffice, something like: a) soon b) someday later c) never )? And, even more important for my decision as a potential buyer and someone who owns all Profantasy products so far: Will it include metric versions of ALL templates? Will future annuals include metric versions of ALL templates?


That whole issue is starting to annoy me.

Ralf

Generally speaking we try to include metric version of at least the most important styles/templates. On the other hand we also try to keep the number of templates down a bit, so that the number available in the new map wizard doesn't become overwhelming. Very often, you can simply use the imperial template and simply re-label the scaling in the end. E.g. for a battle map, do a 3' or 6' grid and call it a 1m or 2m grid respectively. Perhaps doing this has become a bit too second-nature to me, sometimes leaving out metric versions, where they would be convenient for users.

Having said that, there should be a metric version of the CA53 Modern Road Atlas among your templates. I see it, when I choose New Map > Other (the second entry).

Not having a metric version of the Cosmographer Bitmap Deckplan template is an unfortunate oversight, which I will correct shortly.

And finally, sorry, I can't give any estimates on a new SS3 version.

Ralf

Attached is a metric version of the Cosmographer Deckplan Bitmap template. Just unzip over your CC3 program folder, then start a new map, map type "Cosmographer", Decide settings yourself", drawing style "Cosmographer Deckplan Bitmap Metric".

Greebo

Thank you very much for the Cosmo Template. Don't know, why I overlooked the CA53 metric template. But its existence makes me miss the CA07 and CA21 metric templates even more.

Using imperial templates is quite cumbersome for me since I have to convert every distance drawn. I.e. i have problems deciding wether the rooms I just made, the objects I have placed etc. have the proper dimensions and stuff. For someone who normally just has to look at a map or floorplan once to able to navigate the city district or building, this is quite a hinderance.


Regarding the New Map Wizard I can understand (and otherwise support) that you do not want to clutter it too much. But how about using some sort of check box option for choosing mapping units? Thereby you could strike of templates from the list that only differ in unit.

AndyStaples

Why not try this:

Use an imperial template. Unfreeze all layers and sheets. Select scale, choose All, scale origin 0,0, scale 1.609. Your miles are now kilometres.

At smaller scale, 1 foot is 0.305 metres.

Even with my near-OCD love of precision, I can't think of any need to go beyond three decimal places.

Now you have a metric map. Save it as a template, open a map based on that template and start your metric map.

For added refinement you may wish to adjust the default symbol size of your new template (do NOT do this for scale bars - if you adjust the default symbol size, remember to manually override scale bars to 1.0 before you insert them).

To adjust the default symbol size, go to File>Drawing Properties, check the default symbol size box and type in the same scaling adjustment you used before.

If there's already a default symbol size, you don't need to dig the calculator out - just type *1.609 (or *0.305 for feet -> metres) after the existing default size. CC3 will do the calculation for you.

Greebo

I already tried this (see above). The problem is less in symbols but more in bitmap fills.

Additionally it is becoming a matter of principle. Why do I have to put significantly more time and effort into a map, just because I live in a country that adopted ISU / metric a long time ago and mainly play RPGs that never used anything else than metric units for reference (e.g. Shadowrun)?

AndyStaples

I won't argue with another person's principles.

I live in a fully metric country, but grew up in one that was officially metric but stuck with (and sticks with) many imperial measurements through sheer bloody-mindedness (yes, the UK - you try and take our pint of beer away!).

In some personal use and in fantasy gaming I prefer imperial measurements (RuneQuest, Fantasy Hero, forgo those kilos and metres - too clinical).

In other personal use, in science and in science fiction games I much prefer metric measures (oh, GURPS Traveller, why oh why must you stick to these outmoded, cumbersome measurements in the 57th century).

Yes, the conversions can be clunky at times. I just accept conversion time as part of my map-making time. That goes for character generation software as well. I know I'm an oddity when it comes to weights and measures.

I tend to invest a great deal of time in my maps, partly because I like lots of detail and partly because I do a lot of experimenting. So in comparison to the time I spend on a map, converting metric/imperial is not usually significant to me.

(And the *1.609/*0.305 method should work for scaling the bitmap fills as well - but yes, that will take time).

Greebo

I don't really want to argue or to take someone his imperial templates away. It's just that I feel more or less forced to use them due to the lack of metric ones. And every time I have to use an imperial template, I loose quite lot of my precious mapping time. Working at a State Museum, teaching at the university and having three kids, I do not have much of it. But to keep our campaigns up and running (which we play mostly via Skype and MapTools these days), I must prepare those maps anyway.


As to units used in play, I must admit that in fantasy ISU / metric units have a sort of clinical feel to them. I have played "Das Schwarze Auge" for over a decade, which uses Schritt (1m) and Meilen (1km) everywhere on the game world. That stroke me as odd even when I started to play 20+ years ago.
In my game fantasy game world units mean something slightly different every other territory and some regions use completely different systems, for which reason I reference those units to the metric system.

And for SF, we mainly play Shadowrun, so no problem regarding mapping units there since FASA already decided on using "proper" units.


And regarding the pint of beer, some German pubs serve beer in historical units (Seidl, Maß etc.) but give the ISU volume in brackets. Ok, the fact that historical German units meant something slightly different every other territory / principality, may have furthered that.

Ciel

Decided to post here rather than open a new thread cause I have a question pertaining to a specific post in this thread.

I just downloaded Cos3 to try out, and I would prefer to use meters also, not because I live somewhere that uses them (I'm in the US), but because I'm envisioning this sci-fi story that will go with these maps as using the metric system, in-universe as well as for the materials, and would like to keep some consistency. Looking through this thread, I saw the link Ralf provided to a metric version of the Deckplan Bitmap template, which is appreciated.

However, I don't quite get how to use the files provided. The post said to unzip that archive "over" the CC3 program folder... I tried unzipping it so that the files went into the CC3 folder (which was in the "ProFantasy" folder, which was in turn in Program Files), and I also tried putting it directly in CC3 > Templates > Cosmographer > Wizard, since that's where the other templates of this type seemed to be. Neither caused the Metric Deckplan Bitmap to show up in the program.

Help?

EDIT: Never mind... LOL Not sure WHAT happened the first time, I extracted the folder to the "Wizards" folder, but for some reason it only extracted the text file, not the rest. When I discovered this, I extracted the whole thing properly, and now the Metric Bitmap Deckplan is indeed showing up within the program. Thanks again for providing it Ralf, and sorry for the now-pointless post.

AlexChristo

Hi,

i use the metric Cosmographer Deckplan Bitmap. Now, i have a problem. When i use the tool "Deck chrome" there are squares, but they a to big. Is it possible, do change the setting, that the squares are 1,5 m?

Bye
Axel