Choosing symbols

bblackmoor

Is there a more convenient way to select symbol libraries? At the moment, I click the (for example) Structures icon. It shows I have three libraries: CC3 filled, CC3 B, and CC3 C. I actually have many more than that, from the annuals and Symbol Library 1. To see these, I have to click "Advanced", and then change "Master filter" to an asterisk (*). Sometimes, at this point, it asks if I want to save settings. I don't know why, as it doesn't always ask, and when it does ask, nothing seems to change whether I say yes or no.

I have to do this every single time I select a symbol library. Having to go through that whole rigamarole every time can't be the right way to pick a symbol library. What am I doing wrong?

Thanks.

JimP

Well, you could do something several of us came up with.

I went through the symbol catalogs, and created my own. So I have a symbol catalog for villages, one for cities, particular nations, etc.

As for the symbol selection... If you have overland selected, you click on vegetation, the vegetation symbols for overland should popup. There are different overland styles, but once you select a particular one, B&W, drawing, filled, etc. the other 'quick load' links for that particular symbol style should continue without excessive searches.

I don't remember when this started, having to keep looking for the symbols I wanted instead of the short cut icons in CC3 going right to them, but it I think it started sometime this year. It might be template realted, hmm. I just tried it on my own overland templates i created several years ago, and it works correctly.

Any ideas folks ?

Monsen

You can create your own master filters.

Right click the "Symbol Style Toggle" button, and select "Master filter settings". Increase the available filters, then add the desired master filters, like "*". When this is selected, it will use this master filter for all catalogs, until a new one is loaded (typically happens when you load a new map or use the "Symbol Style Toggle" button.

bblackmoor

This helps, but it leads to even more questions. The Master Filters dialog confuses me completely. If I right-click the Symbol Style Toggle button, I see a list of nine symbol types, and a command for the settings:

Filled
Line
Mono
Fantasy Color
Fantasy Mono
Handdrawn Hollow
Handdrawn Color
Handdrawn Varicolor
CC3 Overland Symbols
Master Filter Settings

When click Master Filter Settings... , I do not see nine filters. I see three:

CC2 Handdrawn Color
CC2 Handdrawn Hollow
CC2 Handdrawn Varifilled

These aren't even listed on the Symbol Style Toggle list. Um... what the...? And why is it listing CC2 symbol libraries?

So let's say I add a fourth filter, "All symbols". Adding that as an entry is easy enough: I just type it in. But how do I actually add the symbol filter I want (*)? All I see is the place for the name of the filter. I do not see a box for the filter itself. And when I say "OK" to that dialogue and go back to the map, and then right-click the Symbol Style Toggle, I do not see the "All Symbols" filter listed. Um... what the...?

The more I am learning, the less I understand this.

Monsen

The list you get when you right-click the button is hardcoded into the menu files, and not dynamically updated as you create more filters. To switch to a custom filter, just select "Master filter settings", and use the radio buttons to set the appropriate filter active before clicking ok.

As for the dialog, it is the filter itself your are supposed to type into the box, NOT a descriptive name.

The master filters you see available depends on the map template you are using. If you only have CC2 entries, it normally means that you are currently using a template intended for the old vector symbols (All the old symbols originally created for CC2 still carry that name). You can load another set of master filters by clicking the "Load" button in the dialog, and you can save any custom setting you make as well.

bblackmoor

I was using templates created (I assume) for CC3: first, Fantasy Overland, and then Annual Parchment. So it doesn't make sense that there would be only CC2 entries in that list.

If clicking the "Structures" button is actually more work than just opening a dialog and finding the symbol file manually, then that button (and the Mountain button,and the Vegetation button, etc.) serves no purpose.

The same thing goes for the Symbol Style Toggle button. I don't understand how or why setting a new Master Filter doesn't add that filter to the list of filters. What's the point of adding a new filter to the list if it doesn't add a new filter to the list? You can't edit the list, and new filters you create do not show up in the list... why is the Master Filter Settings... option even there?

It should not be this hard to:

1) Edit the filter list (once)
2) Select a filter (once)
3) Choose a symbol library (structures, vegetation, etc.)

Am I missing something? Or are you guys just used to this?

Monsen

Even templates created for CC3 can use old style vector symbols (like the annual Parchment, the symbols used there originated in Symbol Set 1 for CC2). Symbol libraries from previous versions has kept their old name. So having a list containing lots of filters containing "CC2" is quite normal, especially since most V3 products hasn't introduced new vector symbols, they use the old vector symbols from their CC2 counterparts, but with added raster symbols (and new functionality). So a map style only relying on vector styles would be fine with only CC2 filters in the list.

To make the catalog buttons show all the appropriate catalog, regardless of style (a master filter of *), then all you need to do is the following simple steps
1. Right click symbol style toggle, select "master filter settings"
2. Increase the number of filters to use by one so you have space for your new filter
3. Add a single asterisk (*) in the text box, and to activate the filter, click in the radio button for this filter to make it active
4. Optionally, save your new filter configuration if you want your new master filter to persist across sessions
5. Click ok. Now the catalog buttons uses a master filter of * for the rest of the session (Starting a new map, loading an old map or switching menus using the add-on buttons will reset this, therefor you might want to save your master filter configuration. Check the map note named "OnLoadMacro" for any map to see which master filter set it loads at startup [The SYMICONFLOAD line]. If you edit this master filter list and save it, your new filter will always be available for all maps using this style, although it will not be the selected one by default)

Note that when you make your own master filter settings, IGNORE the menu you get when you right-click the symbol style toggle button. Always select "Master filter settings", and select your filter by using the radio buttons. If you wish to edit the list that pops up when right-clicking the button, you can edit the *.mnu files (fcw32.mnu for overland menus) found in the CC3 installation directory.

bblackmoor

I followed your instructions, and selecting symbols is still a huge nuisance. I am going through a series of multiple steps just to select a symbol library, every time I select a symbol library.

I have spent several days on this, and I am going back to my other software. No drawing or mapping program should be this difficult to use, much less just selecting symbols. I may come back to CC3 later and try again. It does have some useful features, such as inserting randomized symbols, and varicolor symbols.

I do appreciate the time and trouble you have taken to answer my questions. Thanks.

JimP

I have noticed an increase in difficulty in selecting and getting the symbols to stay there in the selection part to the left of the map area.

It used to happen occasionally, but now it happens every map, everytime I change from structures to vegetation, or coast symbols to traps, etc. The start symbol sets don't seem to matter. When I load a template, any template, it pre-loads a symbol set for that add-on. Seems to be the same one. I have to work at it to change it away from that symbol set. ( For dungeons it is the CC2/SS2 wood tables/furniture set.)

The two buttons 'symbol catalog settings' and 'symbol style toggle' worked very well up until something this year. Then it just started failing to load a symbol set I wanted.

The list is Cosmo3, one of the Annual symbols sets (nothing shows in the wndow, you have to click on it to fnid out which one it has selected into the list), and CC2 sets. This is in the 'symbol catalog settings'. The toggle changes what is shown, but it always starts the same, as I listed.