What is going on with DD tools not working in a CD map?

Can someone explain what is going on with Dungeon (DD) tools not working in a City (CD) map?

I recently got CC, CD, and DD. I'm trying to make a small test city with a Inn whose basement has a secret entrance into a ancient dungeon. I do this by:
* creating a city map
* making a small town layout
* using the floorplan button to make a floor plan
* selecting the target house
* selecting DD3 Bitmap Floorplan with 2 above ground floors and 1 below
* in the basement level of the floor plan I'd like to add a DD cavern so I hit the Dungeon Menu button in file toolbar

At this point if I hit the cave button I get an error message "CC2: No matching draw tool..."
I can select the DD cave by going through All Drawing Tools -> style: Dungeon DD3 and getting what want and that works.

I assume this is related: This gets even worse if for some reason I try to add a DD cave to an overland map. I get the same error, but this time if I go through the All Drawing Tools menu the cave is available but none of the textures are there.

the default tool buttons aren't loading in some cases. In other cases both the default drawing tools aren't loading and textures I'm expecting to be available aren't.

There's two things I'm not understanding here. First, why aren't these tools loading like I expect? Am I expecting something I shouldn't? Second, Is there a different process I should be using to add my little cavern extension to the basement?

Comments

  • After a bit of testing, I've found that the default Cave settings are included in that particular template. There is a very easy work-around, however, that will allow you to use the cave tools. Simply right click any of the other tools (the water tool for example), select the "Advanced" button, then in the drop down menu labeled "Style" select "Dungeon DD3 Color" and select the cave style of your choice. Once this is done, all of the cave styles are automatically added to that map, and can be used as normal.
  • In addition to what Latharion said, you might also have to generate a new "blank" dungeon in the style you want and save it as an FCW file to get those bitmap fill styles into your city drawing. Once you've created the dungeon FCW map file, open up your city FCW map file, select Draw -> Insert File, select the dungeon FCW file and click the Open File button. Place the file anywhere in the map with a click. Then go to to Edit -> Undo to remove the drawing you just inserted. All the bitmap fill styles and symbol fill styles from the dungeon style map will now be in your city map.
  • Thank you that does work. I can use all the tools I expect to.

    Can someone explain what's going on with this or point me to the right help topic? I'm curious about what's going on behind the scenes. Obviously you can load tools and textures but I haven't seen any info on that? I can see that being useful in the future.
  • The problem with the drawing tools is related to the way templates are configured. Templates are set up so that drawing tools related to that particular template are included (along with textures and symbols). From what I can tell, this was for the sake of keeping things clean and simple. Some people like it and some people do not (I prefer having access to all of the tools in one map, but that's just me). Sometimes though, a tool or series of tools do get missed when the developers are setting up the templates, and it seems that this is one of those times. Profantasy is made up of only a few (extremely dedicated) people, so the work gets done when it can, and sometimes they have to prioritize what problems MUST be done before less demanding problems. The good news is that for the most part, the lesser bugs have easy work-arounds (as was the case with this instance). Also, we have access to a wealth of knowledge and experience in this collection of skilled cartographers that frequent this board (some call it one of the benefits of being a CC3 user!) Feel free to continue to ask questions. We're a friendly, helpful group!
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    Posted By: LatharionI prefer having access to all of the tools in one map, but that's just me
    While it sounds like a decent idea initially, it quickly gets confusing and difficult to navigate. Right now, there are 6311 drawing tools in my CC3 install, many of which that would not even make sense in other maps than the ones they were designed for. I also have over 600 fill styles and over 11000 symbols (raster, vector not counted).

    However, this is where CC3's power and flexibility comes into play. You can design your own drawing style, which contain exactly the set of drawing tools you want, and you can design your own template which contains the fill style and drawing style you want. You can also design your own symbol catalogs containing whatever symbols you want, no matter from where they originated.
  • Ah, Got it. That makes sense.

    The manual walks you through building a Symbol Catalog. But I haven't seen how to build a drawing style. Is that documented somewhere?
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    Posted By: rreayBut I haven't seen how to build a drawing style. Is that documented somewhere?
    Annual 1 (2007), December Issue.

    The quick and dirty of it is to make a new subdirectory inside #System\Drawtools
    Copy any two .dto file from another subdirectory into this one.
    Then create a new map, and from the map properties, choose this style. You can now create new drawing tools via the "All drawing tools" button. Once you havae created two of your own, you can delete the two you copied in. Copying in two drawing tools is just to force the dialog to show instead of a "now drawing tools" message, or selecting the single drawing tool there by default
  • Yeah, having every single drawing tool available all at once in every template would be a navigation nightmare. It's easy enough to pull up any drawing tools you need from other templates once you know how. And if you find yourself using one or more drawing tools from another template in another template style, there are ways to add those into the template permanently.
  • I come from the old school CC2 days of having all those nifty tools & trinkets available all the time. Of course I also am more used to the vector style drawings and symbols. No matter how we use it, it's a great testament to CC3 that it can be used and customized in so many different ways!

    Monsen, I will have to say that with 6300 drawing styles, that can get a bit over the top. I have a few hundred (that I know of...), and a pretty good collection of vector and raster symbols. So yeah, I can see your point. I do like being able to quickly add styles to the map though (which also helps when a style SHOULD have been included and was, for whatever reason, omitted). That was a very nice forthought on Profantasy's part.

    rreay, Another alternative place that has a wealth of information regarding drawing styles and their creation is the Tome of Ultimate Mapping. While it was written for CC2, the information is still valid for CC3, and contains a nice walkthrough for creating or altering a drawing style.
  • Thanks very much guys. I've got what I needed working and learned a lot about the SW. You've all been crazy helpful and I appreciate it.
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