Why is the default Fenlon scale so different to the original maps?

Pete Fenlon's original ICE/MERP maps that the CC style is based on was 20 miles to the inch or 25.4 mm.

The size of map elements on these maps, like towns and cities, are only 2 or 3 mm across.

The default map in CC wants to be 920 by 720 map units/miles, and the scalebar defaults to 100 miles, and the symbols are scaled to be five times larger than they appear on the original maps.

I can just change the scalebar to read 20 miles instead of 100 and the proportions then look right, but I then lose the distance tool.

I've read the scale matters article which helps explain some of the counterintuitive behaviour of CC, ie increasing the size of the map in map units makes symbols bigger rather than smaller, so I sort of understand how everything works - although it seems like veering away too much from the defaults is quite fiddly. I've also noticed that if I specify a smaller map unit setting when starting a new map in that style (and also one or two others) roads always end up being way too wide.

I'm not complaining about the way scaling is handled in CC, that's just a design decision - but it surprises me that a style like Fenlon which has many pre-existing maps, wasn't set up so that the default scale gives you maps as close to the originals as possible.

(it's obviously doable as there's a great example of what I'd like to do here - I just don't know how to do it)


  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 46 images Cartographer
    edited October 21

    If you only want smaller symbols, that is quite easy. After starting a new map, just hit Drawing Properties and change the default symbol scale to whatever you want. If you want 5 times smaller, just set it to 0.2.

    Note that this just changes the default scale, not the current one, so either save, close and reopen the map as this will open it with the new defaults, or simply click a symbol, and with the symbol on your cursor click in side the map area to bring up the symbol parameters dialog and hit "set normal" and the current setting should be changed to the default.

    All tools that place symbols should observe that default setting.

  • I think I might have to report this, but with this style there is terrain - ridge and terrain ridge vc. Presumably the vc means variable color. However, it is not set up as variable color. It just does the same brownish orange as the original tool.

  • NZgunnerNZgunner Traveler

    Thanks for this, it was closing and reopening the map after scaling that was tripping me up - roads and the scale bar didn't seem to be resizing.

    The classic Fenlon maps are 22" by 17", and at 20 miles to the inch that's 440 by 340 miles which is close enough to be half the size of the default template. So if I set the map to be 460 by 360, I can then set the symbol scale to 0.4, which means the default scale bar can be set to 40 miles (40 instead of 50 because there are 4 divisions in the scale, so 10 is better than 12.5) and it works nicely with map units 😀.

    I've created one extra symbol, a beacon, and I'll have a close look at the old maps to see if there are some other symbols to set up as well.

  • hi this prompted me to print of thumbnails of my catalogs of fenlon symbols.

    though for some reason i've not investigated. some have just come out as outlines, instead of what the symbol really looks like.

    but hopefully it's still interesting.

    there also seem to be some node issues, i've never noticed

  • i've figured out the outline issue. it was the fill style.

    on the symbols showing as an outline, the fill stlye was 600 (solid), for some reason. on the other symbols it was 1 (solid).

    i just had to replace 600 (solid) with 1 (solid)

  • Can we get a catalogue of these for our own use, to add to the ones already in the style?

  • NZgunnerNZgunner Traveler

    I was going to ask the same.

    whit2468 has put so much work into this, extending the style by 5 or 6 times more than the original content, that I think it would be worthy of inclusion in an annual - assuming Pete Fenlon doesn't mind!!

  • RalfRalf Administrator, ProFantasy 🖼️ 18 images Mapmaker

    I've fixed the drawing tool. The attached version should be proper varicolor. Simply extract the zip file into your CC3+ program data folder under System/Drawtools/Annual Fenlon Revisited. The full setup also now includes this fixed tool.

  • The zipped file appears to be empty, @Ralf

  • you can find the catalogues here.

    you just need to ignore the drawing tools, attached to some symbols, they wont work.

    i'll delete them from the catalogs shortly

    cc symbols

  • RalfRalf Administrator, ProFantasy 🖼️ 18 images Mapmaker

    Oops, thank you. Not sure what happened there. :D

  • Incidentally, I discovered while investigating this issue (albeit somewhat after the fact), that one of the three sample maps in the Annual folder for the Pete Fenlon Revisited style is blank, the CA179_SilverMountains.FCW one. This may have been updated by a later version, as mine is from November 1st, 2021, but thought it might be worth mentioning in case it still hasn't been amended. It obviously isn't meant to be from the PNG image for the same map shows!

  • Mine is more recent of a download, and the FCW is blank for me.

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