WIP: Local Map Ice Caves Exterior

CalibreCalibre Traveler
edited December 2020 in Show and Tell

Greets, everyone.

Hope everyone had a safe and happy holiday. ๐Ÿ˜Š

I need a bit o' advice please. I'm doing an area map for my game on Wednesday. The map is 38 miles H and 50 miles W. Problem is, I can't recall how to set symbol scale properly for this. Nor can I recall how to set the scale bar to say miles rather than feet heh. I've seen Ralf and Remy do this on their awesome vids, but I can't find/search correctly to find it. I'm planning to use Ryecroft Town /and/ Spectrum Overland. So, of course, all scales are off.

Could someone walk me through how to set the scales 'properly' or I should say, using the correct method please? Also, I have followed Remy's instructions on how to insert the Spectrum catalog into my map, so that has been done correctly ๐Ÿ˜




  • That sounds quite complicated already, and I am sure that what I call default symbol scale is not the same thing as you actually mean.

    Can you show us a screen shot of the issue? I'm finding it hard to visualise.

  • edited December 2020

    Pick up a symbol from the symbol.select left side of the program. Right click the mouse.

    On my cell, but it should be something like set normal.

    The symbol scale will change, if necessary, to fit that map scale.

    I sometimes change the scale larger or smaller after placing a symbol if I decide it doesn't look correct.

    A map of 1000 x 800 the symbol scale is 1.

    edit: Yes, right click with your mouse. A menu will show up. Click on 'Set Normal' with your left mouse button. Click More.

    Place a symbol on the map.

    If it looks wrong, click the blue circle arrow on the left side to undo the symbol placement.

    Start the same sequence, type in a different scale. Click More.

    Place the symbol.

    Repeat until satisfied with the symbol scale.

    Note you may have to do that for each symbol. But once placed, you wont have to do it again for the same symbol.

  • Jim has it right in that it's the "Set normal" command for symbols, and that you may need to adjust the symbol scaling further by eye to look right as well.

    I'm not sure there's an easy way to swap the distance-name label on those scale-bar symbols that have them added already (not all do). You might need to edit the symbol itself to do that. Where the symbol lets you add a distance by typing in a suitable number after you've placed the symbol, I think that can be adjusted using the normal Edit - Text - Edit Text command from the drop-down menu. That just lets you change the numbers though, not any "miles" or "feet" label.

    If you need to directly match the scale-bar to whatever your map scale is, the simplest way is to draw your own, using the relevant snap grid in the map (or create a new snap grid if there isn't one that exactly fits your needs). Just right click while hovering your cursor over the Grid button (lower right of the CC3+ window) to see, set up or adjust any of the snap grids.

    The default grids are always in miles or kilometres for Overland CC3+ maps, and feet or metres for Cities or Dungeon maps (the second options dependent on whether you created the map using a metric template or not),

  • This is all very true. But the question in my mind is what is normal for a map that is both an overland map, and a city map?

  • I'm planning to use Ryecroft Town /and/ Spectrum Overland. So, of course, all scales are off.

    Note that there isn't a single default scale for symbol that will work for both these sets of symbols, as these are not scaled in relation to each other. When mixing two different types of maps like this, you'll basically have to do a little work and experiment a bit with what scale works for the city symbols and for the overland symbols individually, and make a note of these two scales (hint: store it in a map note so it follows the map).

  • Agreed, some do have miles and feet at the bottom; however, some don't. Just look around in the symbols you have for one that doesn't have those labels.

    Add your own label to it.

    I put the scale on the text sheet, and highlight it so it is easy to find. Mostly I use Outer Glow on text. White in the effect if my text is black, or black if my text is white. Adjustments do sometimes need to be made in radious, etc. in Outer Glow effects.

    I have made my own scale bars using lines with Ortho on. Then labeled them.

  • Guys, thanks so much. I've been struggling trying to decide how to proceed with this project. Exhausted from trying to 'guess' and search forums and asking you guys for help (which you give freely and smartly which I appreciate greatly) I've finally bought the Tome and am going through it now. I will, however, ask your advice and present the project. Below is the Area Map I need in its original format. I want to draw this in CC3+ or whatever.

    To simplify, could you guys answer, please: How would YOU tackle this simple little project?

    thanks kindly


  • CalibreCalibre Traveler
    edited December 2020

    It may be I need to have this thread moved to another category? I'm going to show WIP.

    Step 1: Insert the bitmap:

    The bitmap is on it's own sheet and layer. I have created sheets: Contour, Contour 2, and Contour 3 in case needed depending on which method I have to use for some of the contours on the actual map.

    Next will be symbol scale.

  • CalibreCalibre Traveler
    edited December 2020

    The scale follows the tome: width/1000 and is automatically set. For Local Maps (which I am calling Area Maps) it says new map width/old map width. There is no old map ๐Ÿ˜‘

    This is the first problem. The scale of 0.05 (auto set by CC3+ but also equals Remy's formula) is perfect for trees, ridiculous for mountains. Besides, I need to see the entirely of the terrain and placing mountain symbols would obscure too much of the area. So, I am going to have to draw the contour lines. This, then, is my question. How best to do this?

    Things I've tried:

    1: Draw out each contour area as polygons and each with it's own color.

    2: Draw out each contour area as polygons and all of the same color.

    3: Draw paths and try to edit the widths of the paths.

    Each of the attempts was kinda meh.

    What do you guys think?



    PS: Oh, almost forgot. I saw on the forums a mapper draw and print out a huge map with contours used for military strategy game, I believe. I can't find it and in any case, I don't recall him explaining how he did it heh.

  • edited December 2020

    Well, most City maps, and certainly Ryecroft does, have a Hill drawing tool. This goes on a sheet with a bevel effect. By playing around with the bevel settings you can generate decent looking hills, mountains. A lot depends of course on how accurate you need to be. Look at @Ralf’s live mapping session using the Ryecroft style. I haven’t used @Loopysue’s Spectrum style, but there should be forest drawing tools to take care of that.

    Personally, I would do. Regional map and a separate City map.

  • Screens:

    Below: grossly huge scales on mountains obscuring terrain:

  • Thanks, Jim

    Well, I tried the city map, but the scale was bizarre since city maps are in feet and the overland is in miles/kms. As Remy said above, I'd have to go to each symbol and alter scale and make a note of each alteration so I wouldn't go mad trying to keep it in memory heh. I haven't tried the contours + bevel lighted at the settings Ralf used but I did try the shaded relief style. I was getting weird errors trying the latter and finally decided to reinstall update 3.94 since I had added a couple of annuals. Still getting some wonkiness with symbols and may need to do a reinstall, etc.


  • And, some examples:


  • I can see that you are approaching this map full of enthusiasm, Calibre. However, I have to agree with Jim (jmabbott) in that I think it would be better to do a regional overland map and a separate city map that focuses entirely on the local environs of the city itself. The overland style is an isometric style, while the city style is a top view style. I am thinking that these two things will look quite odd mixed together anyway, quite apart from the scaling issues you are having.

    An alternative might be to do something like this instead, but modify it to suit the fact that those are hills, not cliffs:

  • Thanks, Sue!

    Yes, I have the town already done by itself. Very pleased with that heh. The regional map is one by whit2468 which he kindly posted for use. I have yet to install his bitmaps textures so I can activate the FCW--will do that asap.

    And I am going to seriously absorb your suggestion above. Thanks indeed...that looks like what I need ๐Ÿคฉ

    thanks you 10,000 times!


  • You're welcome :)

  • Mr. Remy, you may wish to move this thread to another category, as I've turned it into a WIP. ๐Ÿ˜

    Step 1: Rectangle and Color Key

    Interesting notes:

    1: Thought I might have to make a new tool just to lay out the magenta cuts so I could easily edit existing poly; turned out, using smooth poly tool is additive ๐Ÿ™‚

    2: Notice I cannot delete nodes on smooth poly tool drawn poly's...hmm, is that normal? I don't think so!

    3: Ms. Sue, would you share the settings on your various sheet effects? Would you mind? I can understand if you prefer not. I'm an artist as well (traditional and virtual) and completely understand if you wish to retain your techniques โ˜บ๏ธ




  • The settings are all available in the FCW file you can download from the blog page. You could open that alongside your own map and use copy and paste to copy them to your own map.

    The effects are tuned to work with the textures used on that sheet each time, so you might want to use List from the Info menu to find out what those fills are. They will all be CD3 fills, so you might want to create an empty CD3 map and import it and then undo the import, just to import those fills with relative ease.

  • CalibreCalibre Traveler

    Thanks, Sue

    I've tried and tried to mimic this style for my map and must now admit defeat---grudgingly ๐Ÿ˜ญ

    I suppose I cannot determine exactly what needs doing visually heh. But I thank you indeed.


  • edited January 3

    Oh dear!

    Well, never mind. There is always more than one way to do a thing in CC3.

    Maybe a contour map would be better?

    For example, you could draw each of those contours on successive sheets and use Hue/Saturation Lightness sheet effects to make the higher elevations lighter and less intense in colour. Then as an option you could add an Edge Fade Inner sheet effect to each one (except the base sheet).

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