Hi Everyone :)

I was discussing various ideas with another member of the team when the subject of banners came up - how we don't seem to have very many.

I decided to make some for us.

As you know, there are many different types of banner and many different styles. I won't smother you here with lots of examples that are not my own work, but I've made a start with the biggest ones - the title banners. Shown here as a screen shot of the work in Affinity Designer (like PS Illustrator but not as expensive). I would be interested to know what you think.

The file here is representative of the standard 1000 x 800 map unit template, so this is the size the banners will appear to be in a standard overland map.

Maidhc O CasainTheschabiWeathermanSwedenQuentenjmabbottJimPDaishoChikaraWyvernRaikoquirky_cartographerand 4 others.


  • I've often lamented the lack of different styles of banners - I end up not using one because I can never find one that suits the map the way I want it to. So I think this is a GREAT idea!

  • Thank you, Maidhc :)

  • MedioMedio Surveyor

    Banners are a great idea. Go for it!

  • Totally in support

  • 100% in support. For that large overland MS style map I'm working on (can't post any more due to a NDA) I ended up re-sizing one of your scroll parchments @Loopysue for the title block.

  • Thank you! :D

    Do any of you have any suggestions?

  • Maybe ones with more of a curve up and down, and ones which can be used as diagonally placed side banners, and also vertical ones. (and we really really need corkscrew ones. 🤓)

  • I do have a sheet with things like you described for reference. However, it was pointed out to me that having to draw an accurate arc or a curve for the text to follow might make them too difficult to use, so I should perhaps concentrate on straight ones but in different styles.

    What are your thoughts on that?

  • I think we could get the arcs/curve right. I really would like curved ones. But that is just me, others may not care. The curved ones are very useful for heraldry, under shield and the like.

  • There may be room for certain 'flat' arcs - arcs that curve as if they are lying flat on the page and not 3D. CC currently doesn't allow you to shear text in any way unless you have Per3, but not everyone has Per3.

  • Sue is the hero we need, but not the hero we deserve! ;-)

  • LoopysueLoopysue 🖼️ 16 images Mapmaker ProFantasy
    edited November 2020

    Thank you :)

    I've done a bit more - a few ideas.

  • MonsenMonsen 🖼️ 44 images Mapmaker Administrator

    Nice ones. I actually like the bottom one a lot, as not every map has unlimited space for the title, so this maximizes the available space while still providing a nice banner.

  • Thank you, Remy :)

    There will be all kinds to come. I'm only just getting started.

  • It looks like you could break up the banners into a set of symbols. 
    • Banner, Body - Rectangular Parchment section with text attribute, various lengths
    • Banner, Left Curl Up - End section, simple curl on left side extending above the body. 
    • Banner, Right Curl Up - End section, simple curl on right side extending above the body. 
    • Banner, Left Curl Down - End section, simple curl on left side extending below the body. 
    • Banner, Right Curl Down - End section, simple curl on right side extending below the body.
    • Banner, Left Loop Up - End section, complex loop on left side extending above the body. 
    • Banner, Right Loop Up - End section, complex loop on right side extending above the body. 
    • Banner, Left Loop Down - End section, complex loop on left side extending below the body. 
    • Banner, Right Loop Down - End section, complex loop on right side extending below the body.  
    The origin of each end section symbol would be where it attaches to the banner body. The multiple end sections are so the curved parchment surfaces can be shaded properly. All symbols should be forced to a "SYMBOLS, BANNER" sheet with the appropriate drop shadow effect.
  • I thought of that, and then I thought... That means I would have to do a different banner body for each basic style I created, and then a different banner right end for each basic style I created, and then a different left end, and... by the time I finished this set could be about 500-1000 symbols strong. Then at the receiving end you would get a massive jigsaw puzzle where the pieces that you want might not necessarily be right next to each other in the catalogue due to it's sheer size - meaning that you would have to go hunting for the right ends for the body you have chosen. There is also the shadow problem - where you have to place each piece of your chosen banner exactly right on the spot so there are no horrible overlaps/underlaps of the shadow - which is essential to making them pop. (The shadow being built into the symbol).

    Anyone else have any thoughts along these lines?

  • @Loopysue - great work!

    Just wondering - have you thought about "splitting" the banners - into a right, middle and left part - so that maybe the banners can be expanded in the middle for longer text just by adding a multiple middle sections? Just an idea I had right now...🤔

  • edited November 2020

    I love the top one, and behold, we have a corkscrew one! Sue, you are a marvel!

  • @WeathermanSweden - I think that is what Dalton was suggesting above my last comment. I did think about it, but the built in shadows and the sheer number if bits and pieces might make it rather difficult. I think I need to finish the set before I can show you how many that might mean.

    @Quenten - thank you :)

  • Oh Sue, I should have read the discussion above more properly...😊

    Couldn't the shadows be generated in CC3+ with a Drop Shadow effect or would this lead to some unexpected behaviour?

    I look forward to see more of your banner-creation!


  • Sue,

    Is there any way to make a wizard that helps people pick out the proper ends and the number of "middle" sections they need to make their banner appropriately sized? Or maybe a way to make them auto-size to fit text/image content?

  • Have to say that the "stack of three" made me think this might be an interesting idea as a full-sized piece of art to use as a background/sort-of template for something in the style of the Strip Maps from CA Vol 3.

  • @WeathermanSweden - Thank you, André :) And the shadow could be done in CC3...

    @DaishoChikara - Oh that's way over my head. I wouldn't have a clue. You would have to ask PF about that. What I can say is that I asked a related question some time ago about whether we could have a text-related effect that placed a background fill behind the text in a block, but I think the answer was no.

    @Wyvern - I hadn't thought of that, but I think the artwork would be so large as to be extremely unwieldy, not to mention fixed and non-editable. Things are still at the thinking and doodling stage just yet, though, so I will think some more about it.

  • edited November 2020
    These are great @Loopysue. :)

    As a possibly ridiculous suggestion, could banners be made into a modular set like your cliffs? Sorry I can't remember the correct CC3 term, but so that a banner could be constructed from seamless parts?

    EDIT: Looking back through the thread, that might be the same thing that @WeathermanSweden was asking.
  • And Dalton! LOL!

    A guess this is a popular first thought.

    I will think about it, but for now I am wrestling more with what style, how many styles, parchment type... really basic stuff ;)

  • jslaytonjslayton Surveyor Moderator, ProFantasy

    Are you doing these as symbols? If so, are you making some of them with roof shading and no shadows so that they can be rotated for other map edges while still keeping the lighting and effects for the drop shadow? Maybe a shield, round ribbon, or something to hide allow corner joins?

  • Yes - as symbols, Joe :)

    The shading is currently produced as part of the image. I hadn't even thought of doing it with map files. What an interesting idea!

    I may try it once I get the styles and parchment types correct.

  • I'm thinking that "Making Banners" would be an excellent topic for a CA issue. It looks sufficiently complex to engage the imagination but with so many map styles out there creating a comprehensive catalogue of banner symbols would be a Herculean task. The practical alternative is to show mappers how to create their own banner symbols for the styles they use. While some mappers use a wide variety of styles most of us (particularly the "hobby" mappers) stick to a favorite few we like.
  • MedioMedio Surveyor

    Humm i dont see CC3+ as the best tool to create banners, to be honest. Can be done? Sure, CC3+ can do anything. Still, not the best tool. What is true is that banners are tied to styles, some can tie with other styles but usually you have to stick with a banner of your style or annual.

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