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    • CommentAuthorScottA
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018
     
    How about carts pulled up the inclined track by mountains goats? Gravity should get the carts down, and rope and pullies to control the speed of descent?
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018
     
    If I decide to keep the cavern I'm going to imply the use of water and gravity - a traditional water powered funicular (such as the one I've ridden on myself not that far away in Devon - the Lynton and Lynmouth cliff railway), where there are two carriages on opposite sides of the ramp attached to one another by a very long cable that loops around a large wheel at the top. The operator at the top decides how much water to load into the water tank underneath the carriage based on how many passengers he has, and how many are waiting to come up in the other carriage. Sufficient water is added to make the carriage at the top slightly heavier than the one at the bottom, so once the brakes are let off the movement is driven by gravity.

    At the bottom of the ramp there will be a pool of waste water discharged by the bottom carriage to make it light enough to go back up to the top with passengers/cargo.

    This creates something of a problem in this particular map, however, since the cavern is below sea level... at the moment... and there's no way to get rid of the waste water (never mind any deluges - magical, sewerage, or otherwise), so I might have to undo what I did yesterday and save this cavern idea for another city.

    I'm trying to make up my mind today which way to go, and how to solve the problem if I decide to keep the cavern.
    • CommentAuthorLorelei
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018 edited
     
    Keep the cavern!! It looks fantastic! As far as the mechanics of "getting down"....suspension of disbelief goes a LONG way in fantasy rpg. Perhaps Dumathoin, the patron god of mining and underground exploration grants it's power? Like the saying goes....Don't sweat the small stuff :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018
     
    The cavern could have a hole dug down to a large underground cavern, under the seabed - which would take all the deluge water/sewerage - until it too filled up, but heh, be 21st century - don't worry about the long term future - let the unborn bozos cope with that - we have profits to make.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018
     
    Ok ok LOL!

    I'll keep the cavern. I can see I am deficient in the imagination department this morning. Great ideas both of them.
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018
     
    Sue, you could make the cavern entrance a lot smaller, and set it higher than sea level (on a low hill, say) if the whole "flooding" thing becomes too much of a distraction. A quarry can be into a hillside, rather than into the ground, after all (many ancient and medieval quarries were simply convenient surface rock outcrops, for instance). Having the cavern then extend in whatever direction was desired from there, including even many miles out under the seabed, wouldn't be a problem for expert miners - real-world humans have managed it for generations, so fantasy dwarves should have no difficulties!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 12th 2018
     
    I can see what you mean, Wyvern, and if this was the real world I would probably do just exactly that - not have a gaping hole in the middle of the city like that. But now that I've done it, its sort of grown on me in a strange way and I really want to make it work.

    I think there will be a much smaller hole in the floor of the existing cavern that is a gateway to some marvellous underworld - through which any downpour can conveniently drain away to wherever such things go on a fantasy world...

    Such a special site must of course, have some kind of dwarven temple associated with it ;)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    Well, my computer keeps giving me the blue screen treatment. Win 10 and the processor security upgrades hit me really badly. I'm having a lot of trouble all over the place with all my apps, so I think it will be fairly soon I have to shut everything down and take it to the repair shop. That might take about a week, and even when I get it back I may have to reinstall everything from the backup, so...

    Sanctuary is still in progress. I've just hit an unavoidable delay of approximately a fortnight to 3 weeks. During that time I won't be able to see or speak - cut off from the virtual world. (I can't believe how much anxiety I feel about that prospect - its just nuts).

    I haven't died. It just my machine that's dead - for now.

    I might try to delay this inevitable event for another couple of days and take it to the shop on Monday morning first thing, but I just thought I'd warn everyone now, in case I forget to say anything just before I pull the plug.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018 edited
     
    Sue, I hope that you can get your computer up and running again. We'll miss you while you're gone. :(

    Mine has been giving me fits on occasion too so I know how you feel. Every major update causes my task manager to go blank and I have to repair system files. I know a full reinstall of the OS would fix me up, but I'm just too lazy to do it. I just have too much software I'd have to reinstall and I don't feel like it. I was going to do it after the 2017 Fall Creators Update but just keep putting it off. I'm pathetic. LOL
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    Not half as pathetic as I am.

    I have to go and pay someone to plug in more RAM, check the fans and all the other bits and pieces are working properly, and finally clean 3 years of dust out my machine.

    I'm so pathetic that I'm afraid to open the thing up myself. I think that's because its the only PC I have. Its not like I have a spare if I mess it up.

    Feeling slightly sick about this now, since I've just been trying to back up to an external drive, and it appears the external drive isn't working properly, so I'm also going to have to pay for the man in the shop to back up my drive before he does anything to it. *rolls eyes*

    I'm still working up the courage...
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    We sound like a pair. My backup drive died back in the fall.

    Good luck with this Sue. If you were in the US I could point you to a reasonably priced backup drive that might cost less than paying someone to do it. Alas, we have a big pond between us.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    LOL! And that pond costs about £40 for the smallest parcel to cross - without the postage. That's what the customs charge the recipient in this country for anything that's been spot checked at customs, and for some reason they ALWAYS check parcels coming to me!!!

    I think its because I once had an American boyfriend... or something.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    That's about what the drive itself would cost!!

    I understand the whole customs thing. My husband is an amateur WWII historian and often orders books and scale models from across the pond that just aren't available here. It gets expensive but it keeps him happy. :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    I know! Tell me about it. So annoying!

    Your hubby sounds like a sweet man with a loving wife ;)

    I've just checked the drive and found nothing wrong with it, but still the backup won't work. I BET this is Win 10 at fault... AGAIN!!! This OS is so riddled with stupid holes I wish every day that I'd stuck with 8.1. In fact, if I discover its not going to cost as much as I thought to get the RAM and the cleaning job done, I might just ask them to reinstall 8.1 for me - even though that would mean a complete and total reinstall of absolutely every last piece of software I own. It would be worth it to get rid of Win 10.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    Part of the problem is that they keep adding stuff to Windows10 and some of us have slightly older systems that just bog down with the excess. My laptop is four years old now and I hope to get another year out of it. I'm just happy that CC3+ runs well on it.

    Well, I'm off for the night. I hope everything works out for you!
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    Thanks Shessar :)

    I'm busy overheating the device now by defragging it! LOL!
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeMay 18th 2018
     
    I have Win 7 on my main computer - and no problems; and Win 10 on my laptop, with only a few problems, mainly because i hardly ever use it unless we go away, and then not much (and we only go away once a year for more than an overnight stay). I'll be sticking to Win 7, until I get better reports
    •  
      CommentAuthorOldGuy
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: Loopysue[...] if I discover its not going to cost as much as I thought to get the RAM and the cleaning job done [...]

    You may well find yourself happily surprised about memory prices.
    I recently bought 32 GB of ram and was surprised that it had come down so much since last I checked:
    Two 2x8 GB Corsair Vengeance Pro 1600 MHZ DDR3 Kits for $139.99 per kit ( 32 GB total )
    ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00D2LGRLK/ )
    And Corsair Memory Fan for $29.53 including accent covers in all three colors.
    ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00GU9UG9A )
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 19th 2018
     
    Meanwhile, back at my place...

    Still waiting for the backup to finish - now that I've actually got my laptop to 'see' the external drive.

    Very bored. Now that I've got it working I dare not do anything in case I upset the equilibrium.

    But its nice to know that I will probably be able to afford to bring this back to its original state - a perfectly usable Win 8.1 machine again. Thanks :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 20th 2018 edited
     
    This version has been a while coming. I've been fiddling around with things that seem quite small, but which have taken a lot of thinking and planning - new breakwaters, colours, relief shading and road patterns...

    City of Sanctuary Version 2 - 07 (1024).JPG

    The larger image is here.
  1.  
    Really, really nice work! :-)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2018
     
    Thank you Charles :)

    I've just noticed that I have some kind of transparency acne going on in the castle grounds. Looks like I need to sort that out next ;)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2018
     
    Posted By: LoopysueThank you Charles :)

    I've just noticed that I have some kind of transparency acne going on in the castle grounds. Looks like I need to sort that out next ;)


    Maybe someone was digging in the castle grounds for buried treasure ? :-)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeMay 21st 2018
     
    Looks more like giant antlions at work there - under the east and west towers. That's worrying! They seem to have some kind of strategy going.

    :P

    Its actually a render issue I'm having. I got rid of it by turning the antialiasing down from 75% to just 40% - which is more than enough for most images, and it increases the depth of each pass across the map. The castle just happens to be on the dividing line between passes when the AA is set at 75%. I must remember to add a little rendering advice to the map notes for this one ;)
  2.  
    Wow, lovely map. Very nice colour palette.
    Going to be scrutinizing over this thread, as I always having trouble to make town and city maps look pleasing to the eye (they end up more business like). I can learn a lot from this thread I think.
    And bookmarked that generator at the start of the thread too. A ton of smaller and larger communities still need mapping in my world.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2018
     
    Thank you, Silverdrop :)

    There is nothing wrong with a business-like map. This is just my personal preference showing ;)

    The watabou generator is great for the basics, but I have found that it generates a huge number of triangular buildings, and that the rivers are just a bit too angular for my taste and tend to avoid the settlement rather a lot too much.

    There is a random city generator within CC3, if you also want to try that?

    You have to load a city template, and go to the City menu, picking Random city.... That brings up the first in a string of dialogues in which you can set different variables.
    • CommentAuthorSilverdrop
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2018 edited
     
    I think I tried it before (as a macro), cant quite find it in the city menu now that I look for it. It was nice enough, but the feel of the watabou generator for some reason "clicks"

    edit: some googling done and I think the reason that I don't see it is perhaps that I haven't installed the 2017 annual into CC3+ yet. (transition and all that) Maybe I should do that first.
    ...
    Ah, separate download from CD3...install that first, had done that for CC3 but bot CC3+
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2018
     
    I have the 2017 annual now, but I could swear it was made available to me on my registration page (and for anyone who has CD3) at about the same time the annual came out, and before I actually had that annual.

    Both generators are good. And both have their drawbacks. It depends what you are looking for in a city plan ;)
  3.  
    Got it now. I'll fidget around as I played around with it back in 2012 when it first came around for CC3. things may have changed since then
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2018 edited
     
    Loopysue wrote:I have the 2017 annual now, but I could swear it was made available to me on my registration page (and for anyone who has CD3) at about the same time the annual came out, and before I actually had that annual.

    Both generators are good. And both have their drawbacks. It depends what you are looking for in a city plan ;)

    The Random City command is a free download for CD3 owners. It was developed by community member and Master Mapper, L. Lee Saunders before CC3+ came out, and so was the installer. So, unless you knew how to install it manually for CC3+ (or followed the instructions here), you probably didn't have it. It was updated to run with CC3+ for the June 2017 issue of the Cartographer's Annual. The updated installer was also made available to CD3 owners that month, so that's why you probably associate it with the annual, Loopysue.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2018 edited
     
    While discussing the Random City command, Silverdrop mentioned:I think I tried it before (as a macro)...

    You can run it from the command line (once it's installed) by simply typing CITY and then pressing Enter. Again, though, as Loopysue mentioned, you only want to do that from within a map based on a city template.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 1st 2018
     
    Posted By: DogtagThe Random City command is a free download for CD3 owners. It was developed by community member andMaster Mapper, L. Lee Saunders before CC3+ came out, and so was the installer. So, unless you knew how to install it manually for CC3+ (or followed the instructionshere), you probably didn't have it. It was updated to run with CC3+ for theJune 2017 issue of the Cartographer's Annual. The updated installer was also made available to CD3 owners that month, so that's why you probably associate it with the annual, Loopysue.


    I didn't have the annual till really quite late that year, so I had the installer before I got the annual ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2018 edited
     
    Loopysue responded:I didn't have the annual till really quite late that year, so I had the installer before I got the annual ;)

    Sure, we discussed the command back in June 2017 when you downloaded it, before you got the annual. I merely meant that the download was available from the CD3 downloads years before the June 2017 issue of the annual; it just wouldn't install to CC3+. So, unless you were using CC3, or knew how to manually set it up for CC3+, you probably didn't have it installed until June 2017.  :D
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 2nd 2018
     
    Oh I see :)

    I installed CC3 but never used it.

    I was much more into regional mapping back then, and didn't have any of the annuals to make using CC3 necessary. That's probably why I just didn't realise it was there until the CC3+ installer came out.

    I wonder if I might have mapped Merelan City differently if I'd known about it...
  4.  
    Started a new city map myself now, but would love to pick your brain how you managed the fills for the grass and towers/wall (especially the outer bit). I'm just wrestling with the scaling of the fills as usually. when trying to adapt fills for my use it's an uphill battle against pixelation and the texture being too repetitive.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    The fill for the towers, wall and ramps is just one fill. I used Brick 08 from Bogies Mapping Objects collection available from Vintyri through the links in the resources thread at the top of the forum. I've used an RGB Matrix sheet effect on all of those layers to unify the colour of the stone, the roads, and the rocks throughout and make everything look a lot more natural - as if the city was really built of local stone. I'm re-plotting a novel right now, but when I open Sanctuary later today I will get a screen shot of the settings I used in that RGB matrix so you can get an idea.

    I also had a problem with texture repetition using the built in styles because sanctuary covers 15000 x 15000 square feet (about 2 1/2 miles wide and tall), and I didn't want it to just be plain solid colour, so first I tried using the Herwin Wielink green land texture, but even that proved a bit too repetitive. I'm currently using the dirt texture I made for this map with an HSL effect to turn it green for grass. Its available in the Malajuri folder of the Community Atlas. If you don't want to go rooting around for it, though, an alternative I thought about but haven't used for now is to use the solid green colour fill typical of the Bitmap A city templates, but to add a Texturize effect to the sheet so that its not so flat looking.

    As long as a fill isn't pixelated, and the texture looks the right size for the map, you can combat repetitiveness to a certain extent by using 2 or 3 very similar fills each on their own sheet with an edge fade inner effect, and drawing polys in each of those fills on their respective sheets to break up the patterns. Also don't forget that as soon as you start covering the background with houses and other features the fill is broken up, and the repetitiveness is far less obvious. I once did a city map with only 2 grass fills from Bogies Mapping Objects. It was most horribly repetitive because the fills from that source don't have a VH resolution, but by using the grass textures to break each other up, and by covering the map with trees and roads and buildings, it worked really well in the end.

    I draw my walls slightly differently to the preset wall drawing tools. I have two sheets. I draw the full extent of the walls on the bottom sheet in a line that is 30ft wide (a little excessive, but this is fantasy) and add a directional wall shadow to that one, then I copy the whole lot from that sheet to the upper one, reduce the line thickness to 20ft, and add just a slight dark glow set to 'inside' to give the illusion that it is sunk into the top of the wall. That way it is the outer wall that casts the shadow, and not the path along it.

    I think I answered all your questions. Just shout if I missed one ;)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    This is the RGB Matrix I mentioned earlier. Its used on all the roads and cobbles as well.
      RGB Matrix.jpg
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    You've got me all curious now!

    Are we going to see a WIP thread for this city?
  5.  
    Thanks for the elaborate reply. I think your wall technique sounds interesting and I'm definitely gonna experiment with that. I has already identified the Bogie Brick 08 from your earlier zoomed in pictures and assumed the RGB matrix part for the later image, I just could not get the outer part. Now I understand better how it's done :)

    Just downloaded the tree's and city fills from the community atlas site, gonna have a look at those. A bit of repetitiveness is alright and can be broken up, but what I was talking about is that the fill is obviously looking like a bunch of small squares, and when I try adjusting the scaling I'm fighting the pixelation. Sometimes I just wish I had a more control over when CC makes the switch from one resolution to another.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: SilverdropSometimes I just wish I had a more control over when CC makes the switch from one resolution to another.
    You do. Hit the Fill style Resolutions button in the Display Speed dialog. This is a per map setting.
  6.  
    I may do a WIP thread, but my maps can take quite a while to mature. Also since I want/need to do quite a couple of towns and cities I'm now trying to make my own style (literally a separate style within CC3, so when I make a new city, I can just pick my own style and have all the fills and drawing tools set as needed) so I have consistency across multiple maps. This is also why I was scrutinizing over this thread as there are some bumps in the road I need to overcome before I can really dig in.
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    You can use fixed resolution if you really want to, though I would recommend not working on the map in VH fixed resolution, since it makes them very slow, and being able to see the whole map in VH no matter how far out you zoom is actually a bit confusing, since it starts to look a bit like a microscopically engineered Pointillist painting (think George Seurat, and Paul Signac).

    You can fix the resolution by clicking the hourglass symbol
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    Hahahahaaaa

    Was that a double or triple ninja by just about everybody on everybody else?
  7.  
    Posted By: Monsen
    Posted By: SilverdropSometimes I just wish I had a more control over when CC makes the switch from one resolution to another.
    You do. Hit the Fill style Resolutions button in the Display Speed dialog. This is a per map setting.


    Thank you! I'm going to experiment with this, as I'll gladly sacrifice display speed for quality. NOt yet sure if it's the full answer to my struggle, as this is a uniform setting for all fills whereas I'd love to have had this as a setting for a fill-style. But hey, this is better than not having the setting at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    Just set it according to your largest scaled fill and you'll be fine.
  8.  
    I fiddled around a bit with your way of making walls and towers and I have to say, I'm quite happy with the simplicity of it yet how nice the effect is. Here's the result of my quick experimentation
      towers.png
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018
     
    That's great, Silverdrop :)
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 3rd 2018 edited
     
    You can add a second line on that top sheet - for the crenulations.

    I created a third very temporary sheet, copied the main wall onto it, then created a dashed line style with suitable spacing for crenulations and changed the properties of the copied main wall to the new dashed line. Then I moved the dashed line onto the top sheet. Being the same width and position as the main wall, but dashed instead of solid, it cut the crenulations out of the main wall.

    Towers are a bit different. You have to copy the inner part of the tower and give it a line width twice that of the difference between the inner and outer walls, then apply the dashed line. (at least, I think that's what I did...)

    Whether you bother with that or not is very much down to how much detail you want to add to your city ;)
      CRENULATIONS.JPG
  9.  
    Once again thanks for the elaborate explanation. Really inventive way to do walls in a good way for maps with more detail. Whilst experimenting I got mixed around with copying the parts which obviously gave the wrong result then I was trying to reproduce the effect and I couldn't reproduce the darkness between the crenellations. Until I realized I should use the regular glow and choose inside, rather than using the inner glow effect.

    I think I've managed to reproduce it now and just in case others run into difficulty as well and want to try this neat way of doing walls I made a visual overview with all the elements separated out and the combined effect.
      towers 2.png
    • CommentAuthorLoopysue
    • CommentTimeJun 4th 2018
     
    Excellent :)

    Yes - it is a bit confusing. I managed to get myself into quite a hilarious tangle when I was developing the crenulations :P

    Thank you for showing everyone the separate elements. I'm not half as organised as you are! LOL!