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    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015 edited
     
    There is a CC2 Greyhawk map in the ProFantasy Library that I've always loved. I haven't had much time lately to create my own maps, so I thought it would be fun to convert the old map to the new CC3+ Mike Schley style. I still have tweaking to do on it, but thought I'd share now to get input and recommendations. The png below is pretty pixelated, but I've attached the .fcw. Comments welcome.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
     
    Oh, this brings back memories. And the Schley style seems ideal for Greyhawk -- great work! I can't wait to open the FCW at home. One thing that's always bothered me about Darlene's map, however are the rivers that start in the middle of nowhere. I'd be very tempted to add hills and mountains around the headwaters, or lengthen the rivers into existing ranges.
  1.  
    Looks fantastic! I was going to do something similar, but now I won't bother. Just tell me when this is available to download...
    •  
      CommentAuthorOldGuy
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
     
    Awesome! Absolutely awesome!
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
     
    Sigh. I just need to work on my maps more...
  2.  
    I still have the old Greyhawk map/set.

    It is my favorite game world.

    This is awesome!

    I am totally geeking out right now - ha, ha!
  3.  
    Has anyone done a Krynn map?
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
     
    Now that I've had a chance to look at this in CC3+, I'm even more impressed. So much so that I almost want to reopen my old campaign in the Barony of Ratik. ;-) Thanks for posting it; it's going to be a very handy study tool.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDogtag
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2015
     
    Beautiful. I'm afraid I'm still a little awestruck. Hopefully I'll have some more helpful, constructive, comments once I've had a little while to look at it in CC3+.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2015
     
    Thanks for the kind words everyone! This has been a fun project.

    Barliman, The river layout drives me nuts too. However, after so many years of it being this way, it might be considered sacrilege to fix them. :)

    Blackadder23, I've scaled up the coat of arms and city marker symbols from the original and as a result have overlapping symbols and text to fix. There are also a few places where the mountains and forests overlap weird. I also want to add farmland and other terrain details. I will certainly post the final version when I'm done!

    JimP, I redrew one mountain range on this map 5 times. Practice certainly helps. :D
    • CommentAuthorSandor87
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2015
     
    What is the size on that map? Every time i try to make one it turns to crap and me rageing quiting :p

    Trying to make a large map with two huge continents, however i never manged to fitt them on the map :S also i still havent figured out how to add color to the islands manuely when i have finisht drawing them :S

    yeas i am a newbie and i have read the cc3+ manuel and i am not getting any smarter. I miss paint lol.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2015
     
    Sandor87, The map is 3900 w by 2900 high.

    Keep trying! Mastering overland maps has taken me a very long time to be honest. I spent a lot of time examining other maps, and trying to imitate them so that I got a better idea of how to make them look good. I still really struggle with mountains. It usually takes me several tries before I get something that I'm satisfied with.

    My best advice is to make things random like nature is random. A forest should never have a straight edge, rivers should be two to three times longer than the overall distance they travel by winding side to side and through forests and fields. Mountains should blend into hills which should merge into more mountains. Forests should grow up the sides of mountains.

    It is the overall blending of one part into another that gives a map a more organic look.
    • CommentAuthorBarliman
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2015
     
    Great advice, Shessar, and mountains have been the hardest thing for me, too.
    • CommentAuthorAEIOU
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2015
     
    @Sandor87: Keep in mind also that Greyhawk is a subsection of a larger continent whereas you are trying to draw two full continents. You may want to consider breaking those continents into smaller projects that you can go into detail on and have one very general map of the full world. Trying to add this level of detail to two continents is difficult.

    I'm working on material from Frog God Games' new Lost Lands setting and they use a hex size of 50 miles. They are mapping out a world. But when you look at maps in their adventures, there are rivers and towns and forests that aren't on their large-scale maps because the detail is too fine. This may be something for you to consider doing as well with detail getting finer and more elaborate as you create new maps that zoom in on specific regions.

    Keep at it! And when the mapping gets frustrating, take a break and come back when it's fun again.
    • CommentAuthorSandor87
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2015
     
    Thank you all for the good advices :) I Also did find a very good tutorial by Joe Sweeney on youtube, it really helpt.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeAug 23rd 2015
     
    I made two large hemispheres, and I am in the process of making small parts of those.

    But orginally I took around 500 5mm hexagon maps of the surface of Crestar, scanned them, imported them a map at a time into CC2. Then exported as jpg, later changed to png after Allyn suggested the maps would look better, then stitiched them together using html. I then expanded the game world to 2000 surface maps of 185 x 234 miles each.

    I kept those maps, but I'm slowly reworking the surface maps. Only about 450 to 500 new surface maps at this time.

    I was used to paint programs, but now I prefer CC3.
    • CommentAuthorkaladorn
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2015
     
    Posted By: BarlimanOh, this brings back memories. And the Schley style seems ideal for Greyhawk -- great work! I can't wait to open the FCW at home. One thing that's always bothered me about Darlene's map, however are the rivers that start in the middle of nowhere. I'd be very tempted to add hills and mountains around the headwaters, or lengthen the rivers into existing ranges.


    Perhaps I have an explanation that will help rationalize what is seen with what makes sense... (not saying it was what was in the minds of the original designers, just that it could work as a post-facto rationale)....

    Rivers feed from tributaries. Big rivers feed from smaller tributaries which often themselves feed from several (or many) smaller tributaries.

    Thus it is conceivable that, given a continent (or large region as I suppose Greyhawk's map is) can't map all smaller tributaries beyond a certain threshold. This means where the rivers visibly end simply means that tributaries beyond that point (perhaps all coming from higher elevations such as mountains or hills eventually or from lakes and other sources of water at higher elevations) are simply too small to be seen on the full regional map at the scale it is presented.

    So, effectively, the rivers may go all the way up to the mountains (by various and multiple tributaries originating there) but those aren't shown due to the minimum size criteria that keeps many smaller waterways off these maps.

    Maybe that helps.

    Interesting aside: The word map I've been using for the World of Kaladorn for 28 years was originally acquired by a friend from a rummage/garage sale. It was six sheets of (meant to be linked) hexpaper with complete or partial map segments in the Greyhawk original map style. In the same 3 ring hard covered folder was the original WoG gazetteer and, cut into page sized segments, the original poster map from the release BEFORE the first boxed set (cardboard folder). So the original artist, whomever he may have been, was expanding Greyhawk to add six new hex-paper pages of additional maps. And his work, sadly not as complete as I'd have liked in areas, is beautiful. He had a real talent for cartography. (Now, I took the maps and made them the basis of my game world without reference to Greyhawk, but that was their origins and you can find where the map links back to the Greyhawk map - or at least an educated guess).

    Maybe if I ever get it done in CC3/3+, I'll post it for those who might find that Greyhawk tie in amusing. A long way to get there though.
  4.  
    (Just to clarify: this comment is not aimed at anyone in particular, but rather at a common attitude I have observed about fantasy world-building that strikes me as excessively dogmatic and overly mundane.)

    I believe it's important to keep our maps somewhat grounded in reality. "It's magic" can become a cop-out if overused, and too many fantastical elements can make a setting hard for players to comprehend.

    Nevertheless, I also feel it's important to remember that these are FANTASY maps, and it may not always serve us best to be overly mundane (or what some people may consider "realistic") in our thinking. If we see a river that starts seemingly in the middle of nowhere, we could easily ask ourselves "What is the LEAST fantastical explanation for this?" and provide some rationale rooted in real world hydrographics. But we might sometimes instead ask ourselves "What is the MOST fantastical explanation for this?" and go with that. Maybe the river fountains out of the ground at its headwaters. Maybe it falls endlessly from a giant thundercloud. Maybe a colossal statue of a god pours it out of a pitcher. Maybe it flows into our world from a source in Arcadia or Hades. The possibilities in a fantasy world are limitless, unless we limit ourselves.

    I'm not saying EVERY anomaly should have such an outre explanation; that would quickly lose its impact and become ludicrous. But certainly an occasional such prodigy would remind players that they are in a FANTASY world, and excite their sense of wonder and mystery (not to mention how it could provide adventure hooks - what if they tried to follow the backflow into Hades or Arcadia, for example?)

    Just trying to provide a slightly different perspective on realism in fantasy maps...
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2015
     
    Hmm... Crestar is an artifical world in a pocket universe composed of two flat land/ocean areas. The inhabitants think its spherical.

    Some rivers do fount up from the ground. Most come down from mountains as small streams and brooks, then large streams, then rivers as you mention.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVintyri
    • CommentTimeNov 10th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: Blackadder23I also feel it's important to remember that these are FANTASY maps, and it may not always serve us best to be overly mundane (or what some people may consider "realistic") in our thinking. If we see a river that starts seemingly in the middle of nowhere, we could easily ask ourselves "What is the LEAST fantastical explanation for this?" and provide some rationale rooted in real world hydrographics. But we might sometimes instead ask ourselves "What is the MOST fantastical explanation for this?" and go with that. Maybe the river fountains out of the ground at its headwaters. Maybe it falls endlessly from a giant thundercloud. Maybe a colossal statue of a god pours it out of a pitcher. Maybe it flows into our world from a source in Arcadia or Hades. The possibilities in a fantasy world are limitless, unless we limit ourselves.


    One of the bases of mythology, the "Elder Edda," tells us that the world's great 11 rivers all flow out from beneath the great ash tree Yggdrasil. Our Jorðgarð (TM) campaign setting is based to a great extent upon certain mythologies. In integrating the definitions of the mythologies into an RPG campaign setting, we were faced constantly with choices of whether to integrate things that are impossible in our real world into the campaign setting or to redefine them in a matter that did not violate their base definition but that still fit into the RPG setting or to ignore them completely.

    An unreality that we kept was the Edda's definition of the 11 great rivers. In our setting, all 11 rivers flow down from Yggdrasil in the far north toward the equator, emptying into seas and oceans. This is not merely hydrographical unreality; it's hydrographical nonsense. Nonetheless, I can't picture it interfering in any way with an RPG campaign. I can't even picture most game masters noticing the unreality of it or caring if they do notice it.

    Redefinition? The lead characters from the Finnish Kalevala, were a different matter. The Kalevala defines Ilmarinen as being a dwarf. It portrays Lemminkäinen, Väinämöinen and Luohi, the Queen of Pohjola, as being something more than normal humans, but it never tells us just what they are. In the Jörðgarð setting, Lemminkäinen and Väinämöinen are light elves and Luohi is the dark elven Witch Queen of Pohjola (i.e. Northland). Any PCs who end up in Karelmaan (Karelenland) or Pohjola still will recognize them as the characters of the Kalevala, although they have been further defined as being elves. Making some sense out of the dwarf Ilmarinen as being part of this group took a bit more pondering. But it occurred to us that in the Edda, the black elves (later called dvergar or dwarves) evolved from light elves that had descended into the bowels of the earth and mutated. In the Jörðgarð setting, Ilmarinen was one such evolved black elf who regretted his descent and who returned to the surface, where he reunited with his still light elven brothers Lemminkäinen are Väinämöinen.

    Ignoring? The Edda also tells us that the first creature was a frost ogre named Ymir, and that the primeval ice turned into a cow named Audhumla and from her teats flowed four rivers of milk which fed Ymir. We could have tried to manipulate this in a way that it might have fit into the history of our world. But why bother? Doing so would have no effect upon RPG campaigns that take place in our setting. So, our history of the setting does not deny Ymir and Audhumla; it simply doesn't mention them at all.

    The point of all of this is that reality is not really the key thing in mapping or developing a setting for a campaign. What matters more is the setting's own virtual reality. In most cases, that setting already has an abundance of purported unrealities that are accepted readily. Scholars tell as that there are and never were such things as elves, dwarves and trolls. (I have friends in Iceland who strongly disagree as far as elves and dwarves are concerned, and I have other friends in Norway who disagree just as adamantly about the trolls.) Regardless of your point of view, elves, dwarves and trolls are just as much a reality within the virtual reality of most fantasy RPG campaign settings as humans are.

    The same thing is true about the geographical and geological features of a setting and how those features appear in maps. The key question is not whether those things occur in the real world but rather whether they make sense in the structural logic of the fantasy world. When you map or design an element in a campaign, key questions are whether you know why and how unreal things became real within the fantasy setting and whether they comply with the logic of the setting's own virtual reality.

    Mark Oliva
    The Vintyri (TM) Project
  5.  
    ^
    Sounds great! Norse mythology is one of my favorites. :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorMonsen
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: Blackadder23I believe it's important to keep our maps somewhat grounded in reality. "It's magic" can become a cop-out if overused, and too many fantastical elements can make a setting hard for players to comprehend.

    Nevertheless, I also feel it's important to remember that these are FANTASY maps, and it may not always serve us best to be overly mundane (or what some people may consider "realistic") in our thinking. If we see a river that starts seemingly in the middle of nowhere, we could easily ask ourselves "What is the LEAST fantastical explanation for this?" and provide some rationale rooted in real world hydrographics. But we might sometimes instead ask ourselves "What is the MOST fantastical explanation for this?" and go with that.
    My take on this is that we should indeed allow fantastic elements on our maps, it is after all, as you say, a fantasy map. But, magical features should never be an afterthought. You (or even worse, your players or readers) shouldn't discover this weird anomaly, which you then have to figure out a (magical) explanation for. If you intend a magical feature somewhere, then put it in, and it will enrich the flavor, but for everywhere else, the map should follow the laws of nature, as this will serve to preserve the wonder of magic. This is why I feel it is important to point out such "mistakes" in maps, and then leave it up to the creator if this is best explained by magic, or if he made a mistake and should instead correct it (or come up with a natural explanation) and keep the magic for a better occasion.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVintyri
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: MonsenIf you intend a magical feature somewhere, then put it in, and it will enrich the flavor, but for everywhere else, the map should follow the laws of nature, as this will serve to preserve the wonder of magic. This is why I feel it is important to point out such "mistakes" in maps, and then leave it up to the creator if this is best explained by magic, or if he made a mistake and should instead correct it (or come up with a natural explanation) and keep the magic for a better occasion.


    Basically, I share this opinion. However, before one points out errors, one should know what one is talking about. On another forum, I've seen too many people preaching lessons too often that simply are false. One of these false beliefs is that all rivers flow to the sea. In truth, there are many rivers in the real world that never reach the sea. The most prominent examples in the U.S.A. involve the Great Salt Lake and Lake Tahoe in California and Nevada, probably two of the 10 best known lakes in the U.S.A.

    Three rivers flow into the Great Salt Lake, and they end there. No river flows out of the the Great Salt Lake to the sea. Lake Tahoe in the Sierra Nevada Mountains has an outlet called the Truckee River that flows eastward down the mountains, through Truckee, California, and Reno, Nevada, before flowing into the desert Pyramid Lake on the Pyramid Indian Reservation in Nevada. Nothing flows out of Pyramid Lake.

    There are many more such examples around the world.

    So, I would suggest that people who want to comment on such things not follow the suit of the forum I mentioned and say, "I'm the River Police, and that's a violation!" but rather say, "Hmmm. Your river does not flow into the sea. That's unusual. What happens there?"

    If the creator of the area being mapped knows what he or she is doing, they probably will have a good answer compatible with things in the real world. If they don't know what they are doing, they may be grateful for your polite heads up. But if you want to play River Police, you might find that you're about as popular as the Spanish Inquisition.

    Mark Oliva
    The Vintyri (TM) Project
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2015
     
    Vintyri, I totally support your comments. Perhaps we should form the 'River Police' Police. There are many even more unusual geographical features on Earth than so-called 'world creators' seem to know about - eg rivers starting in the highlands, disappearing for many miles underground, then reappearing at a lower altitude, but seeming like a river just stopping in land with no lake or sea egress. Or rivers splitting into 2 downstream. Same things for lakes and mountains. So perhaps the best thing before criticizing would be to be very sure such things don't happen on Earth
  6.  
    I support both of your comments. Especially:

    Posted By: qwalkerOr rivers splitting into 2 downstream.


    I don't understand this one at all. I easily found several examples of rivers splitting downstream in the real world. There's even a technical term for it ("river bifurcation") and for the split-off rivers ("distributaries"). It's uncommon but certainly not unheard of. So why do I keep seeing "Rivers don't split downstream" repeated dogmatically on this forum?
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2015 edited
     
    Blackadder, I have added your name to the 'River Police' Police. Congratulations. :)
  7.  
    Posted By: qwalkerBlackadder, I have added your name to the 'River Police' Police. Congratulations. :)


    Ha ha thanks.

    At first I was really confused by those comments, because it seemed obvious to me that rivers DO split downstream; if they don't, what are those things I see in the Nile and Rhine deltas (among others)? Then I decided the idea must be "Rivers don't split downstream EXCEPT AT DELTAS". But I was able to find several real world examples of rivers splitting outside of deltas, so I'm back to not understanding those comments at all.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 12th 2015 edited
     
    Just coming from people who don't know enough about real world geography.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVintyri
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2015 edited
     
    Posted By: qwalkerJust coming from people who don't know enough about real world geography.


    ... but a lot about playing policeman.
    • CommentAuthorShessar
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2015
     
    I understand how some people will be bothered by odd river flows. I see it in my gaming group, especially with the engineers. Fluid Dynamics. You can't change the laws of physics. Water flows down hill. They are right, you know.

    However, we aren't talking about the real world, and It does my heart good to see this discussion. I went on a rant once with my group on how the trend in gaming maps was leaning towards imitating a "real world/google maps" style and less towards fantasy/fanciful maps. (ProFantasy offers both styles, and I love them for it.) In a world where there are elves and dragons and magic, why does the land itself have to imitate our reality? Bleh!

    Still, there are a couple of rivers in the above map that drive me crazy. :D
    • CommentAuthorGathar
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2015
     
    I don't mind changing all laws of physics in a gaming world, but I think you have to take two points into account:
    - It has to have a purpose
    - You should know it (and communicate on it) before it affects the characters.

    Having a very fuzzy political view of the world is not an issue, make the player start in an isolated outpost until your mind is clear enough, it won't have a strong impact. But changing the law of physics will have much more impacts, and is not something you can change easily afterwards...

    For instance, if you say that rivers flows upwards during the night, its fine, but everybody should know it in the world. Boats will wait for the night when travelling upstream, people will avoid throwing garbage in the river just before dusk...

    Even localized magic can have an impact. In a previous message, someone spoke or a river coming out of a statue. This is fine, very fine. But unless nobody has ever seen it, it also has an impact. Imagine that the players lived downstream, but the crying goddess thing was not decided yet. Then suddenly, this statue exists, and has always existed. This has the potential of destroying the credibility of previous adventure because religious zealots did not interfere when they peed in the river. Because religious ceremonies did not include drinking a sip from the river, but they should have.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVintyri
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2015
     
    Posted By: ShessarYou can't change the laws of physics. Water flows down hill. They are right, you know.


    Hmmm ... well ... yes. However, before describing how the laws of physics work, one needs to know what they are. Then one can understand why rivers don't always flow downhill. It's all a question of whether gravity is countered by a greater force. That is why some rivers in oceanic coastal areas flow downhill most of the time but uphill in some places some of the time, when the ocean tide is high. They're even some that flow uphill at high tide over a surprising distance.

    So it goes.
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2015
     
    There are rivers in Western Australia that do this (I am Australian, BTW)
    •  
      CommentAuthorQuenten
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2015 edited
     
    Shessar, which rivers in particular bother you? We could no doubt gain useful discussion if we had concrete examples (bearing in mind that this is a very old, hallowed and even sacred fantasy world map). We could come up with real world reasons/examples to explain the 'problem' rivers, and also fantasy solutions (like a hot desert in Mystara where it should not have been, explained by Fire elemental magic.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2015
     
    The Roman Empire used hydrodynamics to get water uphill to where they wanted it.
  8.  
    Posted By: JimPThe Roman Empire used hydrodynamics to get water uphill to where they wanted it.

    True. And might some of the "rivers" in the Flanaess actually be ancient elvish or Flan irrigation ditches?
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2015
     
    Of course. Ancient Discoveries...
    • CommentAuthorstrike277
    • CommentTimeMar 24th 2016
     
    Can you, or someone, give a step by step on how you did the water contours? I down loaded the fcw and looked at it. But I can't figure it out. I've also looked for a tutorial on it, but wasn't able to find one. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeMar 25th 2016 edited
     
    I have different sheets for each contour.

    bottom sea
    5000 feet sea
    2000 feet sea
    shallows
    land

    So the darkest blue bitmap fill would go on the bottom sheet and shallows would have the lightest bitmap fill.

    The land is then drawn on the land sheet.

    That would be the basics of it. Note that I don't use effects.
    • CommentAuthorstrike277
    • CommentTimeMar 31st 2016
     
    Jim,
    Do you do these from scratch? Or do you use them in conjunction with the default water background?
    • CommentAuthorLadieStorm
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2016
     
    lol... You know... I was one that got caught up in the 'great river debate' on both sites. Vintyri, I saw your post there, and LOVED it. A very nice, polite, but straight forward 'in your face' way of telling people to 'shut up and let the mappers make their maps'. One of the things in my original Larysia maps, is that most/all of my rivers connect to each other within each continent.

    My reasoning was very simple an distinct.... the connections, and some of the flows.... were man made. Meaning that as the war torn, god devastated world tried to re-populate and rebuild, they diverted rivers and streams to where they were needed, or did the most good. We do things like that in the real world all the time. If I remember correctly, wasn't the Panama Canal created this way?

    I think I politely thanked them and told them it was something I would 'know' for next time... and I have kept it in mind... but when I do get to remaking my Larysia maps... I intend to leave my 'screwed up' rivers just as they are :)
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2016 edited
     
  9.  
    Thank You so much, map is amazing. This is my first post here, I am Milos Gulan, from Montenegro Europe. Just got CC3 in Humble Bundle pack, lots of it but I hope I will get the rest eventualy. Just amazing after installation. I hope I will find my way around here, this is my first post on the forum. I should try looking for introduction thread. Thanks again!
    • CommentAuthorWyvern
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2020 edited
     
    Welcome Milos!

    This links you to the "introduce yourself" topic, in case you're still looking. There are a LOT of posts on the Forum here!
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2020
     
    The first link leads to my site, where the tempatles are gone. My apologies. I'll look for them and add them back to my site.
    • CommentAuthorJimP
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2020 edited
     
    Here is one of my maps, not as good as hers. I'll attach the fcw as well.

    I put her bitmap fills in: C:\Profantasy\CC3Plus\Bitmaps\Tiles\custom on my computer. Those are the 200x200, 500x500 and the 2000x2000 folders.
    • CommentAuthorBuzzard
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Shessar,

    Thanks for sharing your CC3+ file of your Greyhawk map! That was incredibly helpful to me in my efforts to customize and re-brew my campaign world. I really appreciate your kindness and your work at updating the older map into this style. I started with your beautiful terrain and then reworked the map in Illustrator for the player's map for my parody of the World of Greyhawk called Urth. I'm really happy with the results.

    Thanks again!!
      Urth Player Map v1b zoom.jpg