CC3+ map integration with Fantasy Grounds - opportunity

seycyrus · May 2020

Good afternoon and thanks for the tutorial videos. It's amazing the insight you can get by watching someone do something that you think you already know how to do. Even the questions from the other viewers are beneficial.

Now back to the title of this post.

Fantasy Grounds is one of the top virtual table top systems available.

Fantasy Grounds is pretty close to launching their Unity version, which among other cool benefits, will allow for dynamic line of sight.

I was wondering if anyone here (Profantasy or users) had any ideas on how CC+ can be used to create maps that would easily integrate into the dynamic line of sight feature on FG?

I haven't had the time to look into it myself and would appreciate any feedback that might be offered. If it is something that could be automated on the CC3+ end, I would think that it would be a potential draw to all the new customers that Fantasy Grounds is pulling in to learn CC3+.

Monsen · May 2020

I guess it will be similar to my approach from this blog article.

Granted, that article is about MapTool, not FG, and I talk about it in the relation to being able to hide/show elements, although the same approach of doing partial exports will also be the way to go for the dynamic line of sight in MT since you need some way of separating "things" from the background, I guess the feature will work similar in FG.

JimP · May 2020

I have Epic Table, but it seems to me just make sure that you have the correct battle map size for the VTT you want to use.

Epic Table isn't game specific. From what I know about FG, one of my relatives uses it, game specific materials have to be written for it, a file whose name I have no idea what it is.

seycyrus · May 2020

@JimP The new version of FG will have greatly expanded memory capabilities, and therefore "correct battle map size will" not be as much of an issue. That is the case in the current version, however. Thanks.

@monsen I believe the terminology that is being used is "occluders" that delineate what blocks line of sight, and therefore, by omission, what does not. I know that there are some advanced users of both CC3+ and FG on these forums, and I was wanting to see what the current train of thought might be about the implementation of dynamic line of sight on CC3+ created maps.

Here is a little video demonstrating the feature,

EDIT: @monsen. I understand now. I think you actually answered my question. You are saying that the occluders would be exported separately. Ok, I think that makes sense.

Now. I am exposing my ignorance about the way CC3+ works, and what a symbol represents (and is represented by), but would it be possible to ... autotrace a tree (for example) with a polygon that could be exported to the Occluder "layer"? Even if the trace was just a circle?

Monsen · May 2020

Well, CC3+ do have the TRACED command, that should be able to automatically trace the outline of most symbols and make polygons from it. So yes.

Looked at the video, and it looked quite nice. I've been using dynamic line of sight in MT for years, but it do look what they have coming up in FG is a tad more advanced, and much easier to use.

@JimP: Seems like the people at Epic Table are ProFantasy users. Several of their example screenshots contained maps that were clearly made with DD3.

seycyrus · May 2020

The TRACED command looks very interesting, but I can't seem to find any documentation on it in either the manual or the TOUM.

I see 4 fields that can be changed.

"Simplify Distance" seems to reduce the number of nodes, which I think would be necessary if one were using this command to create occluders for dozens of trees.

Setting "Offset Distance" to a negative number also reduces the number of nodes and could also be very useful if one wanted to create the effect of only the tree trunks blocking line of sight.

"Smoothing Distance" apparently smooths the nodes, but didn't seem to reduce the number of nodes. Perhaps I was not ambitious enough with the values.

"Work Image Resolution" is set to a default of 2048, but I did not mess with this. I assume that lower the number to lower powers of 2 would be useful?

Monsen · May 2020

Check the first part of this blog entry.

The command is too new to have made it into the documentation.

seycyrus · May 2020

Thank you for your time Monsen.

seycyrus · May 2020

Monsen, can I have permission to use that VTTlayers map, as a working example of trying to auto generate occluders, over on the Fantasy Grounds site?

kevbeck43 · May 2020

Seycyrus, I am under the impression that you are asking whether or not we can do something with maps to make it easier to include occluders in Fantasy Grounds.

I have created a small map pack using CSUAC symbols and a base battlemap I made for forest encounters. I have created occluders (I can make the symbols block line of site) in my own fantasy grounds maps.

Is this the process you are going to outline in your video? If so I was planning on doing my own video this weekend and posting it on both sites. I don't know if you were going to do the same thing or not but if that sounds like what you are going to do I won't make my own video.

Also this is a video that Phillip Greig (Zaccheus) on Fantasy Grounds, did regarding line of sight creation in Unity. I don't know if this will help you or not...

Monsen · May 2020

@seycyrus, Sure, feel free to use the map.

kevbeck43 · May 2020

Posted By: MonsenCheck the first part of thisblog entry.

The command is too new to have made it into the documentation.

Monsen,

Can I take a map of say England, import it into profantasy, trace it using profantasy elements, and then work an overland style on top of that? Is that what the tool allows you to do or am I wrong?

Monsen · May 2020

Yes. That is basically what I did with Iceland in that blog, and England in this blog. Note that TRACED works with the outline though, so you would get the shape of the land, not interior details like height contours and the thing.

kevbeck43 · May 2020

Posted By: MonsenYes. That is basically what I did with Iceland inthat blog, and England inthis blog. Note that TRACED works with the outline though, so you would get the shape of the land, not interior details like height contours and the thing.

Understood Monsen. Thanks!

seycyrus · May 2020

Posted By: kevbeck43...

Is this the process you are going to outline in your video? If so I was planning on doing my own video this weekend and posting it on both sites.

Kevback, I do not have the material to make a video, nor do I have the skillz. I am simply trying to figure things out. I thank you for your efforts. I think it should be possible to automate a lot of work, but am not certain.

LordEntrails · May 2020

Just to make sure everyone is aware, the occluders in FGU are defined as polygon node points in XML. So they need to be exported in a similar manner, not as image files. (i.e LOS occluders are different than image masks, in FGU)

I envision this as being some sort of property added to symbols, where we are able to include a polygon layer that includes the includer type and nodes. Then when exporting, it would create an xml file that could be read into FGU with the following tool; https://fantasygroundsunity.atlassian.net/wiki/spaces/FGU/pages/260440084/Developer+Guide+-+Extracting+LOS+Data+for+Modules and with the steps starting close to the section "Extract the XML for your LOS Data".

So, unless there is a way to export node data for a sheet or layer from CC3+, I'm not sure how we would approach this. Am I wrong in thinking this would need an added capability in CC3+ to create, store, and export this data? Then we could create and share this xml data for the various CC3+ assets (or give them to PF to include).

For note, two other mapping programs have already implemented occluder export for FGU, Arkenforge? and DungeonFog?

Note, this is a tool I would pay for.

Monsen · May 2020

I don't think it can be done automatically straight out of the box. But with the TRACED tool in CC3+, you can generate a polygon from any entity, and the nodes of this entity is available through the list command, so it should be possible to handle this programatically, even if it is not a single-click solution.

LordEntrails · May 2020

In case anyone does try to look at this, the individual occluder types and what they look like are defined here; https://www.fantasygrounds.com/forums/showthread.php?56422-Documentation-for-XML-format-for-LOS-maps&p=513534&viewfull=1#post513534

Normal Door

<occluder>
<id>1</id>
<points>-141.9,244.1,-103.7,244.1,-103.7,254.2,-141.9,254.2</points>
<door>true</door>
<close>true</close>
<closedpolygon>true</closedpolygon>
</occluder>

Secret Door

<occluder>
<id>23</id>
<points>-1212.3,-436.6,-1179.7,-470.8,-1172.7,-463.7,-1205.7,-430.7,-1212.3,-436.6</points>
<secret>true</secret>
<closedpolygon>true</closedpolygon>
</occluder>

Wall

<occluder>
<id>28</id>
<points>1900,1050.2,1857.2,1010.2,1855.9,936.7,1846.9,936.7</points>
</occluder>

Terrain

<occluder>
<id>33</id>
<points>702.2,674.1,706.4,661.2,717.3,653.2,730.9,653.2,741.8,661.2,746,674.1,741.8,687,730.9,694.9,717.3,694.9,706.4,687,702.2,674.1</points>
<terrain>true</terrain>
<close>true</close>
<closedpolygon>true</closedpolygon>
</occluder>

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CC3+ map integration with Fantasy Grounds - opportunity

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