Looking for how docks were actually done in the 11th-12th century

kevbeck43 · April 2020

We don't have a discussion forum on here for medieval history but this relates to a map I am doing so...

I have heard that many times that docks were nothing more than a ship docking in a deep water bay and sending in boats to the shore for cargo delivery. I have also heard that some cities had enclosed docks for ships coming in. I have placed docks in my watabou cities map but they are like pier docks jutting out from the shore. Did these even exist during the middle ages?

Loopysue · April 2020

Lighterage was used to unload cogs in the Thames during Roman times.

That's the word for when smaller boats take the load to the shore. I picked that up from this document, which might have other useful information, such as the fact that there were docks - presumably for the lighterage. In other words docks for the smaller boats bringing the load in as I interpret it.

http://www.pla.co.uk/Port-Trade/History-of-the-Port-of-London-pre-1908

mike robel · April 2020

A view of ancient Carthage and its Harbor as it was thought to look. Warships were in the circular "barn" and merchant ships docked in the rectangular portion.

Someone here could probably do a spectacular rendering of it.

Monsen · April 2020

I had a look at a video reconstructing my hometown Bergen in the 14th century, and it does clearly show piers sticking into the water. It is not the focus of the video, but you'll notice them several places. They're not the huge constructs we often like to put in our fantasy cities though, they seem to basically just stick far enough out for one ship to dock alongside them, and most of the piers was along the coast, not sticking out into the water.

My home town was an important harbor and trade town at the time, so it should be somewhat representative of what they did.
The video is a reconstruction based by a local history coalition, including among others the local university, and is based upon archeological finds and other historical evidence, like texts and paintings. Of course, as with any video, I am sure that there are some blanks they just filled in, but it was made by people with a high interest in getting this right, but I can't claim that everything is 100% accurate, so this isn't directly proof.

https://vimeo.com/365536639

mike robel · April 2020

Way cool Monsen. My wife really liked it. As well as the one with the submarine pens.

Loopysue · April 2020

I found it really interesting as well. I noticed how some of the roads were partly 'paved' with logs. I think that must be a purely Scandinavian thing? I don't think I've see that in any English reconstruction. Maybe we didn't have quite so many fast growing trees? Once you cut an oak down it takes a couple of centuries for it to grow back again.

mike robel · April 2020

I wouldn't be surprised if you had them. They're called corduroy roads. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Corduroy_road usually in swampy areas or in wet weather when the roads have been destroyed by other traffic or water.

kevbeck43 · April 2020

Monsen that video was perfect. I know exactly how I'm going to do my docks now. A main dock on the shoreline with docks jutting out at various places just far enough to have a single ship dock there. That will be for my cities. The villages and smaller towns will be using Lighterage. Thanks!

P.S. I think that video should be stickied. It gives a great view of what a medieval town might look like. It reminds me of the Witcher Wild Hunt in a way although I'm sure there was plenty of artistic license taken in that game. If nothing else it provides inspiration and a creative spark!

DaltonSpence · April 2020

A little more specific information about these docks (such as typical widths and lengths) would be helpful. I'd like to create some custom dock symbols and could use some suggestions about the bitmap fills to use. (Rock? Wooden planks?)

kevbeck43 · April 2020

The docks that I saw in the video and other pictures I have seen are docks made from wood. I think there was very little use of stone for docks during the period. I would say that if you used wooden planks for your symbols you would be closest to being accurate historically. I believe if stone was used it would be for the parts of the docks that were underwater but I could be wrong. The only reason I say underwater is because wood rots over time.

JimP · April 2020

The Romans had poured concrete that hardened underwater; however, this method was lost for centuries.

So I say wood as well.

Loopysue · April 2020

Mike - Not seen corduroy roads in any UK reconstruction. I think what applies to Scandinavia may also have applied in many other parts of the world except the UK. We don't have enormous great forests of spruce, fir and pine. We have deciduous trees that take about 5 x as long to mature. Wood wasn't a fast renewable resource over here like it might have been in other countries. We seem to have managed with ancient mud tracks until the Romans arrived and started building roads of stone.

mike robel · April 2020

I see. Thanks for that insight. I have taken my tank over a Roman road that had not been modified appreciably since it was laid down. It was a strange feeling.

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Looking for how docks were actually done in the 11th-12th century

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