However many, they aren't looking so great at the moment. I'm having a few issues with my drawing tablet creating jolts in things that I never drew in them when I draw anything faster than a snail's pace. This could take several more days to get right.
Sue, I'm a little hazy here as to exactly what the Marsh fill is. I'd thought it was probably just the water and brown reedy shoreline being drawn over a stretch of pasture, but your comment about the grassy tufts having to match the pasture suggests it's actually the whole thing as shown in your sample square swatches - blue water, brown shoreline and green land. Is that right?
Your newer sample certainly seems a lot closer to that comparison piece from the original map, though as we've commented repeatedly before, I imagine there's quite a range of variants on others of the Ferraris maps.
For the "scratchy old quill" lines, fiddling about with GIMP at times, I've sometimes found using the eraser option with a smaller line thickness applied to the edges of previously-drawn black lines can sometimes give a modest impression of this effect. It can be hit and miss though, and would entail a lot of work to try something similar for what you need (I'm guessing a drawing tablet would be essentially a superior mechanism than GIMP in making this suggestion!).
The marsh fill is as seen in the example for the most part, though there are as you suspected a lot of variations. That example is one of the most detailed I could find. There is also a huge range of scales - some of the marshes being barely recognisable by way of being so tiny that all you can really see is the dark squiggly bit that is the marginal mud around the reeds.
However, It is a fill in its own right because there are clearly defined borders between this conglomerate fill and anything else around it. I think the reason it is so hard to envisage using this as an actual fill is because we are just used to textures having much smaller internal details than this one does. As you can see from the image below there is a repeating pattern, but hopefully it won't be too distracting because I've contorted it a whole lot more than is apparent on the map.
Though it is a good idea to use an eraser for the scratchy lines it would be impractical to do so for this piece. You have, however, given me an idea about using one of the filters in Krita to knock out random parts of these little lines - thanks :)
Maybe I will do another version with a smaller scale after I have finished this one, but I don't know yet. I need to make a new example map to be able to use all the fills in context together to see if they really work with each other. There are only a very small number of all the available fills used in the St Denis map.
Other things are happening with the Ferraris style.
Imagine a map carefully drawn 250 years ago and used by Napoleon's generals out in the field of battle. Some parts were never used and were stowed away very carefully in the dark and have gone yellow with age, but they are still relatively clean (1). Then there are the parts that were used and got dirty, but the yellowing of the paper was balanced by the bleaching effect of being exposed to daylight (2). Then there are the parts that were used but then put up on display for many years as some rich man's dinner talking point. These are dirty from the field of battle, but they are also quite badly faded and looking rather blue (3).
All these renders are from the same example map, but with different effects (and an additional dirt sheet).
Hah. I love this. I still have my 1:10000 scale map of Germany I used as an LT in the 11th Armored Cavalry Regiment. There are some parts which are almost pristine and others where the map is almost worn through with use. You haven't lived until you have had to take your map out of your map case, refold it, put it back in, then place new operational graphics on it. In a rain or sleet storm. In a tank. At night. With the wind blowing. And you can only use red light. The map when totally unfolded was the size of my living room. The map case was only about 1.5 meters square.
I haven't ever been on a battle field, but I had to explain why the original we can view online is so highly variable in colour and quality. I may not have taken these effects far enough, but I am certain that everyone will be able to build on the basics that will be in the annual
Thanks for those Marsh updates Sue - and to know I may have helped a tiny bit with the scratchy lines...
I'd guessed the complete Marsh fill would have to be what we'd call in other contexts geomorphic to get the water channels to match up edge to edge, but it's nice to see how you've achieved that. Looking at some of the samples you've shown (or that featured in the key sample swatches previously), it's obvious how problematic coming up with a "compromise" version will have been, and I think you've done pretty darned well with it!
Presumably, if someone wished to recreate that "braided stream marsh" look shown in your most recent CC3+ Ferraris Legend graphic earlier in this topic (posted five days before this note), it would be possible to do so manually by superimposing stream lines onto some pasture fill, then adding brown-mud edges (I don't think that sample swatch showed any reed symbols, but I imagine these could be added by hand if required too). Clearly this would be quite a bit of work, but it would add much flexibility to the whole (for river deltas, for instance), without preventing quicker marsh drawing using your standard Marsh fill.
Weird to see the "lollipop" tree symbols with such nice sharp shadows (and a green glow around them) on your recent 1-2-3 map-weathering sample! Not effects intended for the final maps, I'd expect...
Mike's comments took me back to my geology field mapping days - paper maps outdoors in all weathers with pencil scribbles all over them that later had to be translated into something Usable By Others. Plus without the precipitation problems, also quite similar to field mapping of meteor (= shooting-star) tracks onto gnomonic projection star maps at night (same red light to avoid losing your dark adaptation, but needing clear skies, so only rarely raining - yes, that is possible, unfortunately, especially when there are gales...).
Hmmm. Yes, I can see the problem with the edges of a marsh. Until now I had been thinking only of the way the marsh would bind with existing meadow fills, not butting up to rivers and such. I may have to rethink this marsh thing altogether - maybe make symbols instead - little islands you can paste... Yes - more work.
The trees have shadows on the original. Those are part of the symbol right now. And I forgot all about the green glow! LOL! That was from an earlier draft and got missed when I was editing effects.
I have also carried out chain surveys at college - one quite notable occasion was when our tutor decided to take the group to Studland beach and do a chain survey of the beach profile in several places along the beach, on what turned out to be the hottest day of the year. The surface of the sand was 45 degrees C, and... he claimed he didn't know about this... it turned out to be a nudist hang out. So there we were, sweltering in our usual day clothes, and trying not to look at them while they were staring at us with open fascination. What were we doing? Why were we doing it?
Ah yes... memories!
But anyway - I digress. I decided to have a day off from working on that marsh fill and do some compasses instead. I looked at lots of 18th century compasses online and came up with this. (Sorry its a bit wide) They're quite simple, and there's nothing on the Ferraris map to copy, but I thought they might do for anyone wanting a pseudo-period compass to go with their map.
Hadn't noticed the tree shadows on the map; interesting they'd added these as well.
Ah, beach profile mapping... Weird time to be doing such though, Sue. Mine was done either in the early winter, usually with a gale and so much spray and snow you could neither see nor stand upright ("You mean the cliff-line was actually below sea level?"), or more rarely in early summer when the place was still deserted. Helps to be on the North Sea coast too, where going under-clad risks hypothermia even in midsummer - the water's peak late summer temperature is about 13°C...
I hadn't thought of compasses as being Christmassy, but I suppose they are if they happen to be 18th century style compasses. Most of them were star-shaped like these I've made. A lot of them were far more elaborate with fleur-de-lys and all kinds of designs drawn on the coloured parts, but I think that will have to be a project for a different day.
Some of the cartographers just drew a horizontal line out from the base of the tree to the right, but some of them carefully painted little round shadows on every single last one of them. It's most noticeable in the orchards.
We were also doing the biodiversity, which meant summer was the best time. You know the routine - put the metre square grid thing down on the ground and then identify, name, and work out the percentage coverage of all the plant and animal species in the square, then move another 5m along the laid out chain and do the same again, and so on all the way along the 400m section line... I seem to remember that once the nudists had cleared off for fear of getting a grid square plonked down on them we decided it really was far too hot, that we had discovered far too many red ant nests, and then went for a series of 'paddles' up to our necks in our undies to get rid of that itchy feeling that seeing ants in great numbers can give you.
I used to be able to recite the compass points names of 32 points. I've been told, last century and no idea how accurate the claim was, a helmsman in sailing days of yore had to know 64 named compass points.
So much easier these days, you only have to remember the numbers between 0 and 359. At least, those where the only one I needed last time I was at the helm of a ship (which admittedly is a long time ago, was back in my navy days [Which, contrary to the name of the service, was spent mostly on land])
Regarding Red Light. It is very interesting. Roads on military map can be red/black/white (with black edges), red/white sections, and so on. Under Red light, they vanish.
If you use a red permanent marker or red grease pencil to mark your route, they vanish too. If you use, oh, Yellow, it looks white. So black is your friend.
Then we went to Blue Light because it was less likely to be seen with passive image intensifiers, so then what happens, the rivers/streams/water obstacles all vanish. Blue was also said to not mess with your night vision.
I found it easier to find my tanks with blue interior light than with red interior light.
Thermal sights don't help you read a map and I never quite got the hang of reading one with night vision goggles.
All of which mostly has nothing to do with map reading.
Incidentally Sue, I only really had to read a map on training exercises. I was in Desert Storm, but worked in a 5 ton expandable van in the Division Command Post where we had more room (and we had the maps mounted on panels that we velcroed on the back to stick them on the wall. That we could move sections as the battle moved. I didn't have to navigate the vehicle either, nor did I have my own map. But we did have GPS, which was fortunate. The Van was also air-conditioned, not for us but for the radios and computers. I didn't let anyone use the air till the war started. It was actually relatively cool and it rained a lot during the actual fight.
Well, we seem to have successfully hijacked this thread away from Atlas Ferraris (I'm sure only temporarily!)
If anyone's interested in pursuing the sailing aspect further, I came across this 2005 paper on the ResearchGate website (free PDF download), The Sailings: The Mathematics of Eighteenth Century Navigation in the American Colonies. There's a mention in that (page 4) that each of the 32 points of the compass could be further subdivided into quarters, which I suppose would give 128 directions. Whether they were always named - even to the full set of Sue's 32 - seems less certain from this description at least.
Red light's used a lot in visual astronomy (and other places) where you still need to see what you're doing in the dark, because the dark-adapted eye is remarkably insensitive to red light. Blue light's a great way to destroy your night vision, however, because the dark-adapted eye is most sensitive to blue-green light, so I'm not sure who advised you about blue light Mike!
I did a number of trials around twenty years ago for what kind of coloured star charts would work better using red light, because that was the point we were starting to put a lot of such items online. Previously, we'd relied on black-and-white charts, which of course work fine, but everybody wanted pretty colours for the Internet, charts which could be downloaded and printed-off for outdoor use at night. A mid-blue sky background with coloured star circles works quite well, as visual bright star colours are chiefly white, yellow or orange, which all continue to show sufficient contrast under dim red light in this case, though it was interesting to me to see the different intensities different shades would give at times. Also irritating when colours that looked good on-screen vanished under the red light, just as Mike described...
About seeing things at night I remember reading an article about night policing, where one of the policewomen had discovered that instead of trying to see her ordinary notebook by whatever light was available it was far easier to use a pad of fluorescent paper and write on it in black.
The orange and green one, Quenten, is the original. I chose those colours because the colour palette available to cartographers back then was decidedly rather limited - mainly ochre (reds, oranges, yellows) and various shades of green earth (clay coloured by iron oxide, magnesium, aluminium silicate, or potassium). Blue pigment was known by then, but it was still a very rare and rather expensive commodity because it was made by grinding lapis lazuli to dust. This, to me, explains why the water bodies on the Ferraris map are simply the bluest of the available and much cheaper greens. I am sure that if the cartographers had not been regarded as mere servants to the cause they might have been given the expensive lapis lazuli paint or ink to do the job, and we would have a much more colourful map today.
However - as many artists eventually discover by accident, a limited palette is actually better to work with than one where you can pick from any imaginable shade. It is the reason the Ferraris map is so attractive - why it's colours feel so harmonious.
Mike - the ability to read a map properly could one day save your life. It worries me quite a bit that so many people these days rely so heavily on their phone telling them they are 5 minutes walk from X, rather than bothering to look at a map before they set out so that they don't need the phone to nanny them like that. If half our communications satellites are fried by a solar flare one day they are the ones who will be completely lost with no idea of how to get to somewhere where they will at least know where they are.
Yes. My wife always laughs because when we set out on a cross country trip I get the paper maps out, fold them so the route is visible with the least manipulation, sometimes highlight the route, and update it. I also use the GPS, but mostly for convenience inside a city when trying to navigate the streets. For most trips, I don't need to use them, but I have been known to refer to them from time to time. But this is a lot different than reading the map in a military operation where you are not necessarily on a road.
I was wondering why all the water looked green to me on the map samples you are using. Now I know. Interesting. I never knew that problem existed. Cool beans, as I say, some times.
And now back to your excellent craftsmanship (womanship?)
Map reading is much more fun than just being told where you are to within the nearest metre without even trying to work it out for yourself. Obviously it would be insane to cross the Atlantic without any modern navigation equipment, but I've done reasonably long voyages using traditional equipment. A sextant is an amazingly accurate piece of kit - as long as your time piece is equally accurate!
Does anyone know if it's possible to make a compound bitmap symbol where different bitmap elements are on different sheets?
It's one way I could cure the marsh problem highlighted by Wyvern.
I can make little marsh islands as symbols, but because of the muddy border you wouldn't be able to paste them into groups of overlapping islands, unless... the muddy margin was an a sheet below the sheet where the island was being pasted.
Posted By: LoopysueDoes anyone know if it's possible to make a compound bitmap symbol where different bitmap elements are on different sheets?
Yes. I was planning to talk about that in an upcoming blog article, but basically, what you need is to set the symbol option 'Convert Line Style Names to Sheets', and then assign different line styles to different entities in the symbol. When the symbol is placed, it will split into multiple symbols, the parts being placed on the sheets matching the line style name.
So I will be drawing the islands in CC3 using the fills I've made and the special lines, then creating them by using Define Symbol? And I'm to look out for that checkbox?
Some of the reeds around the edge are already symbols. Does that matter? Or should I leave them out and ask users to place them manually after the marsh islands have been pasted?
EDIT: Actually, I will have to leave them out or they will appear in odd places where the islands may be pasted overlapping each other.
Interesting about the green-blue water Sue, though maybe they could have used Prussian Blue (available from circa 1724), or possibly Azurite (an important medieval blue pigment, but which fell out of favour after Prussian Blue came in). Ultramarine from lapis lazuli is though a far superior blue!
If you need some examples of multi-sheet symbols to see better how actual ones operate, I recall the hill symbols from the very first Annual issue, the Mercator style, were of this kind - probably many others besides, but they're the ones I remember, because I spent ages playing around with the sheet effects with these very early on in my CC3 Learning Time (i.e. before CC3+ appeared!).
Thanks again, Remy I will experiment later today and see what I can come up with.
Wyvern - It's not very obvious from the little swatches on those two webpages (especially since the lapis swatch looks just as green as they do) but Prussian and Azurite blues are both fairly green, and only look bluish at maximum concentrations - Azurite in particular is pretty much what I would call blue-green compared to lapis, and just seems to go greener as you dilute it for the kind of colour wash you would need to do on a map like this. Looking at the original map I would say that the materials budget was probably not large enough to afford lapis/ultramarine, though you may be right about the Azurite where the map is at it's bluest.
If I have two instances of CC3 open at the same time and I'm working on both of them, what happens when they respectively autosave? Do they alternately overwrite each other's autosave file?
Comments
Your newer sample certainly seems a lot closer to that comparison piece from the original map, though as we've commented repeatedly before, I imagine there's quite a range of variants on others of the Ferraris maps.
For the "scratchy old quill" lines, fiddling about with GIMP at times, I've sometimes found using the eraser option with a smaller line thickness applied to the edges of previously-drawn black lines can sometimes give a modest impression of this effect. It can be hit and miss though, and would entail a lot of work to try something similar for what you need (I'm guessing a drawing tablet would be essentially a superior mechanism than GIMP in making this suggestion!).
However, It is a fill in its own right because there are clearly defined borders between this conglomerate fill and anything else around it. I think the reason it is so hard to envisage using this as an actual fill is because we are just used to textures having much smaller internal details than this one does. As you can see from the image below there is a repeating pattern, but hopefully it won't be too distracting because I've contorted it a whole lot more than is apparent on the map.
Though it is a good idea to use an eraser for the scratchy lines it would be impractical to do so for this piece. You have, however, given me an idea about using one of the filters in Krita to knock out random parts of these little lines - thanks :)
Imagine a map carefully drawn 250 years ago and used by Napoleon's generals out in the field of battle. Some parts were never used and were stowed away very carefully in the dark and have gone yellow with age, but they are still relatively clean (1). Then there are the parts that were used and got dirty, but the yellowing of the paper was balanced by the bleaching effect of being exposed to daylight (2). Then there are the parts that were used but then put up on display for many years as some rich man's dinner talking point. These are dirty from the field of battle, but they are also quite badly faded and looking rather blue (3).
All these renders are from the same example map, but with different effects (and an additional dirt sheet).
[Image_13470]
I haven't ever been on a battle field, but I had to explain why the original we can view online is so highly variable in colour and quality. I may not have taken these effects far enough, but I am certain that everyone will be able to build on the basics that will be in the annual
I'd guessed the complete Marsh fill would have to be what we'd call in other contexts geomorphic to get the water channels to match up edge to edge, but it's nice to see how you've achieved that. Looking at some of the samples you've shown (or that featured in the key sample swatches previously), it's obvious how problematic coming up with a "compromise" version will have been, and I think you've done pretty darned well with it!
Presumably, if someone wished to recreate that "braided stream marsh" look shown in your most recent CC3+ Ferraris Legend graphic earlier in this topic (posted five days before this note), it would be possible to do so manually by superimposing stream lines onto some pasture fill, then adding brown-mud edges (I don't think that sample swatch showed any reed symbols, but I imagine these could be added by hand if required too). Clearly this would be quite a bit of work, but it would add much flexibility to the whole (for river deltas, for instance), without preventing quicker marsh drawing using your standard Marsh fill.
Weird to see the "lollipop" tree symbols with such nice sharp shadows (and a green glow around them) on your recent 1-2-3 map-weathering sample! Not effects intended for the final maps, I'd expect...
Mike's comments took me back to my geology field mapping days - paper maps outdoors in all weathers with pencil scribbles all over them that later had to be translated into something Usable By Others. Plus without the precipitation problems, also quite similar to field mapping of meteor (= shooting-star) tracks onto gnomonic projection star maps at night (same red light to avoid losing your dark adaptation, but needing clear skies, so only rarely raining - yes, that is possible, unfortunately, especially when there are gales...).
The trees have shadows on the original. Those are part of the symbol right now. And I forgot all about the green glow! LOL! That was from an earlier draft and got missed when I was editing effects.
I have also carried out chain surveys at college - one quite notable occasion was when our tutor decided to take the group to Studland beach and do a chain survey of the beach profile in several places along the beach, on what turned out to be the hottest day of the year. The surface of the sand was 45 degrees C, and... he claimed he didn't know about this... it turned out to be a nudist hang out. So there we were, sweltering in our usual day clothes, and trying not to look at them while they were staring at us with open fascination. What were we doing? Why were we doing it?
Ah yes... memories!
But anyway - I digress. I decided to have a day off from working on that marsh fill and do some compasses instead. I looked at lots of 18th century compasses online and came up with this. (Sorry its a bit wide) They're quite simple, and there's nothing on the Ferraris map to copy, but I thought they might do for anyone wanting a pseudo-period compass to go with their map.
[Image_13472]
Hadn't noticed the tree shadows on the map; interesting they'd added these as well.
Ah, beach profile mapping... Weird time to be doing such though, Sue. Mine was done either in the early winter, usually with a gale and so much spray and snow you could neither see nor stand upright ("You mean the cliff-line was actually below sea level?"), or more rarely in early summer when the place was still deserted. Helps to be on the North Sea coast too, where going under-clad risks hypothermia even in midsummer - the water's peak late summer temperature is about 13°C...
Some of the cartographers just drew a horizontal line out from the base of the tree to the right, but some of them carefully painted little round shadows on every single last one of them. It's most noticeable in the orchards.
We were also doing the biodiversity, which meant summer was the best time. You know the routine - put the metre square grid thing down on the ground and then identify, name, and work out the percentage coverage of all the plant and animal species in the square, then move another 5m along the laid out chain and do the same again, and so on all the way along the 400m section line... I seem to remember that once the nudists had cleared off for fear of getting a grid square plonked down on them we decided it really was far too hot, that we had discovered far too many red ant nests, and then went for a series of 'paddles' up to our necks in our undies to get rid of that itchy feeling that seeing ants in great numbers can give you.
I see the one above has 32 named points.
I couldn't 'box the compass' if my life depended on it.
If you use a red permanent marker or red grease pencil to mark your route, they vanish too. If you use, oh, Yellow, it looks white. So black is your friend.
Then we went to Blue Light because it was less likely to be seen with passive image intensifiers, so then what happens, the rivers/streams/water obstacles all vanish. Blue was also said to not mess with your night vision.
I found it easier to find my tanks with blue interior light than with red interior light.
Thermal sights don't help you read a map and I never quite got the hang of reading one with night vision goggles.
All of which mostly has nothing to do with map reading.
Incidentally Sue, I only really had to read a map on training exercises. I was in Desert Storm, but worked in a 5 ton expandable van in the Division Command Post where we had more room (and we had the maps mounted on panels that we velcroed on the back to stick them on the wall. That we could move sections as the battle moved. I didn't have to navigate the vehicle either, nor did I have my own map. But we did have GPS, which was fortunate. The Van was also air-conditioned, not for us but for the radios and computers. I didn't let anyone use the air till the war started. It was actually relatively cool and it rained a lot during the actual fight.
If anyone's interested in pursuing the sailing aspect further, I came across this 2005 paper on the ResearchGate website (free PDF download), The Sailings: The Mathematics of Eighteenth Century Navigation in the American Colonies. There's a mention in that (page 4) that each of the 32 points of the compass could be further subdivided into quarters, which I suppose would give 128 directions. Whether they were always named - even to the full set of Sue's 32 - seems less certain from this description at least.
Red light's used a lot in visual astronomy (and other places) where you still need to see what you're doing in the dark, because the dark-adapted eye is remarkably insensitive to red light. Blue light's a great way to destroy your night vision, however, because the dark-adapted eye is most sensitive to blue-green light, so I'm not sure who advised you about blue light Mike!
I did a number of trials around twenty years ago for what kind of coloured star charts would work better using red light, because that was the point we were starting to put a lot of such items online. Previously, we'd relied on black-and-white charts, which of course work fine, but everybody wanted pretty colours for the Internet, charts which could be downloaded and printed-off for outdoor use at night. A mid-blue sky background with coloured star circles works quite well, as visual bright star colours are chiefly white, yellow or orange, which all continue to show sufficient contrast under dim red light in this case, though it was interesting to me to see the different intensities different shades would give at times. Also irritating when colours that looked good on-screen vanished under the red light, just as Mike described...
The orange and green one, Quenten, is the original. I chose those colours because the colour palette available to cartographers back then was decidedly rather limited - mainly ochre (reds, oranges, yellows) and various shades of green earth (clay coloured by iron oxide, magnesium, aluminium silicate, or potassium). Blue pigment was known by then, but it was still a very rare and rather expensive commodity because it was made by grinding lapis lazuli to dust. This, to me, explains why the water bodies on the Ferraris map are simply the bluest of the available and much cheaper greens. I am sure that if the cartographers had not been regarded as mere servants to the cause they might have been given the expensive lapis lazuli paint or ink to do the job, and we would have a much more colourful map today.
However - as many artists eventually discover by accident, a limited palette is actually better to work with than one where you can pick from any imaginable shade. It is the reason the Ferraris map is so attractive - why it's colours feel so harmonious.
Mike - the ability to read a map properly could one day save your life. It worries me quite a bit that so many people these days rely so heavily on their phone telling them they are 5 minutes walk from X, rather than bothering to look at a map before they set out so that they don't need the phone to nanny them like that. If half our communications satellites are fried by a solar flare one day they are the ones who will be completely lost with no idea of how to get to somewhere where they will at least know where they are.
Yes. My wife always laughs because when we set out on a cross country trip I get the paper maps out, fold them so the route is visible with the least manipulation, sometimes highlight the route, and update it. I also use the GPS, but mostly for convenience inside a city when trying to navigate the streets. For most trips, I don't need to use them, but I have been known to refer to them from time to time. But this is a lot different than reading the map in a military operation where you are not necessarily on a road.
I was wondering why all the water looked green to me on the map samples you are using. Now I know. Interesting. I never knew that problem existed. Cool beans, as I say, some times.
And now back to your excellent craftsmanship (womanship?)
Does anyone know if it's possible to make a compound bitmap symbol where different bitmap elements are on different sheets?
It's one way I could cure the marsh problem highlighted by Wyvern.
I can make little marsh islands as symbols, but because of the muddy border you wouldn't be able to paste them into groups of overlapping islands, unless... the muddy margin was an a sheet below the sheet where the island was being pasted.
Thank you so much!
I have no idea what you are talking about, but as long as it is possible I'm extremely happy.
The marsh problem has been solved... or at least it will be
Can I just create several copies of Solid and call the copies the relevant sheet names?
Some of the reeds around the edge are already symbols. Does that matter? Or should I leave them out and ask users to place them manually after the marsh islands have been pasted?
EDIT: Actually, I will have to leave them out or they will appear in odd places where the islands may be pasted overlapping each other.
If you need some examples of multi-sheet symbols to see better how actual ones operate, I recall the hill symbols from the very first Annual issue, the Mercator style, were of this kind - probably many others besides, but they're the ones I remember, because I spent ages playing around with the sheet effects with these very early on in my CC3 Learning Time (i.e. before CC3+ appeared!).
Wyvern - It's not very obvious from the little swatches on those two webpages (especially since the lapis swatch looks just as green as they do) but Prussian and Azurite blues are both fairly green, and only look bluish at maximum concentrations - Azurite in particular is pretty much what I would call blue-green compared to lapis, and just seems to go greener as you dilute it for the kind of colour wash you would need to do on a map like this. Looking at the original map I would say that the materials budget was probably not large enough to afford lapis/ultramarine, though you may be right about the Azurite where the map is at it's bluest.
If I have two instances of CC3 open at the same time and I'm working on both of them, what happens when they respectively autosave? Do they alternately overwrite each other's autosave file?