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Including symbols in menus and the differences between CD3 and DD3

brustmljbrustmlj
in Mapping with ProFantasy's Software
I have been a long time use of the vintyri group of symbol extensions. I have done most of my work to date with DD3 and have learned to like the way the menus work for DD3. I proposed the below email to them in trying to figure out the reasons behind the difference. They were very helpful but the main response was that they had done this at the recommendation of the ProFantasy team. I was hoping many of you pros out there might be able to provide me an additional level of detail into the SYMBOL differences between CD3 and DD3 before I go change everything to use the DD3 style and end up shooting my self in the foot on new CD3 maps.

Thanks


First I want to greatly thank you for the wonderful work you have done putting together the extensions to Campaign Cartographer. I use them widely and have learned quite a bit of what I know about CC3+ through working with your wonderful add-ons.

I have a technical question and was hoping to understand the way you delivered certain menus and symbols differently between DD3 and CD3.

I have DD3 and CD3 as well as SS1, SS2, SS4, and SS5 installed on my system. With the exception of SS5 which just came out all the CC3+ additions where installed before installing CSUAC, Bogie, Vintyri, and Dundjinni.

My question revolves around the design choices for building menus and how they differ between CD3 and DD3. For DD3 is seems you simply built FSC catalogs of the symbols and then linked those catalogs to MNC menus called from the MNU main level menus. This seems straightforward.

For CD3 it seems like you went a different way. You built symbol icon sets SIS, which link back to the FSC used in DD3. These SIS seem to mainly set a few tools and the expected layer. The SIS are included in the symbol icon filters SIF, usually wildcarded, which are then included in the MNU with the SYMICONFSET. Instead of bringing a nice drop down menu like DD3 this pops up a symbol icon filter window where the set can be selected. Presuming it is properly in the SIF file.

I personally much prefer the behavior of the DD3 menus. Why was this different approach used for CD3? Is it so that the same FCT files can be used across both? Is the SIS actually overriding behavior in the FCT? If so what is it overriding.

I can build my own MNU, MNC, FCT, SIS, and SIF files and this point in either format. I would like to know if I switch the CD3 menus to be more DD3 like am I losing needed behavior by not using the SIS and SIF files.

Thank you again for you wonderful work. These add-ons have been a tremendous resource.

Mike Gasser
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Comments

  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    The reason for using SIS + SIF files are the symbol catalog settings.

    The menu files are very straightforward, and they only load the desired catalog, but it can't set any additional options.
    Symbol Catalog settings on the other hand allow for the setting of various properties, along with loading the symbol catalog. Probably the most important of these is the Layers setting, and layers have an important part in CD3, especially if you use features like demographics coloring.

    Additional reasons for using symbol catalog settings is that you can search for symbol catalogs. It is also somewhat easier to manage, because you can do everything from within CC3+ instead of taking an external editor to the menu files and making sure you get everything right.

    And of course, with symbol catalog settings you can have style-sensitive catalogs if you want, instead of always displaying everything.

    You won't break anything by making yourself menu files though. Unless you actually delete the SIS files, the symbol catalog settings will still be there (although they won't be used when you select the catalog from a menu) for use when you want.
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  • brustmljbrustmlj
    Well the layers are there in DD3. Can you point me to some documentation about how the layers in CD3 are different than the layers on DD3?

    Thanks
    Mike
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  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    They're not. But CD3 takes more advantage of them for certain features, most notably the demographic coloring, where it is very important that the houses resides on the correct layers for this to function. This feature is discussed on page 401 of the tome.


    That said, keeping symbols on the correct layers can be quite helpful no matter the add-on. Since layers provides an ordering that does not affect the display (like sheets does), having symbols on appropriate layers can be quite helpful (like having all GM only stuff on a single layer, no matter what sheet they are on). This is one of the things Symbol Catalog Settings helps with, since they can set up the layer automatically for a catalog.
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  • brustmljbrustmlj
    I have picked up the tome and it seems well worth it. I understand now the use of layers for demographic coloring. And to overall benefit of managing with layers.

    So I just personally find it annoying the operation of the SYMICONMR. It is nifty that is can wildcard SIS files and pull up all those that match. But I really do not like having to pop-up a second window and click ok in order to select the icon set I want. I much prefer the MNC drop drown menus where I can get to the symbol I want directly.

    Is it possible to build a menu from the SIS files instead of using the wildcard filter menu?

    Thanks for the feedback.
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