Slightly off-topic PC question
Loopysue
ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
Can anyone tell me what kind of specs I should be looking for in a new PC for optimum graphic performance - not just in CC3+/CC4 (when it arrives), but with ordinary graphics apps as well? I use GIMP and Krita, and 3D apps Sketchup and Blender to make new symbols.
Comments
The most powerful processor (with the most number of cores) that you can afford.
The biggest hard drive available.
In that order, IMO, though others may disagree. With the Sketchup stuff, a more powerful processor might be more important (assuming it uses multiple cores properly).
I'm currently holding out on upgrading my home PC for memory prices to come back down a bit more so that I can afford 64 GB of RAM to go with the four or six core Xeon processor. I would consider 3 TB the minimum size for a hard drive, and bigger would be better. (I'm planning on probably a 500 GB SSD boot drive, but all data will go on a regular hard drive, or two, or three, or five.) There are some pretty decent deals on 6 TB drives these days.
(I have no recommendation on video cards, because I do nothing that would benefit form a fancy one, some of which cost more than my car.)
A friend of mine who draws maps in PS for a living just recommended this one - its within the £1000 limit, and leaves enough to get extra things, like a second slightly larger screen, and maybe a new and larger tablet.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fierce-Legends-Gaming-PC-Bundle/dp/B07JGC79DW/ref=sr_1_71?keywords=game pc&qid=1555969541&s=computers&sr=1-71
I think this one is a possibility?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/HP-8300-Office-PC-i7-16GB/dp/B07N589RCP/ref=sr_1_20?crid=F7GDNNUU2HRX&keywords=hp+pc+desktop&qid=1555972588&refinements=p_n_feature_browse-bin:1481783031&rnid=182781031&s=computers&sprefix=HP+PC,computers,1008&sr=1-20&th=1
With branded PCs, you end up paying more, and in many cases they may not be as expandable in the future as one would think.
Alternatively, if you must go for a branded PC, make sure it is expandable according to your needs.
As for the specs, nowadays I'd suggest these as base:
Core i5 (latest gen)
16 GB RAM
250 GB SSD (OS drive)
# TB HDD (Data drive)
(# based on your needs
Of course, the more the better, especially for the RAM and processor cores/threads.
The HP system looks pretty decent with a i7 processor, especially given your budget. (Does "Renewed" mean the same as "Refurbished" does here?) And a 2 TB drive will go a long way (and is fairly easy to replace/upgrade/add on) later, if you need more. 16 GB of RAM is about the minimum I'd mess with these days, but it looks like it could be upgraded to 32 GB later if you need it. As a computer intended for office work, it won't have a high end graphics card, but that, too, can be upgraded later easily enough if you need it (I doubt you will, unless you start doing real-time video processing).
You might also take a look at Dell's refurbished site (under business - the home stuff is high end gaming machines and waaaayyy too expensive). It's a somewhat limited selection (it's a pity you don't have access to the US site, they have about 20 times as many items available most of the time), but if you're patient they should have new stuff there on a weekly basis. It might be somewhat more expensive, but it's refurbished by the factory that built it. I have a lot of experience with Dell refurbs, and they've always delivered as promised.
Personally, I would prefer having 32 GB of ram (or more), but you do actually get quite far with 16 as long as you don't try to run a ton of different demanding programs all at once. If the computer only contains 16, make sure it has 2 8Gb sticks, and not 4 4GB ones though (most computers have 4 slots for ram, this leaves two slots for easy upgrade later without wasting anything)
The system drive is somewhat difficult to upgrade, so it is best to have something there you will be happy with. Personally, I find 256 GB SSD's to be a bit to small, but again, since money is an issue, you should be able to manage with that, but I'd recommend a 512GB one, and preferably a NVMe drive instead of a SATA one, but in any case, the system drive should ABSOLUTELY be an SSD.
Processor is very troublesome to upgrade, since new generations often require new motherboards, so this is the most important factor. Preferably, I would say go with an i7 (i7-9700), but you should manage with an i5 too. I am more familiar with Intel, but you do of course have the AMD option too. The downside here is that they usually have more cores, but have less per-core performance, which will hurt CC3+ (but may be better in other graphics software)
A graphics card is easy to upgrade. While many graphics applications can take advantage of your graphics card, I wouldn't prioritize this highly for the initial computer. It can only help with certain workloads anyway, a better base computer is preferable in the beginning, you can upgrade the graphics card later.
If you have a small SSD as a system drive, you will need a separate data drive. This is also easy to plug in later, so it is another good candidate for saving money. I would still probably go with a 1TB drive, but you don't have to go for the fastest one. Personally, I don't like HDD's in my computer, and prefer to go all SSD, but this is much more expensive.
Either get a good monitor immediately, or get something really cheap that you plan to replace later. Throwing money at a medium-range monitor that you plan to replace is useless. And remember for graphics work, contrast ratio is much more important than latency, and get a matte screen, NOT a glossy one.
Another alternative is to research local dealers to see if there is someone that will build to your specifications and provide support for some period of time after.
A lot to absorb and consider, and I have to go to my course this morning...
This site was recommended by one of the FB Group users as a good place for buying. Maybe someone here has used it before and can either condone or condemn it?
https://www.scan.co.uk/shop/pro-graphics
https://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/custom/cad-graphics-workstations/workstations#anc
It's got the 2 x 8GB RAM sticks, and... I'm not really sure about the rest. Its a bit confusing to me, so I will have to discuss it with them.
Please - if anyone can see something about this rig that is a definite no-no - please say so?
Thanks
That’s an awesome set up, the only concern would be the cost, don’t forget to budget for your peripherals (keyboard, mouse, monitor etc).
The Quadro is Nvidia’s professional line of cards. It’s going to be more geared towards graphic development vs gaming, so I think a good choice for you if you can afford it.
The processor will be more than fast enough, I’m not a fan of overclocking as I want to make sure my parts last for a long time but if done right with proper cooling it supposedly can last just as long as a non overclocked cpu.
Corsair’s RAM is some of the best quality you can buy which is great, you don’t want cheap RAM as it can cause hard to track intermittent problems. ASUS is the one of (I consider the) best motherboard brands out there, Samsung is a great SSD and HDD manufacturer. The only thing they don’t list is the power supply, I would find out which brand they use, I have never had a problem with Corsair or Antec, and I would avoid any off brand power supplies as it’s the life blood of your computer and a bad power supply can cause all sorts of problems including frying everything.
I feel a bit more confident about talking with them now. It seems that they tend to use good quality components at any rate.
I think I clicked the Configure button and got confused as heck and backed out of it. I have just gone there again because I remembered seeing the power supply. The default is
LN71877
550W Corsair CXM, Semi Modular, 80PLUS Bronze - Single GPU
In your personal opinion, do you think there is anything I could possibly afford to do without, or have a smaller, less powerful version to cut the cost down a bit?
Of course, it is a weaker graphics card, but the graphics card isn't your main thing here anyway.
I would be lost without you and Rely.
I can see that I will need to have this conversation and the one over on the FB Group page open while I discuss the options tomorrow.
Remy - that alternative graphics card? will it perform as well when I'm doing stuff in other apps - 64 bit graphics apps like GIMP, Sketchup and Blender?
In my opinion, the first thing to dial back on is the graphics card, Quadros are expensive and most of your tools won’t make much of a difference vs a low end gaming card.
You might be able to tone the processor down a bit as well, see what options are available. Looking at their configure tab it looks like to go cheaper you may have to step down to an i3 which isn’t ideal (but not the end of the world)
I wouldn’t change the ram though (unless you get a deal for more)
I currently use an i3 laptop. Never had any trouble with it until MS foisted that Win 10 monster of an OS onto us, and the processor speed just died on me when the security upgrades came out just over a year ago now. Since then I've been limping through everything at a yawn-inducing snail's pace. I need to be able to draw things at full scale and in real-time, not half the size I really wanted it to be and 5 minutes later. LOL!
Are i3's more efficient now, or will I end up with the same kind of problem where speed is concerned?
I’m not current with everything new but the things to consider: the current generation i3 should run circles around your old i3 and quite often laptop processors are a lot weaker then desktop to conserve power. So I would talk to the seller/builder and see the price difference to see if it’s worth it.
This laptop is only 4 yrs old, but I know that's probably equivalent to 20 IT years because HP ceased support at the end of 3 years - just when Win 10 really hit me badly with their famous Creators Update.
Here is the i5 and i3 side by side:
https://www.cpubenchmark.net/compare/Intel-i5-8600K-vs-Intel-i3-8350K/3100vs3102
Single thread is not much different (so cc3 would be fine on either) but the i5 takes off on the overall benchmark.
We shall see how it goes tomorrow when I call them. Maybe something in a different range would be better (not specifically set up to be a professional graphics machine I mean), but I doubt it. The average PC for sale out there right now only seems to be 8GB RAM, and not specifically set up to be able to store all that much above and beyond the family photo album. I have 500GB disk in this laptop, and I'm down to my last 80GB storage space. The backup disk I use is also only 500GB. I need at least 1 (preferably 2) TB storage and backup space. That's going to cost me, I know!
Most of the slowness is caused by all the swapping that's going on. I live in fear of the drive packing up under the strain of it all.
I would recommend ordering it with the fewest number of memory sticks possible, preferably one. That way, you can upgrade to 16 GB by buying one 8 GB stick, instead of two to replace 4 GB sticks. Adding memory is a very basic IT task. Anybody comfortable opening the case should be able to handle it.
By all means, get the biggest drive you can afford, but with a mini-tower sized case, it will probably be easier to add a second drive than to replace a small one. You then move all the data files to that, and keep the boot drive as clean as possible. (And that's only slightly more complicated than adding memory.)
Debatable.
I hadn't realised it was one of those dinky little ones!
That's good. It will fit a lot better on my dinky little desk
If the case is larger, there can be more fans and / or larger fans, so lower RPM, so less noise. One of my cases has a 120 mm fan on top and another one on the side, and it is ridiculously quiet; it is also ridiculously huge.