Yes, it looks like I was mislead by a YouTube video that showed a smithy with only a small opening around the chimney stack. It was the Blacksmith talking about what he was doing that said darkness was required to see the colour of the metal. It must just be a personal thing he has about the right way
I have also had a few really good images shared on my FB thread of real smithy buildings and activities, so I can redesign the smithy a lot better now.
Thanks, Wyvern
Sketchup isn't really given to making messy things. That will have to be added around the smelter at the re-drawing stage. I saw the general shape it was supposed to be by watching YouTube videos made of people living in a period iron-age village, and also of iron being smelted in the African bush in modern times - both techniques so astonishingly similar that I made the logical assumption that medieval smelting was done the same way as it had always been done since the iron age - in a small clay bloomery
Glad you managed to get it sorted Sue! I found quite a few medieval manuscript smithy images when I was checking for places that might help online earlier, but none of them really showed any building around the forge and anvil at all, and only a couple even showed a chimney from the hood over the forge. Presumably a lot of these period illustrations were really just giving a shorthand smithy-concept view though, despite the lack of help that provides now
Wyvern - Thank you for taking the time to look at the problem for me. This is what I discovered myself - that there is a dirth of suitable reference material relating to the actual period. So there had to be about 50% guesswork
I had some nice photos of older forges from Jerry Theil on the FB Group page, and I also gave in a bit to the slightly fluffy ideas presented by fantasy images I'd looked at, then applied a bit of common sense. I figured that if the forge was mostly open air, then it would need a roof over it in these northern climes where rain would ruin a days work and might even crack a red hot forge. Having put a roof over it to protect it from the rain the chimney was necessary to take the heat away from timbers supporting the roof, and also to draw air up through the bed of charcoal without the need for bellows (provided there was a way for air to get underneath the charcoal bed). A chimney of sufficient height can create a very powerful updraft.
Sorry I couldn't be of more help, Sue. It is frustrating not to have found more. There are hints in some illustrations that could suggest the forge is indoors, but that the anvil-work is being done outside. That would make sense from the wet-climate-but-metalworking-is-really-hot angle, though it's impossible now to guess how accurate this may have been. For northern Europe, the forge would almost certainly have been in a structure that could have been enclosed on all sides, if it wasn't built with four walls already. A wide doorway and windows would have been needed as well - lots of heavy, bulky stuff to move in and out, after all, plus the few period illustrations that show a smith working identifiably indoors usually depict a substantial window or doorway nearby as well, for light. This of course is often the way with historical investigations, unfortunately. Too little evidence, and, especially now with the Internet, too much extrapolation
The anvil! Where is the anvil? Its not there. Probably because I was so pleased with myself for having done my homework properly on the smelter.
There's a lot I can draw into the image at the Krita stage. I might add a wall down the far side so the furnace is still visible from one side at least
This one is a long way removed from the house in Mill Street on which it is based. It will be interesting to see if it fits properly with the rest of the set.
I have a problem - much much bigger one than the proportions of a tower.
Even though these drawings are only screen shots I have had to delete both my threads from the PF Group page because someone had downloaded just one of these images and turned them into a symbol of sorts.
The licence does not allow me to even lend these images to anyone, so I am now going to have to delete all the images out of this thread as well.
My apologies for this everyone, but I've been stung by an EULA issue before and I have no intention of getting stung ever again.
***This problem has now been resolved, and the images that were removed as a result of it replaced as far as was possible***
What kind of weird license is that that doesn't allow you to share your own work? It is somewhat more understandable when you use a program where you just compose existing artwork (like CC3+ really), but this doesn't really look like it fits that bill.
2.2. Special License Terms 2.2.1. SketchUp Make SketchUp Make Software is licensed only for non-commercial use for your internal business purposes. Non-commercial use means that you may not sell, rent, lease or lend the output of the Software. Any other use requires the purchase of a SketchUp Pro license. For example, if you are a for-profit organization of any kind, or an employee of a for-profit organization using the Software in that capacity, you are engaged in commercial activity; therefore, in order to use the Software, you must purchase a SketchUp Pro license. Government agencies are considered to be commercial users and must purchase a SketchUp Pro license.
__________
Its possibly a bit fuzzy if you argue the definition of the term 'lend', but the way I see it is that if I have made images from Sketchup available and someone then comes along and in all innocence borrows that image to reupload it in a comparison map with existing isometric symbols - even be it to praise my drawings as it was, then I have lent him or her that image and the blame is mine.
A bit fuzzy, but then again, using someone elses artwork without permission is intellectual theft, the crime is being committed by the person reusing the images, not the by the person showing them off. The term "lend" does include giving someone permission to do so, and posting an image online intended to show off your work is not the same as giving permission for reuse. Nobody comes around and "innocently" borrows an image, doing so is copyright infringement and not at all innocent in the eyes of the law.
Not a lawyer obviously, but as I see it, they prevent you from giving anyone else the permission to use the output, not prevent you from displaying it.
The "lend" argument does imply that you are actively loaning the item however, with such terms as "loan" and "borrow" having the implication the item will be returned to you. In this case, you've simply shown the image and someone has essentially "stolen" it (i.e. taken it without permission). But sadly, yeah, this is a minefield of definitions the lawyers would just love (endless arguments + no chance of resolution = loads of cash for them...).
LOL! I never thought I'd see Remy ninja you, Wyvern, but I guess he has a reputation to uphold :P
Its muddy water, and since I fully intend to create at the very least an annual everything needs to be perfectly spotlessly clean with no grey areas to spoil it for everyone. No one wants to buy a thing that has the faintest sniff of possible illegality attached to it.
The good news is that it looks like I might have a pro licence a lot sooner than I thought would be possible. I can't do anything about the fact that I have deleted the FB threads, but I can probably replace most of the images in this thread once its all legal and above board.
I only have 3 to go now for a set of 12, which, considering rotations of each one make for a decent sized set - especially once we get to the stage of possibly creating varicolour versions.
I am extremely pleased to announce that thanks to a wonderful and very generous benefactor I now hold a Sketchup Pro 2018 licence, and will be able to spend the rest of this afternoon searching for and replacing all the illustrations in this thread.
Thank you SO much!
EDIT:
This means the set can go ahead, and that everything is perfectly legal
Everything is as close as I can make it to the original thread. There are a couple of WIP images of buildings half done that I no longer have, but for the most part the thread is restored
With all the upheaval with the licence issues and a handful of real life thrown in for good measure I'm a bit behind with the drawing now. But this is 'Day 10'
So finally I can see what the Day 9 house and the town wall tower look like. The tower is probably too tall and bulky if it's meant to represent a typical medieval defence, though wall heights could be quite variable - a quick survey of half-a-dozen towns online suggests full-height British surviving examples range between roughly 11-20 feet (3.4-6.2 metres), for instance, with towers sometimes only marginally higher. From those, the tower should be a simple cylinder too, rather than tapering-in towards the top. Fantasy walls and towers could of course dwarf the houses completely though, given they've no drawbacks like needing money and huge numbers of people to quarry stone and build them!
You have, in a single comment, repeated everything that I was told by others over on the FB page, where things had gotten about half a day further before I had to remove everything.
When I get myself mentally reoriented to actually be able to sit down and DO something I will get a fresh screen shot of how it looks now for you
Comments
I have also had a few really good images shared on my FB thread of real smithy buildings and activities, so I can redesign the smithy a lot better now.
Thanks, Wyvern
Sketchup isn't really given to making messy things. That will have to be added around the smelter at the re-drawing stage. I saw the general shape it was supposed to be by watching YouTube videos made of people living in a period iron-age village, and also of iron being smelted in the African bush in modern times - both techniques so astonishingly similar that I made the logical assumption that medieval smelting was done the same way as it had always been done since the iron age - in a small clay bloomery
I had some nice photos of older forges from Jerry Theil on the FB Group page, and I also gave in a bit to the slightly fluffy ideas presented by fantasy images I'd looked at, then applied a bit of common sense. I figured that if the forge was mostly open air, then it would need a roof over it in these northern climes where rain would ruin a days work and might even crack a red hot forge. Having put a roof over it to protect it from the rain the chimney was necessary to take the heat away from timbers supporting the roof, and also to draw air up through the bed of charcoal without the need for bellows (provided there was a way for air to get underneath the charcoal bed). A chimney of sufficient height can create a very powerful updraft.
Scott and Jim - thank you
You know... I just knew I'd forgotten something!
The anvil! Where is the anvil? Its not there. Probably because I was so pleased with myself for having done my homework properly on the smelter.
There's a lot I can draw into the image at the Krita stage. I might add a wall down the far side so the furnace is still visible from one side at least
I absorb ideas. They all get mashed into one amorphous lump, and then I pull the concept out of that.
This one is a long way removed from the house in Mill Street on which it is based. It will be interesting to see if it fits properly with the rest of the set.
I have a problem - much much bigger one than the proportions of a tower.
Even though these drawings are only screen shots I have had to delete both my threads from the PF Group page because someone had downloaded just one of these images and turned them into a symbol of sorts.
The licence does not allow me to even lend these images to anyone, so I am now going to have to delete all the images out of this thread as well.
My apologies for this everyone, but I've been stung by an EULA issue before and I have no intention of getting stung ever again.
***This problem has now been resolved, and the images that were removed as a result of it replaced as far as was possible***
__________
2.2. Special License Terms
2.2.1. SketchUp Make
SketchUp Make Software is licensed only for non-commercial use for your internal business purposes. Non-commercial use means that you may not sell, rent, lease or lend the output of the Software. Any other use requires the purchase of a SketchUp Pro license. For example, if you are a for-profit organization of any kind, or an employee of a for-profit organization using the Software in that capacity, you are engaged in commercial activity; therefore, in order to use the Software, you must purchase a SketchUp Pro license. Government agencies are considered to be commercial users and must purchase a SketchUp Pro license.
__________
Its possibly a bit fuzzy if you argue the definition of the term 'lend', but the way I see it is that if I have made images from Sketchup available and someone then comes along and in all innocence borrows that image to reupload it in a comparison map with existing isometric symbols - even be it to praise my drawings as it was, then I have lent him or her that image and the blame is mine.
Not a lawyer obviously, but as I see it, they prevent you from giving anyone else the permission to use the output, not prevent you from displaying it.
[EDIT: Ooh wow! My first ninja by Monsen!]
Its muddy water, and since I fully intend to create at the very least an annual everything needs to be perfectly spotlessly clean with no grey areas to spoil it for everyone. No one wants to buy a thing that has the faintest sniff of possible illegality attached to it.
The good news is that it looks like I might have a pro licence a lot sooner than I thought would be possible. I can't do anything about the fact that I have deleted the FB threads, but I can probably replace most of the images in this thread once its all legal and above board.
Just a note also to say how wonderful they are, Sue
I wish!
But thanks for the complement
I only have 3 to go now for a set of 12, which, considering rotations of each one make for a decent sized set - especially once we get to the stage of possibly creating varicolour versions.
I am extremely pleased to announce that thanks to a wonderful and very generous benefactor I now hold a Sketchup Pro 2018 licence, and will be able to spend the rest of this afternoon searching for and replacing all the illustrations in this thread.
Thank you SO much!
EDIT:
This means the set can go ahead, and that everything is perfectly legal
Everything is as close as I can make it to the original thread. There are a couple of WIP images of buildings half done that I no longer have, but for the most part the thread is restored
So finally I can see what the Day 9 house and the town wall tower look like. The tower is probably too tall and bulky if it's meant to represent a typical medieval defence, though wall heights could be quite variable - a quick survey of half-a-dozen towns online suggests full-height British surviving examples range between roughly 11-20 feet (3.4-6.2 metres), for instance, with towers sometimes only marginally higher. From those, the tower should be a simple cylinder too, rather than tapering-in towards the top. Fantasy walls and towers could of course dwarf the houses completely though, given they've no drawbacks like needing money and huge numbers of people to quarry stone and build them!
You have, in a single comment, repeated everything that I was told by others over on the FB page, where things had gotten about half a day further before I had to remove everything.
When I get myself mentally reoriented to actually be able to sit down and DO something I will get a fresh screen shot of how it looks now for you
http://www.exetermemories.co.uk/em/housethatmoved.php
Rob