Cities vs. Manors in medieval times

I have a number of resources but I can't seem to find the answer to this pretty basic question about medieval life. Were manors separate from cities? Could there be a city in a manor or was the biggest town you might find in a manor a large village or small town? I think once a town becomes a city the income is so large that the manorial income is not needed by the city as much because the city can sustain itself and becomes its own income generating force for the kingdom and the king. Is this correct?

Comments

  • Manor's are a type of building or house. Though often they may have a large main building and several small ones, they are generally considered a single household or set of family related households.

    Villages, towns, and cities are collections of multiple households.

    Manors might reside inside a city (or many different manors belonging to the major families and powers) or they might be like a country estate and be on their own. Wikipedia generally goes with the country estate definition of Manor, and is probably more correct than my thoughts about rich families having manor-like residences withint towns. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manor_house
  • LordEntrails, manor can mean that, but I think kevbeck43 is using the term differently. He's referring to the manorial system, where a Manor is the land governed by a feudal lord - see, for instance, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manor - which is why HârnManor is so named.

    Unfortunately I don't know the answer. I can't find reference to cities (of which there were few) on manors, but that doesn't mean there weren't any!
  • GThielGThiel Surveyor
    Yes, manors were separate from cities. Here is a link to a page that talks about manors and their purposes. https://www.thoughtco.com/definition-of-manor-1789184
    As the site notes, a manor might contain a hamlet, village, or town or more than one of those depending upon the amount of land the Manor Holder possessed.

    Cities such as London or Paris was where most non-agricultural trade would be conducted. They would be the home to many, if not most, non-serf freemen who were not in the "titled" classes and would be the centers for Guild activity. Cities might be within the purview of a noble or might have Crown Charters from the King to be free cities.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    In the UK the manor was the large house belonging to the 'Lord of the Manor', who would be the owner of most if not all the land for miles around. Its a rural thing here, not a city thing at all. The two things don't mix - not in the UK they don't anyway.

    Where cities have grown to 100 times their original medieval size in this country, old manors have been incorporated, but the land has been built on and the 'manor' is now just the house that once stood in the middle of hundreds of acres of farmland.
  • One reference I've used extensively for my games that goes deeply in to the Manor system, Cities and Kingdoms is A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe by Expeditious Retreat Press. Excellent resource.
  • ScottAScottA Surveyor
    I will second the recommendation for A Magical Medieval Society: Western Europe. I have the 3rd edition and keep it on my desk permanently. It is an invaluable resource for anyone working in the period, whether mapping, writing, etc.
  • Thanks for the feedback! I do indeed already possess A Magical Medieval Society and it has been of great help. I just couldn't find it specifically stated in there that cities and lands based on the manorial system were basically separate entities. Maybe I should have gathered that since they are completely separate chapters. :) Anyway that is how I am going to proceed. They are separate entities. Thanks again!
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