Vue and Cornucopia Trees
Loopysue
ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
I'm posting this map here, where the artists who created the tree models I've rendered to use in my maps can see them. I'm just about to ask both them and Vue about what I can and cannot do with the little rendered images of their tree models I want to use in the maps for my author's webpage.
These are they, and here they appear in all their much enlarged glory. When I add these trees to the main Merelan City map they will appear at about 1cm across due to the much larger area covered by that map.
These are they, and here they appear in all their much enlarged glory. When I add these trees to the main Merelan City map they will appear at about 1cm across due to the much larger area covered by that map.
Comments
That's good - half the question answered already
The Cornucopia member who responded was quite happy for me to show the trees in my maps - wherever they might be shown (and as long as I don't sell them), but I still have yet to hear from anyone from E-on (the company that created Vue). They might want me to buy one of their professional packages to make it ok.
The cheapest one is about £160 ($199), so I'd either have to save up for 6 months, or go back to plan A, which was take about six months to draw a set of my own trees by hand.
Hi Sue,
I guess the relevant sentence in the product description is this one:
"Commercial use requires purchase of the RenderUp module or use of a higher product."
This is really only referring to the quality of the image produced.
All our eulas are really about protecting the brokers and of course ourselves but having said that your use of VUE is not breaking any licensing terms as I understand them.
I cannot see that you are doing harm to either the company or the brokers in this regard.
Render away, it's fine!
And this is where I could seriously do with a HUGE Dogtag grin emoticon, because that's what my face looks like right now!!!
**Shessar does a little happy dance for Sue**
Thanks Shessar
Does this mean you can show them here on the forum? You know.....ALL the trees you've made (wink wink)
Believe me - I would like nothing better than to share them all with you guys, but for now I can only show you the maps I make with them (instead of hiding them away in my virtual closet).
Later, once I have finished the maps and got the first book up for sale (and it will now have to be for sale rather than free to recoup some of my financial loses in this exercise), I will make a suitable purchase - most likely one of E-on's professional versions of Plant Factory - and make all my own models from scratch. Then... you can have all the 2D rendered trees that you want
[Image_6975]
Still to go - more realistic dead trees, and three further textures - forest floor, bare rock (to match the personal style I seem to be creating), and bare soil. Possibly also various field textures.
The CSUAC/Dundjinni Collections are far bigger and have far more variety. I 'm just one of those strange obsessive people who like to make their own
Looking forward to the "autumn foliage and leafless trees" and "bluebell woods in spring" ground textures especially ;D
[You probably didn't need the hint, but...]
I think I might need to take a break from creating new stuff once I've got the dead trees sorted out (and the new textures of course), so that I can finish Merelan City at last - after a 2 month break!
(I've just realised that I need to make a few boats and tents to finish the job)
After that, though.... hmmmn. bluebells, eh? Well since that will be a ground texture I could give that one away on my texture sharing thread, so that you can use it with the Dundjinni trees and stuff - if you want to, that is
I've yet to get really going with the autumn collection. The yellow leaved trees started as yellow leaved Mexican orange - Choisya Ternata 'Sundance', but kind of got turned into yellow trees instead of bushes, and the purple leaved trees are simply purple leaved trees.
A couple of things to beware of about the Vue software is that they allays update the software and you end up paying a lot of money for it to remain current. A lot of people I used to chat with got tired of the high cost updating scene they have. Plus how they make you have specify what version of Vue you are buying a product for on Conocopia. The installers are made to work for only specific versions of Vue. I've got some older versions of Pioneer and an older free version of Frontier that was on a magazine DVD.
If you do want to buy it the best time is right before a new version gets released as they allways ell the older version cheap and then offer an update deal. The major neew build comes out twice a year.
I'm glad you brought up the subject Jay_NOLA.
I was already aware of all these not-so-little inconveniences, but I hadn't thought to apply them to the EULA situation. I do intend to make a proper purchase, but only after I've published at least the first book (or I wouldn't have the money anyway). At that point I was only going to ask if my purchase meant I could then sell/give away my rendered images of standard Vue models (not Cornucopia ones which are never to be sold), but now I will also be asking if whatever rights I may be granted will continue, even if I fail to update the software I have purchased due to cost.
Right at the moment E-on is a bit behind with its latest scheduled updates, but I was told a few months ago that updates generally come out in April, and that there is usually a 50% sale just before it happens... (if anyone else is considering the same option in terms of making their own symbols).
If you choose to use Vue Pioneer, instead of a purchased package, backdated versions of the add-on modules are available (it is said) through the Cornucopia page. For your information I am currently using Vue Pioneer with the following purchased add-ons: Advanced Graph, Render-up and Botanica. be warned, however, that Botanica only allows you to manipulate certain aspects of the available plant models. If you want to 'grow your own from seed' (as it were) you will need to get a separate piece of software called Plant Factory.
You can get some other software that will let you 3d model and make tress a lot cheaper. I can post some other one I've used with some purchase tips, when I get some free time.
I never say no to learning new tricks
You can do some good tress with it though and irt was the best 3d landscape program on the market many years ago.
Carrara is better but again suffers from the age problems for some but you can do some very realistic looking tress with it.
Look at Howie Farkes Stuff
http://www.howiefarkes.com/
http://carraracafe.com/tag/howie-farkes/
He's also done stuff for DAZ and Vue that isn't on his website.
One of the DAZ books I recommended and I think you got it a few years back too Jim has an older version of Carrara Pro on it on it for free on the disk it comes with along with an older version of Hexogram, DAZ Studio and a lot of DZ 3D models.
For learning Bryce and Daz i end up doing an online non-credited course that taught me how to use both programs and all kinds of tricks of them. Bryce has a lot of stuff it can do that isn't detailed in the used manual and some of the online videos can help with that. I think I paid like 25 or 50 for each course and they had absic bryce one an advanced one. You did one assignment aweek in the basic and two in the advanced.
Carrara I like better as you can do good toon style renders, parchment, blueprint tech drawing ones with it by adjusting your settings and with some plugins that are free or very cheap.
The big thing is learning to use the software for all the programs to use it fully. I've seen people do stuff in old outdated software do 3D stuff that put modern stuff to sham just because the bothered to learn how to use it.
I remember downloading some additional textures for Bryce. Of course, they are on my Vista computer which have only my maps and some other downloads backed up from that machine.
We had discussion a few years back about render masks and Bryce and CC3 symbol creation.
http://forum.profantasy.com/comments.php?DiscussionID=2361
A couple of interesting downloads can be found in that thread and you can see the Bryce/Wings base Transformer made used in an image I did. I also used carrara and tied to do a SVG version of the base Terraformer did so it could be turned into a varicolor symbol.
Also, one thing regarding rendering and memory usage and 3d software. the film & TV industry and professionals never render at the best quality the software they can use do in most cases because of time and cost. What you see in film and on TV is done using not the best settings. One of the books I have on 3D stuff had a huge section that talked about this and why this practice is in effect. Basically if they were to render at best quality the film would get delayed, and cost more. and the 3D software that they used would be behind the current stuff that studios were switching to when the film was released that could do the same quality stuff but quicker. Old high end render quality becomes the medium quality in a year or two.
I know what you mean about film quality. You can see the effect of low quality animation/scene rendering in the roof of that weird round building in Jurassic World. It actually shimmers quite distractingly - jerking from side to side relative to the rest of the building.
Getting back to the point, though - the use of other software to generate symbols for use with Profantasy software - I read that thread you mentioned and got very quickly lost. I did however formulate an impression for myself that doing this (using 3D models to create new 2D symbols for Profantasy software) is always going to be tricky because there has never been a convenient piece of 3D modelling software specifically designed to do just that. the closest I have found so far is Vue - with its capacity to simultaneously render 100% perfect alpha mask that is unbelievably crisp and accurate at the tick of a box in the render controls. Masking those trees for transparency without it would have been a total nightmare, and I probably would have given up after the first ten or so.
Whatever software we use, though, the end result is always going to depend on the ability of the individual to discover the most effective (ie most accurate and least convoluted) work-around to fix all the inherent problems.
Now if you want to see the good, the bad, and the ugly of 3d objects rendered into map symbols look at the Dundjinni & CSUAC fan symbols closely. A lot of them are just renders of 3d DAZ/Poser figures and some of them look real good and others don't.
Exactly what map style you want to use them for is another thing. A realitic rendered object might not look good with certain map styles. In addition to render settings, adjustments to materiel textures, and most important and most frequently screwed up lighting.
You can take the exact same scene and if you light it badly it is going to look like crap, but if you do it right it can look real. Most 3d artist never learn how to do good lighting and the modern film industry is full of movies that have scenes that look bad because of this.
You also have the drop shadows and no drop shadows thing to deal with
Also, for those who are wondering what is this alpha mask stuff.
I read a very good tutorial Robin Wood, the artist who did the People of Pern book and a the Robin wood Tarot deck did. I'll have to find the link for it and post
Though I no longer use them myself, I am fairly familiar with the appearance of the CSUAC/Dundjinni Collections. I think the variability is down to the fact that they are the work of many different artists, each with their own idea of what looks right, which is a reflection of their own unique styles. Map styles are equally unique to the individual, even when two people use the same pre-set CC3 style. If you look at a Herwin Wielink map, for instance, the HW style is immediately obvious, but the Sheet effects an individual uses (particularly to modify the colour and tone of the standard fills), and the overall design, can make two HW maps look very different.
My city and dungeon scale maps are done in a relatively photorealistic style, because that is how I like them, though there are many things that are really not so very photorealistic about my style - like the more saturated colours. I've had to mess around with Vue's atmospheric settings and create my own atmospheres to be able to render the trees in such a way that they marry up with this colourful tendency of mine, so I know just how easy it is to mess up the lighting
I solve the shadow problem by allowing the trees and their leaves to cast shadows, but removing the ground's ability to receive them. That means there are shadows cast on the branches and trunks of the trees by the leaves, but nothing on the ground. That way I avoid having shadows extending outside the outline of the tree itself, so that transparency is sharp and clear, and generate the missing shadows in CC3+ by using sheet effects.
The only trees for which this isn't true are the dead ones, which I am preparing as I type with ready made transparent shadows. These will have to go on a separate sheet below the living shadow casting trees, but then, if you look at a real shot of a woodland most of the deadwood isn't that visible from above, where the living canopy quickly knits back together over the corpse of the dead tree.
I thought about loading a series of screen shots showing the process of alpha masking, starting with the colour image and the mask image, but I'll wait to see if you can find those tutorials first