Transferring catalogues
Loopysue
ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
If I render a set of 20-40 dead trees from Vue (from a couple of new freebie models I got from Cornucopia), then make them into a catalogue... if I then send the catalogue to a friend do I also have to send that friend the original PNGs as well?
I'm a bit confused about how to send anything other than just the PNGs.
If I need to send both the catalogue and the tree pngs, should I set up the catalogue in a master folder called "dead trees" which also contains the folder with all the dead tree PNGs?
I'm a bit confused about how to send anything other than just the PNGs.
If I need to send both the catalogue and the tree pngs, should I set up the catalogue in a master folder called "dead trees" which also contains the folder with all the dead tree PNGs?
Comments
Sorry! I had to remove this image
Generally, I like creating a master folder inside @Symbols\User (for example "Sue's Wonderful Symbols"). Inside this folder, I make another for the actual artwork for each symbol catalog, for example a "trees" folder. I then make the actual symbol catalog ("Trees.fsc"), and put that in my master folder, referring to the images in the subfolder. This way, the symbol catalogs are easily available, without mixing them in with the artwork. A new symbol catalog simply means a new artwork folder inside the master folder, and a new symbol catalog file there as well (Inside the master folder, but not inside the artwork folder)
When rendering these, make sure to not create more work for yourself than necessary. Remember that standard CD3 symbols are 40px per map unit (usually feet), so a large tree 20 feet across should be 800px across at the highest resolution. I know you may want to render something larger than the actual size and then shrink it, but keep the final size in mind.
So if I wanted to send the trees catalogue and the trees folder with the pngs in it, I'd just zip them together side by side right where they sat, and send the zip?
You've actually answered more than just the question I started with (I have a string of them), in that I couldn't really work out a suitable scale for all these things to make them correspond with one another - boats to trees... to tents (eventually). I think I will stick to rendering at 2000x2000 and reduce accordingly to 40 pi per foot, since graphics always look best when reduced by about 50% from their raw state, and a little more than that certainly won't hurt... although some of the finer details will inevitably be lost.
Now all I need to do is work out how to make all the dead trees into one collection, the autumn trees into another collection... and so on, so that when the catalogue is opened there are only about 6 items on display, labelled "Spring", "Summer", "Autumn", "Winter", "Pine/Spruce" and "Dead".
Reading back over my comment again - if I wanted to preserve the detail I will lose by reducing to 40 pi per foot, could I prepare the symbols at double the resolution and then add them to a catalogue at 80 pi per foot, and still have them come out at a scale compatible with standard PF symbols? Maybe I should ask what resolution the little thatched cottages in the CD3 are set at? I have always been very impressed by the sharpness and detail in those symbols - and the way they can be enlarged to hundreds of times the intended size, and still look really good.
Make sure you name your symbols like Spring 01, Spring 02, Spring 03, etc. Then, after importing the symbols to a catalog, you can easily tell it to make a collection with random transforms what differs only by numbers at the end. You can then also make this a random collection, which is great for quick placement.
Theoretically, but that means a lot of manual work, because the automatic symbol import can't handle that. It will also be a bit pointless, because all you accomplish is that your trees are still highly detailed when zoomed far enough in to make the rest of the map look pixellerated.
Edit: Maybe you can do that automatically actually, I need to test something, but on second thought, I belive you actually can do that. My point from above still stands though, and remember, more detailed symbols means larger files, which leads to slower redraw times. They are at 40px/unit, as are all CD3 symbols (regular CC3(+) symbols are at 20px/unit)
The last question is: naming conventions. I've seen other threads quite recently where combining the use of different symbol sets has caused problems when two symbols from each of the different sets have the same name. Should I try to ensure that all my symbols have names that are extremely unlikely to ever find a duplicate in the official PF symbol sets? For example by adding my initials someplace?
Yes. Symbol catalogs have an option to ignore initials at the end of the symbol name, so put your initials at the end
Got a classroom waiting for me now, so this will be my last reply in a couple of hours.
You also will find a large collection in excellent quality in the CSUAC 2/Dundjinni Archives collection under Vegetation/Trees Bare.
The Vue EULA states that images of objects rendered by the user are the property of the user to do with as they please - to sell or otherwise. So if I were to give the resulting perfected catalogue the pngs and the copyright to Profantasy (for example) and then if Profantasy should decide to distribute them in any way, can anyone see that there might be a copyright breach of any kind going on?
My humble gift (if it were accepted) would merely add a little more for those who can never have enough variety.
Of course, whether the miniscule 'Sue Set' (or whatever it gets called) ever becomes available depends entirely on whether Ralf thinks them worth the trouble, and he isn't back now till after Christmas.
Do you have any words of wisdom you can offer on the copyright question I asked?
I know the main Vue one is ok, but I'm still trying to find out about any EULA's that may or may not exist which cover the way images of objects purchased on Cornucopia are treated. Half the tree models I have are free objects. None of the bumf that comes with each object says anything at all about licence and there's no page covering it.
I've spent hours sifting through their forum, but I can't find a definitive answer.
Although I can't say for sure yet, it looks like this will have to be a free set anyway - just in case I've missed something.
EDIT: I really do take a very long time composing comments! Ninja'd by Lorelei! Glad you like it
sigh
Give me a colour to match and I'll do it better and faster than any computer. Give me anything arty to puzzle out, and its done... but as usual I'm a buffoon with anything legal.
I can't make head nor tail of the meaning here. All I really want to know is whether I can give my pictures away to other people once I've rendered them from the 3D models I've downloaded (both free and purchased) at Coruncopia. I was wondering if one of you kind souls out there could sort of... have a look at this for me? Pretty please?
International law says basically that one owns the copyright to everything that one has created. Asserting copyright ... in other words writing "Copyright © 2016, all rights reserved" ... tends to have value most of all when one is seeking damages for a copyright violation. However, the copyright exists whether one asserts it or not.
If one posts one's work publicly and does not assert copyright, one still has the copyright for that work and all of the rights that go without it. Let's make an example with the ProFantasy forum here. You've posted some of your work here and at the Cartographers Guild. Let's assume that I download something that you've created without asserting copyright and modify it. I now have a derivative work, but that derivation does not nullify your copyright for the part of the work that you've made. If I start to distribute my modification, free or commercially, you can go after me. One ordinarily begins by sending out what is known as a C&D - cease-and-desist order. If I do cease and desist, you probably will have a hard time getting a judge to give you a damages payment, because you haven't made clear what the copyright status is. I would be ordered to cease distribution of the work and to cause the forums that are distributing to remove it. Only if I ignore the C&D and keep distributing the modified work are you likely to get damages from me.
What this means in practical terms: If you publicly distribute your modifications of Cornucopia's graphics, chances are that nothing will happen at all. But there's no guarantee of that. You could get hit with a C&D.
You didn't ask this, but here's what I do and would do. I don't distribute anything publicly that wasn't created by me or our project group unless I have a license to do so. I do have written authorization for distribution of Bogie's Mapping Objects, the CSUAC and the Dundjinni Archives.
If I wanted to pass on a modification I made of a Cornucopia symbol, as you want to do with Lorelei, I would send the material by private E-Mail or post it with a closed URL for download from my website. As I have written before, there is yet another method for things from the Dundjinni forums, which includes all material from the CSUAC and the Dundjinni Archives. One can post the modification on the Dundjinni foums and then have your users download it from there. However, that doesn't work well right now, because the Dundjinni Forums have been running on one cylinder for the past 10 days or so and often are unavailable.
Another point to consider: Almost no commercial firm will distribute your work unless you can show that you are the sole and 100% copyright holder.
Distributing something that the 3D-model is only part of (like a complete map) is fine however, as listed in the next paragraph.
Thanks for that Mark.
The things I'm getting from Cornucopia are randomly generated 3D models. You buy a pine tree, for example, and its put in your tree library. Then when you press the tree button the tree library opens up and you can choose the pine tree. A randomly generated member of that species is then generated for your scene. If you press the button again and add another pine tree another randomly generated pine tree is added to your scene. The two trees are not the same. Each and every individual tree that is generated is unique.
Couple that with the fact that you can move the camera around just one of those two trees and render an image at any angle you please, with any number of infinite atmospheric settings for each and every shot. In short the 'product' I'm buying and downloading is the information that tells Vue how to grow a pine tree, and the only pictures that exist are those which I chose to render from the virtual scene - with my own stage settings - background, atmosphere... etc.
The situation to me is a little muddy about whether the creator of the pine tree 'seed' that gave rise to the uniquely individual pine trees on my screen is the copyright owner or not.
I'm really confused, now, but I don't want to get into any more trouble, so I'll go back and delete the trees from this and other threads, and have a jolly hard think about whether its just too dangerous to share these images at all.
...
The Genetica EULA is totally different and very user friendly. They make it clear that textures rendered using their software, even when they are based on the legacy textures delivered as a source library, are entirely the property of the user to give or sell at will. I am confident it will be all right for me to leave the textures I have posted here and at the Guild freely accessible.
3. Third Party Rights
E-on software does not provide you with any rights or warranties whatsoever as to the use of any names, trademarks, service marks, or works of authorship that may be represented in the Product and it is your sole responsibility to secure from any and all third parties having or owning rights in or to said names, trade marks, service marks, or works of authorship any and all necessary rights or consent that may be required for your particular use of the Product. You agree to defend, indemnify, and hold e-on software harmless against all liability resulting from or related to any claim of patent or copyright infringement, misappropriation, or misuse of trade secrets or other proprietary rights, actions, or proceedings arising out of your use of the Product or any portion thereof, in whatever form, or other provisions of this Agreement.
The problem here is, that we don't even know if there's any Third Party content in what you're using.
This has all got to be too much for me to sort out. I'm going through my threads deleting the tree symbols, and I'm not even sure I will use them in my own maps now.
Cornucopia says you can use their objects and place them in larger graphics (such as maps) that you've made, but you can't redistribute their stuff. There's certainly nothing wrong with:
1) Using their stuff in maps
2) Or using your modifications of their graphics in your maps
But you appear not to be allowed to redistribute symbols, etc., that you've made as modifications of their objects.
If any of you come across any isolated tree images I haven't already deleted, please can you let me know, or, if you are a moderator, please can you delete the image from the thread.
I think I've got them all already - I only had them in two places (I think) this thread and the Bloodrock thread. I will go and check the Merelan City thread, but I think the trees on that one are all ones I drew from scratch myself, so they don't matter.
Thanks for all your help this evening both of you!
I am sitting on collections of symbols where I cannot even show people the finished map (or at least not unless the resolution is to low for them to actually use the map for anything, so forget about posting it here for people to admire the details.
I guess the reasoning behind this is mainly that they do not want people to to make money (or even compete with them by giving away stuff) that is basically just their own stuff rendered, but they are fine with people using it in complete works, because you cannot really extract and reconstruct their assets from a complete image/animation.
The problematic license is only the Cornucopia objects though, right, not the stuff provided with Vue, which uses a different license if I understood you correctly?
After this little disaster I re-read the Vue EULA (attached for the curious)
I don't really understand it, because it doesn't mention Vue Pioneer, which is the free version I have, but it seems I may have a similar problem there.
The long and the short of it is that it looks like I will have to purchase the professional version of Vue if I wish to incorporate any renders of their objects (that's like taking a photograph of a 3D scene) into book covers and maps, which was my original goal when I started making maps back in May - to do my own book graphics for my novels.
I don't think I can even use the trees and boats and things I've rendered from Vue in any of the maps I put up on my author's webpage, even though over the process of the last few months I have spent about £40 getting the bare minimum add ons to the freebie version to make it possible to manipulate such objects and make them usable. The pro version is over a thousand £s worth of kit. So I really am stuck up a gum tree.
Life is just so wonderful sometimes! LOL!
In general, making symbols (for others to use) is a can of worms, because they are high-resolution exports of a single object, and most companies are not allowing you to do that with the assets they provide, even for very expensive packages you will need to watch out for limitations such as this one. In particular, they are usually happy to let you use their assets as part of your creation (even if it is composed of just an arrangements of their assets), but they don't allow export/redistribution of a single asset on it's own (Where asset can be 3D-model, formula, symbol, font, etc).
To be on the safe side, you'll need to draw things yourself, or the very least, make sure the symbol produced is much more than a rendering of a stock object with minor modifications (Generated by formula or not, algorithms are also protected).
I found the Vue EULA a bit confusing though. The best way to get clear answers is to contact their legal department though, and provide them with a clear and detailed questions for what you wish to do, especially when it comes to the book cover thing.
Although some of the tree symbols I have made are a long way removed from the original - I've changed leaf sets and altered bark textures etc, and many of them are made up from more than one tree symbol - there is the problem of vagary in that one stipulation. Since substantially altered means different things to different people, I simply can't take that risk.
EDIT: I'm going to use just the original map of Ethran as the one and only official map for my first novel, and may even have part of it on the cover of the book (if that's ok) instead of the comparatively crude graphic I prepared before I came across Profantasy.
Providing there's no problem with the 'map on the cover' idea, I will continue by making just the regional maps with standard overland styles the same all the way throughout the series.
However, as Mark has earlier pointed out, you have the CSUAC, against which my tiny would-be contribution would have been a mere pinprick of additional variety.
"The moral of this story, the moral of this song, is simply that one should never be where one does not belong."
Making symbols, fill styles etc. with someone else's content is a very hairy business that's best to avoid unless one has an iron-clad license right to do so.
Overnight I got a couple of E-Mail inquiries about the things we distribute. The EULAs for Bogie's Mapping Objects, the CSUAC 2 and the Dundjinni Archives do not give one the right to distribute modified material based on their content EXCEPT when the Dundjinni Archives method I described above is used. This is not a policy of the Vintyri Project. This material belongs to other people who have set their own conditions. We simply distribute their content with authorization.
With our own Vintyri Cartographic Collection, the opposite is true. You specifically may modify our work and distribute and even sell the modifications on two conditions:
1) You include a copy of the Open Game License 1.0a with your distribution.
2) Your modifications remain Open Game Content (i.e. are not declared Product Identity).