Congratulations on your map matching! That is really good work. The only thing I'm thinking about is the extra paper at the top of the map. Wouldn't your man trim it off so the pigeon has less weight attached to it's ankles? I know that some would have to stay on it to keep weather off of it. But I think some would have to be cut off. Other than that, your stuff is fantastic!
Posted By: Nacon4Congratulations on your map matching! That isreally goodwork. The only thing I'm thinking about is the extra paper at the top of the map. Wouldn't your man trim it off so the pigeon has less weight attached to it's ankles? I know that some would have to stay on it to keep weather off of it. But I think some would have to be cut off. Other than that, your stuff is fantastic!
LLAP
Nacon4
Thanks Ed
I initially trebled the height because there were 3 maps. I forgot that I wouldn't need to repeat the instructions three times over, so removing the repeats was what gave me all that extra space at the top.
I'm not going to trim it off just yet, however, since I may need to nudge the map upwards in several places just to make room for a few more 'in situ' annotations.
I've got a couple of concept problems right now:
1. The number of lateral folds means that folding it vertically would be pretty difficult to achieve, and would in any case reverse the bend of the lateral folds. That's an effect too far for me to master just yet in terms of modifying the texture to suit. So I will probably have to do away with the vertical fold. That means the map really is very tiny - no wider than the length of an index finger to fit in the pigeon's rucksack - which means that some of the other fill effects are off scale. For example the watercolour wash effect now looks wrong when you imagine the map at its new tiny size.
2. Although the route maps drawn by John Ogilby illustrated routes in a direction heading up the page from the bottom (which is why I have done the same), It feels pretty weird having to start at the bottom of a piece of paper and work upwards. This leads to the closing question:
Do you think the map should be entirely the other way up - ie, start at the top and work downwards as you progress on the route... or even sideways from left to right, since that is the easterly direction of the journey?
I think that the up/down problems with the map went entirely with the idea that he's probably trying to fit in as much detail as possible in the shortest amount of space in conditions that are not at all ideal. So he had to turn it around to get everything on the map! Do you see what I'm trying to say? Just imagine yourself in a cramped small space drawing like mad, trying desperately to keep his pigeons alive (if not necessarily himself) and keeping a monster from eating you at the same time. Sometimes (like those) the best is the enemy of the good.
I'll stick with journeying up from the bottom, then. I can always turn it entirely the other way up if necessary
After all the fascinating input (and quite a bit of contributed hard work in terms of research), I think it would be a shame to not at least try to write a short story about it. There are already enough subplots and ideas to open it up for a full blown novel, though I'm not sure what the market value of spending a couple of months writing it would be - there being so many young persons books about dragons and stuff out there already.
Posted By: LoopysueI think it would be a shame to not at least try to write a short story about it
Sounds interesting, although I think a RPG adventure would be even better (Market is much more tricky though). I can just see the starting scene where Arramatapo comes asking the Player Characters for help after receiving this troubling letter/map from his father. Seems like an opportunity for much adventure
Quite a lot of the people who frequent this forums are game masters, most of whom should be qualified to write adventures. I am not sure who many have experience in publishing them though, as opposed to just writing adventures for their players.
The Chronicles of Errispa are fully planned and laid out ready for writing. Ethran, Merelan City, the Observatory - these are all maps for the first of a 5 part series of novels that were to be my first published works. The Henge Portal, Gymnopus P and the Arramatapo letter are all things that have happened quite separately to the intended writing plan, as a result of my growing interest in maps generally, but the Arramatapo letter in particular has taken on a life of its own.
The idea that Remy presented is not one that occurred to me before, but thinking about it makes sense. Its sitting here on a site that specialises in RPG map making, and many of the participants to this thread are Game Masters, so the direction the idea has taken (as I have deliberately allowed myself to be steered by suggestions because it was more fun than working alone) may well be more suited to an RPG adventure than a novel. The trouble is that I really don't have a clue about RPG - never mind how to create and publish a new RPG adventure. I wouldn't even know what one looks like, or what it contains! LOL
The darker side of me wants to selfishly go and hide away in some secluded retreat and write the novel with all these new ideas I've been given, and part of me wants to carry on the development of the Arramatapo letter as a community thing - now with the possibility of turning it into either a novel, or a new RPG Adventure.
Trouble is, I haven't a clue where to start on the latter.
Sue: Preparing RPG scenarios is somewhat like writing a novel, but you have far less control over who the characters in it may be, what they can do, and more critically, where they may decide to take the adventure. The classic comment most Game Masters (GMs) are familiar with is a variant on, "I'd prepared the adventure pretty well, I thought, but then the party turned LEFT instead of RIGHT at the junction in the trail..." As a GM, you get used to having to improvise without making it look that way. Then when it comes to writing scenarios down, there's a tendency to script the key pieces quite closely (places, events, people, etc.), provide briefer sketches for the lesser items (people the party are less likely to meet, places they may not visit, etc.), and leave much of the rest to perhaps a simple area map showing the general terrain layout, with maybe a series of tables for potential encounters (which don't have to be story-critical events, monster encounters, or such, but might be things like unusual weather, or someone falling over a lump in the trail - which might turn out to be a completely unrelated sidetrack (trapdoor to a subterranean tomb, say) - or might be just a moment of light relief along the way, and so forth). It's then down to the GM running the adventure to decide either in advance or during play, whether other elements need developing further or not from these guidelines. So, a kind of free-form short-story in some respects.
There are a lot of published adventures available online now in various places, a mix of paid-for and free items. However, as you're something of a novice in this respect, the quantity may seem overwhelming, and you may feel intimidated if you aren't familiar with the specific RPG rules involved. As it says on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy though - DON'T PANIC! Since your interest is strongly in the artwork, I'd suggest taking a look through some of the One Page Dungeon contest entries. This link will take you to the 2016 Gallery page, where you can see thumbnails of all the entries (there are a LOT, so don't be put off!); if you click on those, you can view each in turn on-screen. However, if you go to the One Page Dungeon homepage, you can also find a link to access PDF versions of every entry (it's labelled "Click for Original Entry Files"), if you'd prefer something you can download and view offline later.
Among the reasons I suggest these items are: a) the one-page format forces the creators to condense things, so in essence they are scenario sketches, which are quick to read and understand (if properly done); b) they tend to mix both text and sketches, maps, etc., which is not dissimilar to what you've been doing already with this Letter; c) they're often not system specific, and so don't tend to include complexities like monster statistic blocks for specific RPGs (which can look pretty daunting sometimes); d) they provide an interesting variety of settings and interpretations; and e) they're free! I won't pretend this is the perfect solution, but it might be a useful place to start.
I'd half-guessed there'd be some kind of preparation needed to draw/paint on silk that wouldn't be readily available in the circumstances. Sizing-up the seize is always a problem for working with parchment as well, of course. So paper it is then...
Love the strip-map! If the folds are causing you concern, why not remove them and have it be simply rolled into something like the back-tube on the wartime pigeon photo? You could add a shading effect and adjust the ends to look as if they're scrolling "up" a little, maybe?
As for the labelling, I'd like to see more of the labels at different angles. Halfway-ish along the strip, he might have them running longitudinally, so as not to smudge what he'd already drawn/written, for example, or they might all be "inverted" after the first segment (coast), if he was working "down" the strip that way, again to avoid smudging what had been done already. I really like the way the labels are angled more "naturally" at the coast end of the strip though, and I'd be tempted to do more of the same all the way through (even if that might not make so much sense logically, just because it looks more interesting!).
I can already tell that I would in fact be pretty useless at creating a viable RPG adventure!
However, I don't see that there's a problem with a parallel development of some kind - I can work on a novella/novel, and if anyone feels like they just can't leave it to rot, I don't see that there's a problem with a more adept person developing an RPG adventure from it. They don't necessarily have to be the same - could in fact contradict one another without too much harm to either project. It might be interesting to see just how different they become in the end
Well, without actually playing any RPGs, it would very likely be prohibitively difficult to create a playable adventure. It's no reflection on the skill or talent of the author, it's just that its kind of like writing a complex recipe without knowing how to cook.
So, what you are saying is that we need to get Sue into playing RPG's? Her wonderful mapping talent and storytelling skills would probably make her a fine gamemaster.
And it varies by group. My home players typically were inventive and listened. Many of the game store players would go off on tangents, or insist there was a secret door where there was none. I had the map, I should know if there was a secret door there or not. Anyway, I had fun most of the time.
Posted By: JimPAnd it varies by group. My home players typically were inventive and listened. Many of the game store players would go off on tangents, or insist there was a secret door where there was none. I had the map, I should know if there was a secret door there or not. Anyway, I had fun most of the time.
Aye yes, but you have the rather shady reputation of being one of the meanest... cruellest... most horriblist of Game Masters. You told me that yourself! LOL
So... putting a whole lot of grave markers on the map with nice obvious crew-type names on them isn't' going to keep them out of the danger zones in search of this treasure?
Posted By: LoopysueI'm a novelist... (at least, that's what I've set my heart on)
Well, writing RPG Adventures is still writing stories. They're just a bit more interactive with variable endings. But the storytelling that happens between gamemaster and players are actually quite interesting.
My weakness as a novelist (not the only one) is failing to nail the plot down for long enough to finish the writing. It just keeps changing - moving around like one of those massive broken power cables in super-hero movies. By the time I'm half way through, I change my mind about something early on, and that has a domino effect that grows exponentially right through the rest of the story.
I have a really hard time sticking to my own plots. I'd be lost with a whole team of other people dragging me in a number of different directions - no use, in other words.
The fun thing about the game is that once something has been played, it is set in stone, and forever part of the story. No going back and changing it later, even if it didn't turn out the way you intended (And it won't, players will see to that). Writing for RPG's is all about creating interesting places though, and that is really what I find so interesting about this map, it is so full of possibilities, so full of interesting stories. The map does a good job of hinting at adventure, without providing absolute details.
Posted By: MonsenThe fun thing about the game is that once something has been played, it is set in stone, and forever part of the story. No going back and changing it later, even if it didn't turn out the way you intended.
LOL! I don't know whether I could cope with not being able to change stuff. It limits what you can do in the future. I suppose I could get around that by inventing a parallel universe to dump everyone in - one with a new version of history.
Posted By: MonsenWriting for RPG's is all about creating interesting places though, and that is really what I find so interesting about this map, it is so full of possibilities, so full of interesting stories. The map does a good job of hinting at adventure, without providing absolute details.
Thanks, Remy
Its a curious thing that what you see as potential in one way I see in a completely different way. I see the vagaries as embryonic plot evolution - something that has to be developed to a single concrete conclusion, which is different to what you mean.
However, I don't mind if you want to borrow a few ideas. There are plenty more where they came from.
I've yet to unveil the Palace of Urrowan - the map I need to set about doing after I've finished Merelan City
Comments
Half way through conversion - the ribbon map.
Sometimes... I do the weirdest stuff without even trying!
LLAP
Nacon4
I initially trebled the height because there were 3 maps. I forgot that I wouldn't need to repeat the instructions three times over, so removing the repeats was what gave me all that extra space at the top.
I'm not going to trim it off just yet, however, since I may need to nudge the map upwards in several places just to make room for a few more 'in situ' annotations.
I've got a couple of concept problems right now:
1. The number of lateral folds means that folding it vertically would be pretty difficult to achieve, and would in any case reverse the bend of the lateral folds. That's an effect too far for me to master just yet in terms of modifying the texture to suit. So I will probably have to do away with the vertical fold. That means the map really is very tiny - no wider than the length of an index finger to fit in the pigeon's rucksack - which means that some of the other fill effects are off scale. For example the watercolour wash effect now looks wrong when you imagine the map at its new tiny size.
2. Although the route maps drawn by John Ogilby illustrated routes in a direction heading up the page from the bottom (which is why I have done the same), It feels pretty weird having to start at the bottom of a piece of paper and work upwards. This leads to the closing question:
Do you think the map should be entirely the other way up - ie, start at the top and work downwards as you progress on the route... or even sideways from left to right, since that is the easterly direction of the journey?
I think the idea of as is, is perfect.
LLAP
Nacon4
Edit: I, too, hope this is for a book!
I'll stick with journeying up from the bottom, then. I can always turn it entirely the other way up if necessary
After all the fascinating input (and quite a bit of contributed hard work in terms of research), I think it would be a shame to not at least try to write a short story about it. There are already enough subplots and ideas to open it up for a full blown novel, though I'm not sure what the market value of spending a couple of months writing it would be - there being so many young persons books about dragons and stuff out there already.
I wonder if there's someone with enough experience in the industry who would be interested in taking it down that road - someone here, perhaps?
If not, then I'll write a story to go with it. Not sure how to host it though, since I don't have a website (not yet anyway).
The idea that Remy presented is not one that occurred to me before, but thinking about it makes sense. Its sitting here on a site that specialises in RPG map making, and many of the participants to this thread are Game Masters, so the direction the idea has taken (as I have deliberately allowed myself to be steered by suggestions because it was more fun than working alone) may well be more suited to an RPG adventure than a novel. The trouble is that I really don't have a clue about RPG - never mind how to create and publish a new RPG adventure. I wouldn't even know what one looks like, or what it contains! LOL
The darker side of me wants to selfishly go and hide away in some secluded retreat and write the novel with all these new ideas I've been given, and part of me wants to carry on the development of the Arramatapo letter as a community thing - now with the possibility of turning it into either a novel, or a new RPG Adventure.
Trouble is, I haven't a clue where to start on the latter.
There are a lot of published adventures available online now in various places, a mix of paid-for and free items. However, as you're something of a novice in this respect, the quantity may seem overwhelming, and you may feel intimidated if you aren't familiar with the specific RPG rules involved. As it says on the cover of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy though - DON'T PANIC! Since your interest is strongly in the artwork, I'd suggest taking a look through some of the One Page Dungeon contest entries. This link will take you to the 2016 Gallery page, where you can see thumbnails of all the entries (there are a LOT, so don't be put off!); if you click on those, you can view each in turn on-screen. However, if you go to the One Page Dungeon homepage, you can also find a link to access PDF versions of every entry (it's labelled "Click for Original Entry Files"), if you'd prefer something you can download and view offline later.
Among the reasons I suggest these items are: a) the one-page format forces the creators to condense things, so in essence they are scenario sketches, which are quick to read and understand (if properly done); b) they tend to mix both text and sketches, maps, etc., which is not dissimilar to what you've been doing already with this Letter; c) they're often not system specific, and so don't tend to include complexities like monster statistic blocks for specific RPGs (which can look pretty daunting sometimes); d) they provide an interesting variety of settings and interpretations; and e) they're free! I won't pretend this is the perfect solution, but it might be a useful place to start.
I'd half-guessed there'd be some kind of preparation needed to draw/paint on silk that wouldn't be readily available in the circumstances. Sizing-up the seize is always a problem for working with parchment as well, of course. So paper it is then...
Love the strip-map! If the folds are causing you concern, why not remove them and have it be simply rolled into something like the back-tube on the wartime pigeon photo? You could add a shading effect and adjust the ends to look as if they're scrolling "up" a little, maybe?
As for the labelling, I'd like to see more of the labels at different angles. Halfway-ish along the strip, he might have them running longitudinally, so as not to smudge what he'd already drawn/written, for example, or they might all be "inverted" after the first segment (coast), if he was working "down" the strip that way, again to avoid smudging what had been done already. I really like the way the labels are angled more "naturally" at the coast end of the strip though, and I'd be tempted to do more of the same all the way through (even if that might not make so much sense logically, just because it looks more interesting!).
I can already tell that I would in fact be pretty useless at creating a viable RPG adventure!
However, I don't see that there's a problem with a parallel development of some kind - I can work on a novella/novel, and if anyone feels like they just can't leave it to rot, I don't see that there's a problem with a more adept person developing an RPG adventure from it. They don't necessarily have to be the same - could in fact contradict one another without too much harm to either project. It might be interesting to see just how different they become in the end
ROFL!
As a not very good distraction technique I've got the first proper ribbon map version here for you to look at
My weakness as a novelist (not the only one) is failing to nail the plot down for long enough to finish the writing. It just keeps changing - moving around like one of those massive broken power cables in super-hero movies. By the time I'm half way through, I change my mind about something early on, and that has a domino effect that grows exponentially right through the rest of the story.
I have a really hard time sticking to my own plots. I'd be lost with a whole team of other people dragging me in a number of different directions - no use, in other words.
Its a curious thing that what you see as potential in one way I see in a completely different way. I see the vagaries as embryonic plot evolution - something that has to be developed to a single concrete conclusion, which is different to what you mean.
However, I don't mind if you want to borrow a few ideas. There are plenty more where they came from.
I've yet to unveil the Palace of Urrowan - the map I need to set about doing after I've finished Merelan City
the larger version is here:
Bigger version