Catalogues...

Loopysue · September 2016

I've made my first catalogue. It has 130 shrubs in it (all sadly about the same but different colours and shapes), and its causing CC3+ to run very slowly.

Is it the number of symbols, or the resolution I've done them at that's causing the problem.

(The symbols are all 2000 x 2000 pi... I did it without really thinking!)

Dogtag · September 2016

Yeah, that's extremely high resolution. Typically, symbols for city maps should be around 40 pixels per map unit (overland map symbols should be ~ 20px/mu and dungeon/battle map symbols ~ 100px/mu). So for a city map that uses feet as a map unit, a tree with a canopy that's, say, 20 feet across, should have a width of around 800 pixels. You don't have to use those ratios, but it's usually considered a best practice. At the very least, all symbols in a catalogue (or preferably, for a style) should use the same ratio — which I'm sure you've done — whatever ratio you choose.

Check out pp. 87-89 of the Tome of Ultimate Mapping, particularly pp. 87-88. They discuss symbol resolution, including how to have CC3 create multiple resolutions of your imported PNGs (VL, LO, HI, and VH).

Cheers,
~Dogtag

Loopysue · September 2016

Thanks for responding Dogtag.

I imported them all at 40 pixels per map unit and did everything according to Joe Sweeny's instructions - including generating multiple resolutions. The trees appear to be ideally sized (which was a bit of a surprise, since I guessed)

I'm thinking the MC map is already a little on the slow side, and having a really large symbol set active on top of all the other symbol definitions is maybe the straw that broke the camels back?

Dogtag · September 2016

I'm pretty sure the catalogue has nothing to do with it. CC3 and the add-ons don't load all the symbols from a catalogue into the map. In fact, although I'm not 100% sure about the raster symbols, back in the vector days, it didn't even load each symbol.

Presuming raster symbols are handled similarly, if not the same (and yes, I'm guessing), CC3 should store one symbol definition per symbol that had been placed in the map. If you use a symbol more than once, CC3 does some behind-the-scenes magic to reference that symbol. This would be much the same way that an entity using a bitmap fill made of a 50x50 px image doesn't contain multiple copies of the bitmap fill file. It uses the bitmap fill once and then duplicates it where needed.

That said, duplicating a bunch of stuff, particularly of the enormous size of your MC map, does eventually eat up memory and resources. But it shouldn't have anything to do with the catalogue itself, or the unused symbols it contains.

Cheers,
~Dogtag

Loopysue · September 2016

It must just be having a bad day, I guess.

Thanks Dogtag

Dogtag · September 2016

Here's a thought. Did you purge unused symbols from the map, via the Symbol Manager? I believe CC3 stores and keeps a copy of every symbol placed on the map, even if a symbol is later deleted. Someone smarter than me can confirm or correct that assertion.

If so, anything you previously deleted could still be stored in the map (well, one instance of each symbol, that is).

Cheers,
~Dogtag

JimP · September 2016

I would also shut off the computer for about 5 minutes and then start back up. Sometimes a computer will leave various data in memory, and in Windows what is called the memory store becomes fragmented, and programs think there is no room left in ram. So a reboot or shut down is required.

To get technical: where Windows, ans some other operating systems, place items into memory is kept in a pointer data base in memory. This tells the computer where the software starts and ends. After several hours, or days depending on the software and operating system, the operating system thinks no room left in ram to place a program and/or data... so it pages data and programs in and out of the ram. This is very slow. A shut down, and most of the time a reboot, resets this temporary in ram only database, and all is well again... until it does it again.

If that isn't it, and likely a purge should fix it.

Vintyri · September 2016

Posted By: DogtagHere's a thought. Did you purge unused symbols from the map, via the Symbol Manager? I believe CC3 stores and keeps a copy of every symbol placed on the map, even if a symbol is later deleted. Someone smarter than me can confirm or correct that assertion.

It stores only a reference to the location of the symbol on the hard drive, not the symbol itself.

Dogtag · September 2016

Dogtag presciently wrote:Someone smarter than me can confirm or correct that assertion.

Then Vintyri replied:It stores only a reference to the location of the symbol on the hard drive, not the symbol itself.

There you go. Which makes sense, considering the red Xs. No worries then. It was just a thought.

Loopysue · September 2016

Hey everyone - thanks.

I already purged the unused symbols anyway.

I'm going to take a bit of a break and get this book finished now, but I will be back.

Thanks to all of you and your help. It won't be wasted

ProFantasy Community Forum

Catalogues...

Comments