How very odd. Hmmmn... were you able to see the larger image on the Merelan City thread?
Just asking, because the link I used for that one takes you to the thread, and not directly to the image. I think Robbie (site owner/admin) has made sure its not that easy to access full sized graphics unless its through the thread itself.
Try this link (its to the post instead of directly to the image it contains):
Hey Charles! Your link led to a map smaller than this one. Sorry!
Did you freehand the paths coming up to the gates of the fort? What fill did you use? And what's in that little space in the southeastern corner? The little open glade?
Are you going to leave the turned soil for the crops inside the fort the same color as the soil surrounding it? And is it's current color mean it's permafrost?
Just curious!
LLAP
Nacon4
Yes, I freehanded the paths. I prefer using a poly than the straight lines.
I will have to look up the fill that I used. I have other questions about what all I was using and I will put together a list of everything I used, what I used it for and where it came from.
It is not permafrost, it is the end of winter / beginning of spring in Sutheimr, and there is still snow on the ground at this point. They have a short growing season compared to the realms to the south.
The area in the southeastern part of the map is a holy site where the priest sacrifices animals (and sometimes humans).
I have not made up my mind on how I will approach the garden area yet.
Posted By: LoopysueHow very odd. Hmmmn... were you able to see the larger image on the Merelan City thread?
Just asking, because the link I used for that one takes you to the thread, and not directly to the image. I think Robbie (site owner/admin) has made sure its not that easy to access full sized graphics unless its through the thread itself.
Try this link (its to the post instead of directly to the image it contains):
No, I only saw an image that was smaller then the one you posted here on the forum. Now when I went to view Charles image. I did see one; but it was no bigger than the one I saw here on the forum; and it did come from a thumbnail on the cartographersguild site. But again, it was no larger than the one Charles had on this site.
Posted By: CharlesWayneRobinsonI just double checked, it works without a password just fine. ;-)
I don't know what to tell you, Charles. Could it be IP checking, just to make sure no bandwidth is wasted with non-member requests to see hi-res images? Just a guess on my part.
The direct links to the image works perfectly for me (FireFox, IE, Edge). That is, I believe they have referrer checking, so you can't make a clickable link, but just copying the link to the image into my address bar works perfectly fine. For reference, note that I am NOT a member of CG either.
Sorry to hear you've been unwell. I hope you feel better soon.
I really like this map, particularly the style of it. The colors look great and it's starting to look like something out of [dear, departed] Dungeon magazine.
I do agree with Monsen, however, that it looks a little too squared off to me. I think something with fewer (or no) right angles might give it more of an "organic" feel. Also, there seem to be a lot of gates into the village. One, or maybe two, I understand but more than that and it seems increasingly difficult to defend the village.
There's a decent amount of space at the top (north?) of the map. Do you plan to put something in particular up there? I'm just curious.
I look forward to seeing more as you progress. In the meantime, get well!
I'm sorry to hear that you've been feeling under the weather as well, and I likewise hope that you manage to beat it off in the not too distant future.
There's a lot of promise in this map, but I also have to agree with Monsen and Dogtag that the buildings are a little too perfectly lined up - all of them orientated perfectly north-south, or east-west.
If there is a slope, or a hill anywhere in the area maybe it would be easier to visualize the unevenness of the land and try to 'flow' the buildings into the contours of that shape.
Its only a suggestion because I'm probably not making a lot of sense, since I think in pictures more often than words
That "squareness" is something that I will have to address. As said before, the buildings were placed to give me some ideas and to set the scale. These are not the locations that they will be in when completed; except for the main building. Unfortunately, I will not be able to do that with the wood wall.
There will be an area for grazing north of the village with a tree line at the edge. The northeastern side of the map will have some high ground, woods and rocky ground.
Fortifications tend to have only one or two entrances, but settlements tend to have more. They are used for various reasons: Trade, access to farms or grazing areas, bolt-holes to allow the occupants to escape, and as sally points to flank attackers. Small Viking settlements where typically fortified with a rounded wall with only a few towers and one gate. Often there was no wall along the river since the river acted as both a defensible barrier and an escape route. Larger settlements sometimes had square walls and did have multiple gates/doors.
The options that I have for walls are limited though, so I am stuck with the square wall and they have been here now for hundreds of years, so the design does not have to exactly match. The settlement that I chose to represent comes from far up in the Veidrmader Holt and the waterway there is just a little more than a creek. As such, they have a wall all the way around. In addition, most of the actions that they would see would be small scale; such as a small band of Trolls that have wondered down from the mountains (which will actually be depicted as part of the "living" map design concept).
Their fortresses were known for their symmetry and precision as well as their advanced construction techniques that we have already discussed. Consider recent excavations of Fyrkat, a Viking-Age circular fortress of the Trelleborg-type close to Hobro, North Jutland, Denmark. Fyrkat consists of a circular rampart with an internal diameter of 120 meters and a width of almost 12 meters. It was built as an earth-filled timber structure with inner and outer faces and with four gates at the four points of the compass. Concentric with the rampart are two smaller parts of a dry ditch with a V-shaped section at a depth of about 2 meters. The interior of the fortress was divided into four sections by two linear streets connecting the four gates. In each section, there were four timber-built long houses, lying close to one another around a courtyard. Inside the courtyard was a rectangular house measuring about 5 meters by 10 meters. The long houses had slightly bowed walls with almost straight gables. Their length was just over 28 meters, with a width at the centre of just over 7 meters, falling to 5 meters at the gables.
I think I may have read that article! I can't be certain but it has a lot of info I remember reading a few years ago. I did some (not a lot, but some) research on Viking culture after Clercon posted one of his awesome maps, which he said was inspired by Viking settlements.
Funnily enough, he posted it shortly after the History Channel series, Vikings, aired it's first season. I hadn't watched it at that point but the map and the research made me curious. And then, of course, I started researching Ragnar Lothbrok and wondered why I'd never heard of him before, given everything he did! Also, of course, I now love the show.
Here is some more information that I found out about Viking Architecture:
"Timber buildings set in plots of equal size suggest a degree of town planning, while the debris from workshops tells of urban industries such as leather-working, bone comb-making, textiles and metalworking."
I took a break from working on the walls and worked on the gardens and the village buildings.
The garden is done (remember, it is just the beginning of the Spring and they live far to the north. As such nothing is planted yet).
The buildings are not done yet. One building still needs the sod/turf roof, most of the living quarters still needs the smoke holes and the smoke. Some of the sheds still needs shading.
I love the new arrangement, Charles. It looks much better - more natural. Are you going to put a few muddy tracks in around the village... and of course down to the river?
I don't know if I'm just looking at it wrong, but aren't the boats and the bridges just a tiny bit on the small side compared to the village houses? I'm a bit confused about just how big each of those dwellings really is. Are they all relatively large extended family lodges of some kind?
I may have to play with the scale of the people some. We have storage buildings (small tan buildings), dwellings (extended family plus slaves - various sod covered buildings), barns (long buildings with tan roofs), and the great hall (largest building in the center with sod roof).
Small ones looks most realistically, but without knowing the dimension of your houses it is difficult to give a definitive answer. I would simply decide on the size of a house, and measure that against the length of a horse to get a good answer.
Comments
LLAP
Nacon4
Just asking, because the link I used for that one takes you to the thread, and not directly to the image. I think Robbie (site owner/admin) has made sure its not that easy to access full sized graphics unless its through the thread itself.
Try this link (its to the post instead of directly to the image it contains):
https://www.cartographersguild.com/showthread.php?t=35316&page=2&p=313148&viewfull=1#post313148
LLAP
Nacon4
The other link still works well for those who are guild members. :-)
LLAP
Nacon4
I am not sure why you are unable to get to is. :-)
It is getting there. :-)
I have been real sick this week and I am finally starting to feel better.
Here is the larger version: https://www.cartographersguild.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87425&d=1473389462
I really like this map, particularly the style of it. The colors look great and it's starting to look like something out of [dear, departed] Dungeon magazine.
I do agree with Monsen, however, that it looks a little too squared off to me. I think something with fewer (or no) right angles might give it more of an "organic" feel. Also, there seem to be a lot of gates into the village. One, or maybe two, I understand but more than that and it seems increasingly difficult to defend the village.
There's a decent amount of space at the top (north?) of the map. Do you plan to put something in particular up there? I'm just curious.
I look forward to seeing more as you progress. In the meantime, get well!
Cheers,
~Dogtag
There's a lot of promise in this map, but I also have to agree with Monsen and Dogtag that the buildings are a little too perfectly lined up - all of them orientated perfectly north-south, or east-west.
If there is a slope, or a hill anywhere in the area maybe it would be easier to visualize the unevenness of the land and try to 'flow' the buildings into the contours of that shape.
Its only a suggestion because I'm probably not making a lot of sense, since I think in pictures more often than words
That "squareness" is something that I will have to address.
As said before, the buildings were placed to give me some ideas and to set the scale.
These are not the locations that they will be in when completed; except for the main building.
Unfortunately, I will not be able to do that with the wood wall.
There will be an area for grazing north of the village with a tree line at the edge.
The northeastern side of the map will have some high ground, woods and rocky ground.
Fortifications tend to have only one or two entrances, but settlements tend to have more.
They are used for various reasons: Trade, access to farms or grazing areas, bolt-holes to allow the occupants to escape, and as sally points to flank attackers.
Small Viking settlements where typically fortified with a rounded wall with only a few towers and one gate.
Often there was no wall along the river since the river acted as both a defensible barrier and an escape route.
Larger settlements sometimes had square walls and did have multiple gates/doors.
The options that I have for walls are limited though, so I am stuck with the square wall and they have been here now for hundreds of years, so the design does not have to exactly match.
The settlement that I chose to represent comes from far up in the Veidrmader Holt and the waterway there is just a little more than a creek.
As such, they have a wall all the way around.
In addition, most of the actions that they would see would be small scale; such as a small band of Trolls that have wondered down from the mountains (which will actually be depicted as part of the "living" map design concept).
Keep the great ideas coming! :-)
Their fortresses were known for their symmetry and precision as well as their advanced construction techniques that we have already discussed. Consider recent excavations of Fyrkat, a Viking-Age circular fortress of the Trelleborg-type close to Hobro, North Jutland, Denmark. Fyrkat consists of a circular rampart with an internal diameter of 120 meters and a width of almost 12 meters. It was built as an earth-filled timber structure with inner and outer faces and with four gates at the four points of the compass. Concentric with the rampart are two smaller parts of a dry ditch with a V-shaped section at a depth of about 2 meters. The interior of the fortress was divided into four sections by two linear streets connecting the four gates. In each section, there were four timber-built long houses, lying close to one another around a courtyard. Inside the courtyard was a rectangular house measuring about 5 meters by 10 meters. The long houses had slightly bowed walls with almost straight gables. Their length was just over 28 meters, with a width at the centre of just over 7 meters, falling to 5 meters at the gables.
Funnily enough, he posted it shortly after the History Channel series, Vikings, aired it's first season. I hadn't watched it at that point but the map and the research made me curious. And then, of course, I started researching Ragnar Lothbrok and wondered why I'd never heard of him before, given everything he did! Also, of course, I now love the show.
Cheers,
~Dogtag
"Timber buildings set in plots of equal size suggest a degree of town planning, while the debris from workshops tells of urban industries such as leather-working, bone comb-making, textiles and metalworking."
Here is the link: http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/ancient/vikings/colonists_01.shtml
Here are some more sources:
http://wideurbanworld.blogspot.com/2011/05/viking-urban-planning.html
http://wideurbanworld.blogspot.com/2016/01/vikinng-houses-in-aarhus-denmark.html
The garden is done (remember, it is just the beginning of the Spring and they live far to the north. As such nothing is planted yet).
The buildings are not done yet. One building still needs the sod/turf roof, most of the living quarters still needs the smoke holes and the smoke. Some of the sheds still needs shading.
Here is the larger version: https://www.cartographersguild.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=87443&d=1473491531
I don't know if I'm just looking at it wrong, but aren't the boats and the bridges just a tiny bit on the small side compared to the village houses? I'm a bit confused about just how big each of those dwellings really is. Are they all relatively large extended family lodges of some kind?
I may have to play with the scale of the people some. We have storage buildings (small tan buildings), dwellings (extended family plus slaves - various sod covered buildings), barns (long buildings with tan roofs), and the great hall (largest building in the center with sod roof).
Below is a close up of the village with people next to the dwellings, barn (top right corner), and the great hall.
There are three different scales.
In you opinion, which scale should I use?
(small, medium, large)
I would simply decide on the size of a house, and measure that against the length of a horse to get a good answer.