Some confusion about DD3 and CC3+

Hey, so I bought the CC3+ package the other day, along with the Dungeons of Schley pack.
I was looking at the Dungeon Designer package too, but frankly, I can't see what it's supposed to do, that CC3+ and Schley don't already do?
I can build dungeons. Have walls, cave floors, doors and so on to choose from.
I tried looking at videos, but they show me nothing I don't already have access to.

So, uhm... What exactly does DD3 do?

Hope someone can help me with my question. I want the most out of my product, but It's a bit confusing, and there's not a lot of info to find anywhere in regards to what the actual difference is =/

Comments

  • While it is possible to make some dungeons with CC3+, it is DD3 that has the tools for making dungeons. And the Schley pack was a bit of extra with CC3+.
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    edited August 2016
    DD3 supplements what you can do in CC3 by automating a lot of tasks. For example, you are correct, you can create walls in CC3 without any trouble, but DD3 gives you the ability to create rooms in one go, if desired (walls and floors, simultaneously), including square, rectangular, irregular, and circular). It includes a hallway tool that lets you connect rooms with a hallway (again, walls and floor simultaneously if desired), as well as the ability to automatically cut the room walls where you attach the hallway. And DD3 includes a host of other drawing tools, additional fill styles (grass, wood, stone, etc), and additional symbols, including door and window symbols that automatically align to the walls where you place them and that can automatically cut the walls when placed as well.

    You can do all of that in CC3 but DD3 makes it quicker and easier. And it includes many more dungeon-related symbols. I think CC3 includes some of the tools I mentioned, and a wall-cutting door, but I think there's just one door symbol compared to DD3's dozen or so. Also, there are some room tools in CC3 but if you want to customize them (different wall and floor fills) then you need to edit the drawing tools or create new ones based on them. Again, not particularly difficult but DD3 makes all of that quick and easy. SS4 (Dungeons of Schley) include some amazing symbols and some draw tools that will help, though.

    I hope that helps,
    ~Dogtag
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    Take it from one who has used CC3+ to create a dungeon type map.

    It is FAR easier to use DD3 for that sort of thing :)
  • edited August 2016
    Thanks a ton! That was exactly the kind of info I was looking for. All the official info is so dreadfully vague.

    While I have your attention, there are two features I've had a hard time googling. Hoping you can help me out.

    I saw an image where the transition from road to grass, was slowly blended. Fading from one to the other.

    Does anyone know of a vid our documentation our something, where I can learn about that?

    And also, is it possible to add a black outline to find you draw?

    I'm obviously selling to imitate Schleys style, since I'm using his symbols.
    So I'm looking for a way to have every element separated by a line. Almost like a cartoon.
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    edited August 2016
    The road transition is probably an edge fade effect, which is accomplished by applying sheet effects. And you can add an outline to most drawn entities (as opposed to pre-drawn symbols), if you want.

    CC3+ has a learning curve but it really does get easier and, once you get used to it, you can do some pretty amazing stuff! It really helps to read the Essentials booklets and follow the tutorials. They're fun and informative. The CC3+ Users Manual has pretty much the same tutorials and goes into more detail. If you like videos, be sure to check out Joe Sweeney's tutorials on YouTube.

    Note that the Essentials booklet has not yet been updated to CC3+ but the differences between CC3 and CC3+ are mostly performance improvements and other "under the hood" changes (faster, and you can generally work with effects turned on in CC3+ without problems). There are some minor differences and the button images changed a little, but they're close enough that it shouldn't make any real difference for the main features and concepts that it discusses. If you find it to be too confusing, however, then just follow the tutorials in the CC3+ User Manual.

    Oh, and welcome to CC3 and the ProFantasy forum!

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
  • JimPJimP 🖼️ 280 images Cartographer
    edited August 2016
    You can add a black outline to things other than symbols, like a color area for a forest, by typing on the command line outlineb and selecting the area then right click and select Do It from the menu. To outline in any color, select the color in the color requestor at the top of CC3/CC3+. Then type outline and select the area then right click and select Do It from the menu.

    Almost forgot. If you add an area using a bitmap fill, under the FS: or fill style menu at the top of CC3/CC3+. What ever you have selected as a color in the color requestor, will be used by the software to outline the bitmap fill.
  • Ooh shiny! Thanks a heap!
    I must confess I'm surprised by how fast and helpful you've all been. Judging by the rather dated appearance of the forums and website, and the age of the video tutorials I've found, I thought I'd be taking to a ghost site, kind of like at Fantasy Grounds.

    But you lot have completely put that assumption to shame.

    Very obliged peeps ^^
  • You're welcome.

    And the Fantasy Grounds guy said he was going to spend more time with his family. He does check their forums.
  • I absolutely get that the FG lads are not a giant operation, and working with indie development myself, I sympathise.
    But at $149 for the ult license, I confess I'm not entirely pleased with the lack of documentaiton, guides, and communication. It's very much on the community to figure everything out. Which isn't a problem pr say... But at $149, I'm just not sure I feel it should be my burdon to also dig through 300+ ancient threads, all relating to an outdated build, just to figure out how the product I bought works.

    But that's neither here nor there. There's a learning curve with CC3+, no doubt, but the forums are active, the guides still surprisingly relevant after all these years, and questions are answered quickly.

    Which leads me to the next bit. Because you peeps made clear what I was missing, I went along and bought the Dungeon Designer set too.
    But I'm running into some trouble.
    When I swap to dungeon mode, all my Schley symbols disappear. Now, I can manually browse through folders to find them again, but every time I change sets, like, from doors to treasure, or the like, the symbols revert back to some other package, who's style clashes with Schley's.

    And when I swap back to the set I was just using, it's reverted too.

    Am I doing something wrong?
  • Nope, it would change back according to what the template has as the default symbol set.

    What I do is, once I get a village or city or overland the way I want it for a particular country, I go to Symbol Manager, upper area of CC3/CC3+, and highlight all of the symbols. I then export that symbol set and give it a name. Copy it to the correct folder for dungeon, city, overland, etc. Then when I start a new map using that template, I load that one symbol set. It will kick back to the original one, but it otherwise works for me.
  • edited August 2016
    Saving, closing and opening again did the trick. So map out the area first, then populate. Awesome! ^^

    Any fancy tips on making dirt paths? Trying to do it by drawing two lines, and colouring the bits in the middle... But no dice =/

    [EDIT] Never mind, I totally just figured out a solution! ^^

    [EDIT, EDIT] I spoke too soon. My roads are disappearing through my grass... How do I combat that? Keep trying the "bring in front" buttons, but not a lot happens.
  • AEIOUAEIOU Newcomer
    Do a forum search on SHEETS and LAYERS for advice on the roads disappearing and how to stack different objects. This is a key concept of the program so it's worth spending some time learning it in detail.
  • Sheets and Layers. Shiny!
    Once again, thanks a bunch ^^
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    And, as Jim pointed out, which symbols show up when you click a catalog button depends on the template you're using. When you start a map, you'll typically go through the New Map Wizard. After you select "Dungeon", select the "Choose settings for myself" option. If you have the SS4 Dungeons of Schley installed, you should see that listed as an option. The SS4 symbols will then be the default symbols when you click the catalog buttons.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag

    Also, if you don't know, ProFantasy is a very tiny company too; they're just very active with development and with the community.
  • we've got some good eggs here.....always helpful, always giving advice or suggestions, and always challenging each other to keep creating better maps. I love these guys :) Welcome to the Forum!!!
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    I've been on lots of forums for far more expensive software, and never yet found one that's even half as responsive,friendly and helpful as PF. There's just the right balance of technical knowhow and encouraging banter here. Welcome :)
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    With the kind of cartography that you want to do, it's really time that someone tells you to go and get the "Tome of Ultimate Mapping" from the ProFantasy web site. We'll all chip in when there's a question that we can answer, but response time can be a bit frustrating at time. Once you have the Tome, you can have the answer to almost everything immediately.
  • edited August 2016
    Posted By: VintyriWith the kind of cartography that you want to do, it's really time that someone tells you to go and get the "Tome of Ultimate Mapping" from the ProFantasy web site. We'll all chip in when there's a question that we can answer, but response time can be a bit frustrating at time. Once you have the Tome, you can have the answer to almost everything immediately.
    Ooh, now that is shiny!

    I made a knock up of the southern barracks from Candle Keep as a test run. Step two will be to start from scratch and use layers this time.
    Then moving on to understanding lighting.

    Also trying to figure out how to do a black outline around the grass borders, to keep the cartoon style... But I think I can do that by putting it on a raised layer, and adding a tiny shadow to the edges. I'll experiment and see what goes :D

    Thanks a ton for the Tome, that'll absolutey come in handy! ^^
  • Not bad for a first map! I like it!

    Vintyri beat me to the punch on the Tome, I was going to suggest that myself!

    And these forums are very active, most of us are customers, just like you, but the creators take part in this site as well. There are a lot of interesting and fantastic mappers here, and very friendly as well.

    When you get a free moment, you might want to check out the Support Resourses thread, and the Interesting, Important, and Helpful topics thread. There is some really cool stuff in there that can help cut down on your learning time. :)

    Welcome to Profantasy!!!
  • Nice first map! Ladiestorm is right, this forum is pretty active compared to some others I've been to. Occasionally it will slow down but it always seems to pick right back up again. I think you will enjoy it here.

    Welcome
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