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Lighting interactions questions (CC3+)

kmunozkmunoz Newcomer
in Mapping with ProFantasy's Software
Can someone explain better than the TOUM how lighting effects on different sheets interact with one another?

I have three sheets that are taking/starting lights:

LIGHTS
SYMBOLS
WALLS

In that order.

The LIGHTS sheet has the light entities. The WALLS sheet has a Point Light Setup (distance 0) and a Point Light Finalize, as per the TOUM. The SYMBOLS sheet has another Point Light Setup (distance 5) and Point Light Finalize.

If I turn everything on as is, it... sort of works. Everything has the correct shadows but the symbols themselves are enormously bright; far brighter than the surrounding floors.

If I turn OFF the symbol light effects, the symbols have the correct brightness but they do not cast shadows.

If I move the SYMBOLS sheet below WALLS, they're still enormously bright AND they don't cast shadows anymore.

If I turn OFF the Finalize effect on the SYMBOLS sheet, everything seems to work, but TOUM implies that this isn't best practices - that you should Finalize for every group of layers that are using the same Setup. And since SYMBOLS and WALLS are using different Setups, it seems according to TOUM I should have Finalizes for both. But that seems to be the only way to get things to work the way I want.

I used to know how to do this...back when I had the old lighting annual for CC3. And the TOUM isn't very explanatory, so I can't figure out exactly what is happening, so I can fix it.

And a somewhat related question: TOUM suggests using a mask sheet for the background. How do I accomplish this? I'm assuming I need to copy the BACKGROUND sheet and carve out the floors. Is there an easy way to do this? Or should I be doing it differently?

And finally: I recall there was a way to have an ambient minimum light but I can't find it.

(This was all a lot more sensible when I could use the lights annual...)
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Comments

  • kmunozkmunoz Newcomer
    Okay I think I figured out most of it. I was probably misreading TOUM. (I don't have access right now to the sample maps, which aren't on my laptop, and I was incorrectly arranging the sheets in my head.)

    I'm still trying to figure out:

    1) A good way to make a mask for the background

    2) How to make an ambient light to keep the unlit portions of the map from being completely black.
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  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    edited August 2016
    1) The shadows tutorial starting on page 223 of the Tome explains how to make this mask. It is basically done by multipolying together a copy of your background with a copy of your outer walls (or floors)

    2) There is no direct way to do this. Creating the mask from the background and place it near the top is a good way to ensure this is not obscured, the same can be done with other elements. Otherwise, you can also create weak lights with a large radius to light up such areas of the map


    I'll see what I can do with the explanations in the Tome. Any suggestions are always welcome.
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  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    edited August 2016
    Among other things, kmunoz wrote:I'm still trying to figure out:

    2) How to make an ambient light to keep the unlit portions of the map from being completely black.
    I had this same problem but sort of in reverse. You can adjust the ambient light via the Global Sun setting. Right-click the Sheets and Effects button, then select Global Sun from the pop-up menu.

    See this discussion here for examples of how this can affect the map.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
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  • kmunozkmunoz Newcomer
    Posted By: Monsen1) The shadows tutorial starting on page 223 of the Tome explains how to make this mask. It is basically done by multipolying together a copy of your background with a copy of your outer walls (or floors)

    I'll see what I can do with the explanations in the Tome. Any suggestions are always welcome.
    I'll look at the multipoly tutorial. I figured I needed to do something like that but couldn't think of the term off the top of my head, which meant I couldn't find it in the program.

    The explanation in the Tome wasn't bad, it was just a little unclear. In part it's because each tutorial assumes you've read every preceding one, but in my case, I'm dropping in here and there to learn specific tasks. The part where I got tripped up was in step 9-10, where you add the point light setup and finalize. Because I had incorrectly assumed the SYMBOLS sheet was above the WALLS sheet (because I didn't have the example map in front of me), the tutorial read as if you needed a Finalize on each sheet if each sheet has different Setups. But that's obviously not the case: WALLS is above SYMBOLS, and so WALLS has the Finalize because it's the last sheet with lighting effects. There might be a way to make it a little clearer that Finalize is only needed once regardless of how many different Setups you have, as long as you're not skipping sheets.

    Dogtag: For some reason changing Global Sun values didn't seem to adjust ambient light level, but I'll play with it again, as I checked that long before I was working on the lights and probably wasn't using the lighting effects correctly.
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  • kmunozkmunoz Newcomer
    Posted By: Dogtag
    Among other things,kmunozwrote:I'm still trying to figure out:

    2) How to make an ambient light to keep the unlit portions of the map from being completely black.
    I had this same problem but sort of in reverse. You can adjust the ambient light via theGlobal Sunsetting. Right-click theSheets and Effectsbutton, then selectGlobal Sunfrom the pop-up menu.

    Seethis discussion herefor examples of how this can affect the map.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
    Ah yeah, I was looking at it wrong. I was adjusting Intensity when I should have been adjusting Transparency.
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  • kmunozkmunoz Newcomer
    Posted By: Monsen1) The shadows tutorial starting on page 223 of the Tome explains how to make this mask. It is basically done by multipolying together a copy of your background with a copy of your outer walls (or floors)
    Unfortunately that doesn't work with a lot of automated maps (like floorplan maps taken from CD3), because the walls protrude past the floors, and the walls aren't closed loops, so they can't be multipolied. (And if you do close them, and then add doors, you end up with black spots just outside those doors where the mask doesn't quite meet.) What I've done instead is put lights outside the map, over the background, to illuminate the background more or less uniformly. That seems to work well enough.
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