Need a little help with my newest project - Soulburn Castle

My next mapping project is to map out a castle... With 2 floors above ground, 1 dungeon floor underneath, on a low 'mesa' or cliff, complete with a moat. I want to go big, and create an outer wall with the castle inside...similar to Helms Deep from Lord of the Rings(just not up against the side of a mountain).

I know how to do it...I can set it up similar to my tavern, with one large room, then set smaller rooms inside it. That's how I made the kitchen, and storage rooms below in my tavern.

But I also don't know how to do it...because the floor+wall drawing tool requires angular rooms. Even the polygon drawing too requires straight edges and angles. But I'm attempting to create an outer walled room that follows the curve of the land it's sitting on. No angles.

I tried hand drawing it, following the curve of the land...I ended up with some weird nodes, especially when I tried to connect to the first corner. It was a nightmare trying to edit those nodes so that it would connect correctly.

I was originally planning on using some Dundjinni connecting symbols that would make a perfect outer wall. But again, all straight lines and 90 degree angles. There are some that curve...but they are fairly short, and don't look right.

So my question is this. How do I make walls that curve and circle unevenly?

Comments

  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    When I get the money back that I need to get it (I loaned it to a friend), I'm going to buy this software. Until then, I have no idea what you mean, because I only have FT3 and CC3 right now. Sorry.

    Don't suppose you could upload a picture of the thing gone wrong, could you? I might be able to help if I can only see what's wrong :)
  • edited June 2016
    I do A LOT of my work in CC3, not CC3+ because I have all the annuals and they are just soooooooo full of great stuff. Profantasy has been working on getting them available on CC3+, but i don't see that much improvement in the newer program that makes it worth giving up all my annuals, so i just stick with CC3....Anyway, there is one, the Castle Walls Issue 46 that you can "add on" a room, and make castle walls. I tried the commands on my CC3+ program and it doesn't seem to work. Contact Ralf and see if you can use those commands....DBLA (Double Arc - which serves as the outer curved wall - see below image). Or......you can to what i did for my castle walls, make circular rooms and connect them with corridors. Hope some of this is actually HELPFUL :)
  • That's sort of helpful...it at least points me in the right direction. I didn't think to use corridors to make the walls. That might actually help me.

    Sue, I already erased.it to start.over... Plus, I can't get my laptop online right now (I'm on my cell phone). But Lorelei may have given me what I need to make so.ething work. :)
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    edited June 2016
    You can edit the drawing tools or, better yet, create new drawing tools based on existing ones. I created this wall in just a few seconds by quickly creating a new curved wall tool from the default wall tool.

    (Click the image for a larger version)
    image

    Check out p.88 of the CC3+ User Manual (p.70 of the CC3 User Manual) or p.118 of the Tome of Ultimate Mapping for instructions on how to edit or create drawing tools.

    I hope that helps.

    Cheers,
    ~Dogtag
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    Posted By: DogtagI created this wall in just a few seconds by quickly creating a new curved wall tool from the default wall tool.
    No criticism of you or your work intended here, but this method has a serious flaw. The bricks or building stones line up in a manner that is not at all credible.
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    When we began creating our Jörðgarð campaign setting a dozen years ago or so, I started studying genuine medieval structures in Germany, Austria, Bohemia, Hungary, Lichtenstein and Switzerland. I saw an incredible number of fortress castles ... as is quite visible in our Jörðgarð material ... and one thing that surprised me is that curved walls, except for towers, are rare. They do exist, but examples of curved walls in a fortress castle are few and far between.

    As in your project, the builders had to follow the lay of the land. Whenever they hit a turning point, they usually turned the straight wall in another direction. Where those turns occurred, they also created an excellent observation point for guards atop the wall, so they usually built a tower or the like there upon the turn. This makes using the Dundjinni symbols that you mentioned easy, fast and ideal to implement while at the same time reproducing a 100% credible prototype of the real world replicas.
    wall.png 810.5K
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    The Feste Marienberg (St. Mary's Mountain Fortress) with its double wall atop the steep vineyards above the Main River in Würzburg. There's not a single curve in either wall. For wine drinkers: The vineyard is the Würzburger Innere Leiste, one of the five top world class wines grown in Franken (Franconia) in Northern Bavaria.
  • LoopysueLoopysue ProFantasy 🖼️ 40 images Cartographer
    edited June 2016
    I know where the desire to do curvy walls might have originated. This is Corfe Castle; a 'motte and bailey' castle that was built almost a thousand years ago by William the Conqueror in Dorset, England. The outer wall does exactly what LadieStorm has described - it curves to follow the contours of a very steep sided little hill that fills a gap in the chalk ridge that slices across the south of England. If the Parliamentarians had not 'slighted' it in 1645 (demolished it out of pure spite after the fact - for being the last Royalist stronghold in the south of England) it would still be complete.

    Lady Mary Bankes held the castle for an astonishing 3 years during the war, while her husband was called to the side of the king in the north, and she did it initially with only 80 of the village men at her disposal. The defenders suffered only 2 losses during the first siege, while 100 of a 600 strong parliamentarian force fell during their repeated assaults on the outer walls. Unfortunately for Mary she was eventually betrayed by one of her own, and she was forced to surrender the castle after the enemy attacked from both the outside, and the inside three years later, in the final assault that ended a second much longer siege. The lady and her daughters were allowed to leave unharmed with respect for the courage and heroism she had shown 'beyond the call of her sex'.

    The outer wall of the castle is kinked and curved to follow the contours. The only thing I would hasten to point out, is that the curves only exist because they must, in order to follow the contour. Please note how none of them are very pronounced.
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    edited June 2016
    Posted By: VintyriNo criticism of you or your work intended here, but this method has a serious flaw. The bricks or building stones line up in a manner that is not at all credible.
    True, but then I don't intend to use it in a map. I was simply pointing out to the OP that you can create and edit drawing tools to create curved walls if you want them. I was just focusing on the curve, not the fill. Naturally, you can change the fill to something less dependent on orientation, like a stone fill, or choose a different wall tool to use as a base to begin with, before making your changes.
  • Well, what I ended up doing was creating straight boxy lines that is slightly irregular, and Mark, I used the same wall units you have in your image. I'm still not completely satisified with it... I may modify it, but... it took a lot of time to get it the way it is... so I will have to decide that later.

    My first image is up, so I'm hoping you will check it out... Skeaulvradkt Kiondju (Soulburn Castle)
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    Posted By: LadieStormMy first image is up, so I'm hoping you will check it out... Skeaulvradkt Kiondju (Soulburn Castle)
    Ummm ... where is it up?
  • Both here, and at the guild. Skeaulvradkt Kiondju(Soulburn Castle)
  • VintyriVintyri Newcomer
    Posted By: LadieStormBoth here, and at the guild. Skeaulvradkt Kiondju(Soulburn Castle)
    Sorry. I didn't notice that you were running two separate threads on this. I've already made comments on the CG site.
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