Drawing cave systems

There are a lot of problems with cave systems, like backgrounds, fills, multipolies, branching tunnels, establishing visual constrast, etc. Did anyone try this with CC2 Pro? I am looking for someone with experience with doing this in CC2 Pro. My computer will not handle CC3.

Sincerely,

Sorpaw

Comments

  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    I should have said "does not play well with CC3" rather than "my computer will not handle CC3. The original plan I am trying to update was created in CC2 Pro. I knew there was a reason that I stayed away from caves...
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    Here is a jpeg of the cave system. Any ideas? I would really like to add a tint to the background. Problem - this is an already existing plan; it cannot be redrawn from scratch.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    How are the polygons in that map? From that zoom level, everything looks rather connected, but it is difficult to say from just an image. Are all the caves on single large polygon, or are there multiple polygons in play here, or perhaps everything is open paths?

    To add a background, the caves should ideally be polygons, since these can be filled and overlaid the background, which means that you can draw the background as a huge simple rectangle behind the cave system. Otherwise, the background poly would need to follow the outline of your caves, which is a hassle. The drawing tools do have a trace functionality which makes this possible though, enabling you to draw a polygon that precisely follows existing lines in your drawing.
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    I believe that there are multiple polygons in this map; there may be (unrealized) open paths. It was created using the CAVES function of CC2 Pro/DD2 Pro. Filling the background requires that the polygons not leak, correct? How do I tell? Have you ever used the trace functionality in the past? I have not. How is this done? I really do not look forward to trying to redraw this thing. I thought that I might be able to draw a colored polygon behind the caves; unfortunately for me, the colored polygon does not see the difference between the inside of the cave and the outside, making them the same color. No contrast. I also thought that the "Custom Tools" might help - I have not found a way out of this yet.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    edited January 2013
    Well, by definition, if they are polygons, they don't leak. A polygon is a closed path with no gaps. Leakage is only a problem with multipolies. However, looking at your design, you have extremely few places where you need to "punch a hole" through the floor to see the background (I.e. interior walls in the middle of a cave), so it looks like you might not need to use multipolies at all.
    If the caves were drawn with the cave tools, they should already be polygons, so it might be as simple as changing the width of your caves to zero (entities with a zero width are filled entities, entites with a non-zero width have only a filled border the size of the width, and no fill), and optionally changing the fill style to a solid color, then finally add a background behind the caves.

    But all of this is just speculations without knowing the details about the entities. Maybe if you were could post your .fcw file here, we could have a closer look at the entities in the map.
  • SorpawSorpaw Newcomer
    I have tried to post the.fcw file 5 times. Is there a reason that I am not allowed to post an .fcw file? I am informed that the file is both empty (it is not) and that I am not allowed to upload the requested file type.
  • RalfRalf Administrator, ProFantasy 🖼️ 18 images Mapmaker
    Unfortunately the file will be too large ... the one you sent me is more than 3Mb in size, larger than the forum settings allow. I've posted it here.

    The problem is that the lines are not contiguous paths - they are a multitude of invidual lines, with many of them doubled up (double entities). Unfortunately I don't see a way to recover these withiut major effort and make a multipoly out of it. My suggestions is to redraw the caves using proper poylgons (e.g. with the DD3 drawing tools).
  • DogtagDogtag Moderator, Betatester Traveler
    One way to make that job at least a little easier is to export it as an image (which I imagine you did to post it here). Then, in a new map, create a "TRACE" layer and import the image. Then you can trace over it. I recommend, if you do that, to use a bright red or blue color for your lines initially, while you trace. You can easily change the color later but it will make it much easier to track what you've traced if the colors are wildly different.

    ~Dogtag
  • Thanks, folks. I kept hoping that there was an answer short of "redraw the whole thing"! In the short term I may need to amputate the cave system in order to use it later. I will try the tracing option (although I have not tried to "Trace" before). How is the trace thing done? Where do you start?
  • Is there a way to use "endpoint" on a cave wall. I want to make connecting passages, but I want them to whole with regard to multipolies. "Intersection" shortcuts do not seem to work on caves. If I want to amputate the cave system I posted, I will need reliable way to make a join where the cave wall meets the access passage.
  • How do you import .fcw files into GIMP?
  • Hi Sorpaw,

    GIMP is a bitmap image manipulation program which is not able to directly import .fcw files, as far as I know. The .fcw file format rather is vector-based, because Campaign Cartographer is more a CAD software, which GIMP is not.

    So, in short, I guess if you want to get a map from CC into GIMP, you'll need to export it from CC as a bitmap file (JPEG, PNG, TIF) and then open it as an image in GIMP.

    Nils
  • Thanks, Nils.

    I have exported it to a .bmp file (which I think that I posted) but manipulating the image seems to be the problem. Opening it does not seem to be an issue. The immediate problem is WHAT THEN? All I want to do is tint the background for contrast purposes. Is there an easy way to do this, that you know of?

    Sorpaw
  • Oops, sorry Nils! It was a .jpeg file not a .bmp! My mistake!

    Sorpaw
  • Hej,

    ok, so I read the whole thread now and I think I understand. ;-)

    If you want to modify the background of the map without redrawing the whole thing in CC, you could indeed turn to GIMP (or any other image manipulation program, just as Monsen said in this thread. (Maybe the threads could be combined to avoid double postings?)

    As Monsen said over there, you can use the flood fill to change the areas outside of the cave system with a different color or pattern. What I just tried on a small area of the image is to select the background with the magic wand tool (selection based on pixel color) and remove the selection (middle panel - the checker board means that there is nothing there but transparency). I then added a new layer below the cave, and completely filled it with a different color that only shows where the top layer is transparent.

    Whatever approach you take, I guess the main part will be to make sure that there are no holes in the walls, as Monsen said, because either flood filling or selecting with the magic wand depends on closed areas. In any case, have a look at the documentation over at the GIMP website, you will find lots of info there.

    Nils
  • Terve, Nils!

    I will give it a go and try what you and Monsen mention - I'll let you know how it goes. This is just one of three cave systems in this location (below ground) as well as a manor of at least four floors and full grounds. The grounds are a joy - paths, formal gardens, out buildings, etc.. (think large French or English estate). It has kept me busy updating old plans.

    Sorpaw
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