Modern interface revamp in the future?

Hello,

I have used both CC2 and CC3. You can build some very detailed maps with this software.

The interface design, functionality and feel is at least 15 years old. There are much better solutions in today's interface design.

Are there any plans in the future for an interface revamp? Maybe for CC 4? *crosses fingers*

It would be awesome to see this program with a modern interface.

Comments

  • The interface is based on the engine that runs it, FastCAD, a Computer Aided Design program.

    You can alter the mnu files to move things around and add menu selections.
  • edited May 2010
    Yeah, I know it is based on a CAD program. Which gives me the gut feeling the interface will not change.

    That gut feeling aside, I was just curious if they were thinking of updating the interface to be a bit more intuitive and give it a more modern feel.
  • edited May 2010
    Not only that but the software would hit a MUCH larger audience if the programs behaved like Photoshop or other paint programs. Just because it started as a CAD program doesn't mean it can't have an interface like Photoshop and have the power and features it does today. It's very clunky and not intuitive the way it works today. I would be willing to bet many people try CC3 but give up due to the high learning curve. Many more people use programs like Photoshop (name your paint program) than CAD programs.

    Just my 2 cents.
  • Well, it isn't a paint program. So of course trhe methods to do things are different.
  • MonsenMonsen Administrator 🖼️ 81 images Cartographer
    If you have specific suggestions for improvements, I am sure ProFantasy would like to hear them so that they could consider them. They do listen to their users, and will implement stuff if they find it a good suggestion, and possible to implement. Some improvements are difficult because of the underlying CAD engine, but other improvements only require someone to think of them.

    I never understand why people want it to work more like Photoshop though. The main reason I strongly dislike Photoshop is because it is so difficult and un-intuitive to use. I've always found CC3 (and CC2 before it) to be simplicity itself compared to Photoshop (Simplicity in terms of difficult to use, not in terms of what it can do and the power of it's tools). Personally, I love the ease of use and powers the CAD engine provides.
  • jaerdaphjaerdaph Traveler
    I definitely prefer a CAD based interface for mapping to something like a Photoshop (or GIMP). That said, I think some improvements probably could be made to the CC3 interface. But if the program ceased being CAD based (which provides a lot of options and power not available in Photoshop or GIMP), it would lose its appeal. I mean, if I wanted Photoshop, I'd just use it instead (or more likely, a free alternative like GIMP). :)

    Don't get me wrong, I really like GIMP and Photoshop, but there is a lot I can't do with those programs as easily as I can in CAD based CC3. They do have their good features, though, and seeing things from them like Sheet Effects in CC3 is awesome. But at the end of the day, I want a CAD engine, not a bitmap editor/manipulator.
  • 11 days later
  • IMHO the real problem I see is not in the way the CC3 engine / interface works but in the .NET 1.1 libraries used for the GUI. They are actually drowning the whole product. I would really be happy if CC3 developers would change the GUI elements to use .NET 3 library or any other _present_ widget library. At least to make it more compatible with present Windows version.
    BTW: Did You know .NET 1 is officially _not_ supported on Windows 7?
  • I remember .net is being removed from CC3. Sounds like a good idea to me.
  • jslaytonjslayton Moderator, ProFantasy Mapmaker
    I vaguely recall that the .NET things were in the older version of the product installer, not in the user interface for the CCx products. The underlying engine for Windows long predates the appearance of the .NET platform.
  • RalfRalf Administrator, ProFantasy 🖼️ 18 images Mapmaker
    The .Net requirement indeed only affected the installers. It has been removed from all current ones.
  • LatharionLatharion Traveler
    It appears that some people mistake CC3 for a paint or photo editing product. CC3 is a mapping program first and formost. The logical platform on which the best mapping programs have been based are on CAD platforms. Paint programs are great at what they do, but they cannot, and will not ever, be able to say, accurately note distance, or accurately plot features. CAD features are so far removed from paint features that they require a totally different way of approaching the program. To quote the CC3 manual "Clear your mind". This includes everything we know about windows conventions. I hope people will take the time to learn how a CAD interface works, because it is very efficient for that particular system. CC3 has a fairly steep learning curve, but the payoff is worth the hassle.
  • Dear Latharion, I do not argue about the way the CC3 works! I am completely (well, almost) happy with its "CAD-feel-and-work" and I've been able to create some really nice maps and I don't think the "Photoshop-way" would have helped me much.
    The only think I really don't like about it is the "look" of the GUI and its configurability. From many of present SW I am used to be able to change the layout and/or arrangement of the controls the way I like it. This definitely goes for toolbars but it goes for other control elements as well. I know I can change it (the toolbars) by text-editing its config files, but...
    Hopefully You know what I mean. The present GUI is just so.... (looing for proper word in english)... stoned, obsoleted...
    I'd be really happy if ProFantasy brought us a new version of the great CCx with revamped GUI - using the best of present GUI widget possibilities but standing still on its "CAD-way-of-work".
  • LatharionLatharion Traveler
    Are you saying that you wish for a more user-friendly way to customize the toolbars and such? If so, then yes, I absolutely agree with you. Editing a text file gets the job done, but it is defintely not eligant, nor user friendly. The layout of the GUI at it's default is o.k., but not the very best it could be. The command structure, however is great (in fact, when working in photoshop, I often miss tidbits like "Do It" or "And and Not" selection etc...) The only real complaint I've maintained throughout the latest CC incarnation is the loss of the large toolbar icons. Sadly, the people at Profantasy have stated that large icons are not a high priority item, and to not expect it to be done. Profantasy is a small company with a limited number of employees and resources, so the developers must choose what parts of CC3 they can afford to devote resources to and what parts must, sadly, be left unfinished (for example, an updated Tome of Ultimate Mapping).

    Perhaps a little resource expenditure in making a user-friendly interface for customizing the toolbars and whatnot would pay off in opening more free time and resources for them later when they need not alter the interface again. Perhaps then if users express displeasure with the default interface, it would be a very simple matter for them to simply point to the easy customization widget and invite the users to have fun.

    FYI, almost every facet of CC3 is customizable, although it does take a lot of investigation, reading, time, work, and even some archaic rituals involving candles, arcane symbols, strange powders, and other stuff (well o.k., maybe not the ritual part ;P ) The process is, however pretty daunting for a novice, and can even be intimidating for a seasoned user.
  • Yes, You got the point and I cannot agree more with the things about the text shortcuts etc. ;)
    Nevertheless - simply, the present GUI is quite inflexible and asks for remake (did I mention such achievments like scrolling and/or zooming with mouse wheel etc.? ;) ).
    BTW: I dare to guess that some of the crashes of the program are based in an outdated/unsupported calls for some GUI routines (**Dron is crouching in a dark to avoid the thunderbolt coming from CC3 developers ** ;) )

    On the other hand - when saying "every facet of CC3 is customizable" - do You know how to add a new symbol catalog setting to a list of "symbol catalogs settings? Ie: When I go to menu "Symbol -> Symbol Settings" I get a window (Select catalong setting) with a list of included symbol catalogs. Is it possible to add a new catalog? And I mean - other then adding every new catalog by hand using the "Catalog setting specification" from the "advanced" part of the Window.
    The point is to add all the CSUAC catalogs to the list in some batch or other "automatic" way. There's plenty of them (the CSUAC sym. catalogs) and I would really hate to do it every time I need to reainstall the machine or install the CC3 on other system...
  • LatharionLatharion Traveler
    Yes, it is possible. To accomplish this, open the Symbol -> Symbol Settings window, then select "Advanced". Under "Catalog settings specifications" select "New" and enter the appropriate info (the window will have options for you to select). Once that is entered, select the new catalog setting, and then select "Browse" located under "Symbol catalog file" and then navigate to the symbol file you want. Select save and you have just created a new catalog setting.
  • Simon RogersSimon Rogers Administrator, ProFantasy Traveler
    irongamer, by all means share your suggestions here, however outlandish or unlikely they might be. We will read them.
  • Posted By: LatharionYes, it is possible. To accomplish this, open the Symbol -> Symbol Settings window, then select "Advanced". Under "Catalog settings specifications" select "New" and enter the appropriate info (the window will have options for you to select). Once that is entered, select the new catalog setting, and then select "Browse" located under "Symbol catalog file" and then navigate to the symbol file you want. Select save and you have just created a new catalog setting.
    Please note that I asked for some "batch" way of doing this (or possibly by text config editing).
    I know of the way You've desribed - I actually wrote "...other then adding every new catalog by hand using the "Catalog setting specification" from the "advanced" part of the Window." ;) Try to use this procedure for tens of catalogs...
    Nevermind - this is definitely off-topic here ;)
  • LatharionLatharion Traveler
    Erm... ooooookay?!? Well, to answer your question, no there is not an "easy" way to do that. The settings are stored in the Windows Registry, and are stored in hex form (ask Simon why, because I haven't a clue).
  • edited June 2010
    ...The settings are stored in the Windows Registry, and are stored in hex form (ask Simon why, because I haven't a clue).
    Hmm. Not good. I was afraid of that. :(
    But thanks for the hint. I found it finally in "HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\EvolutionComputing\CampaignCartographer3\XP\PKData\XPCC2\SymIcon Styles" - a pretty tricky place but at least I can back it up now...
  • LatharionLatharion Traveler
    Evolution Computing is the company that created FastCAD, the software on which CC3 is based.
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