Question re scale.
jmabbott
🖼️ 39 images Mapmaker
Hi All,
Overland and city maps do my head in re scale.
For my latest commission I have to do a city map. The author has provided a sketch of the basic layout which is not drawn to scale, so I can't really cheat there (which is why I prefer dungeon maps! 1sq is either 5 or 10ft, couldn't be easier.). This is for my Egyptian themed commission. The town sits on the banks of a major river and is home to about 5000 people. There is a large church on a low hill which is a major feature. The town features a dock area, is a centre of trade and has farms outside the walls.
What would be a good size map for this town?
I'm using the Fantasy Cities Annual style.
Comments
I think you mean map units, not scale. All city maps are the same scale - which happens to be the same scale as a dungeon map - 1 foot to one map unit.
As to the correct size, you will probably be a week or so discussing that one with everyone else, because the size of a city is only party dictated by the size of the population. If space is cramped cities are also cramped and tend to have more taller buildings than a city with the same population built in the middle of a vast plain. There are also cultural issues to consider. What is the accepted maximum number of families per household. In the UK just a couple of hundred years ago at the dawn of the Industrial age it was quite normal for 2-3 entire families to live in a single room of a multi-level building where they had come in from the country to find work in the new factories. These days people would gasp in horror at the very idea of it. We live very insular lives, and there are many who live as single adults with a whole flat to themselves.
There are many other considerations, but you get the idea. It's very much up to you how big you make the city, but useful to count each building by how many people you would expect to be living in it.
Thanks @Loopysue.
I guess, it is kind of like asking 'how long is a piece of string?' and the answer is always, 'that depends...'
The sketch is drawn on graph paper at 42 x 32 squares and I was initially thinking 20ft per square but that just doesn't seem big enough to me, hence my question. I think I'll double it and make the map 1680x1320. That will allow me some room for a key as well and keeps things more or less in the preferred ratio of 1:0.8.
One way you could approach it is to decide the size of the average house. A medieval or earlier house for commoners were usually a tiny affair, often no bigger than my living room. Then, based on your house size, so you can used that against the sketch to determine size.
Thanks @Monsen.
A "standard" modern two bedroom cottage is about 20-25ft wide and 30-35ft long, so that is why I was thinking 20ft per square would be a good size. The only problem with that is it would not leave much room for the temple, shrines, docks, markets and farmland. I've got the map set up at the above size (after a few false starts last night by the time I got the walls laid down it was time for bed!) so I'll do a test with the random street tool to see how it looks.
I may need to go in the middle and make the size 1260 x 960.
Or, you could just draw the map first (minus the dead giveaway scale items like trees and such), and then scale it down by eye. That way the map is 'finished already'. You just need to agree the scale with the client - who maybe should be the one to be left with the headache anyway?
@Loopysue I intend to but I've got to start from a reasonable base assumption first and i don't particularly want to be spending hours redoing stuff?
In a situation like this, and having to work by the clock, I would probably pass the buck back to the client and get a definitive answer. That way, I don't have to spend any time worrying about it at all.
Alexandria was about 1.5 x 1.5 miles (5.3 square miles) when the population was around 300,000. I think.
@Maidhc O Casain Thanks for that. I've got the Ok from the publisher to be fairly fluid with the size, so I'll try as above and see if it looks right.
If the setting is meant to be ancient Egyptian or thereabouts, medieval Europe may not be the best comparison. Realistically, if the folks you're mapping for are trying to recreate such a setting, they should have done/be doing at least some basic historical/archaeological research first, before attempting any sketch drawings. These are a couple of very basic links that might help if you're having to try to do some of this work yourself:
and:
The second link has a lot of links to other sites which may also be of use.
Good luck!
@Wyvern Thanks for that. I think the author may have done some research, his population figure of 5000 seems about right. And it would appear that whilst most houses were two storey, each building was home to a single family unit. I didn't read further about family sizes and whether or not they were extended families; i.e. multi-generational.
I'll carry on as per my WIP thread for this commission.
Yes, of course I only realised you were posting the map in a different thread some while after I'd added my notes here!
Population numbers could be whatever's required, though the key elements, as others have noted here already, are how many people would be in a given dwelling, and of what size.
While it's something of an aside to the Egyptian-style settlement here, it is still relevant to the overall scaling topic. I finally got round to having a proper examination of the relatively recent D&D book, Icewind Dale: Rime of the Frostmaiden, earlier today. For those unfamiliar with the setting, there's an area in that region known as Ten Towns (guessed why yet?). This new supplement has a map for each place, and a description which includes the population. The housing is VERY generous, as the average building size is around 100 feet long, whereas the circa 30-foot-plus outbuildings would really seem more likely for an impoverished location like the Ten Towns area. Plus after a few quick counts and estimates, it looks like there's at least one building this size for at least two-thirds of each place's population total. Again, by medieval standards, this is exceptionally generous. So maybe in a fantasy setting, there's an acceptance you can get away with whatever you prefer!
TBH, I think comes down more to aesthetics than realism...particularly in RPG products.
The example cities in D&D's 3.5E Cityscape (the inspiration for the Fantasy Cities Annual style) are bloody huge.